On the subject of Kahrs.....Slide release

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baddarryl

New member
Hi all. I have a CM9 that has been flawless. Probably 400+ rounds through it. I don't like that it prefers to chamber a round from slide lock rather than sling shot. Does this worry anyone else? As I said it has never malfunctioned, but does jamb and need a tap if I forget to use slide lock when loading a mag which is kind of a pain if you think about it. The only gripe I have with this otherwise fine pistol.

Makes me think it must be a fine line between function and malfunction under normal use. Not sure I like that idea.
 
I had a CM9 and it was a decent pistol

The slide stop on the Kahr with the exposed spring is a STUPID design

There are some DIY changes you can make to the follower to get it to
function like other guns

do a youtube
 
Why the focus on "slingshot"?

Any method of releasing the slide can be a problem. It was long argued that using the slide release was a "fine motor skill" while doing the slingshot or hand-over method was not. In fact, any of those methods require fine-motors skills, because the sling-shot or hand-over method requires a CLEAN release.

An acquaintance who was then working as an instructor with Special Ops troops at Ft. Bragg, said that pressing the slide-release was the method now used in their training and drills-- and it wasn't a practice limited to the "specialists". He said the U.S. military changed its training after it became clear that many folks in combat were having problems with failures to go into battery using the sling-shot method. The problem was arguably made worse by the fact that many soldiers in combat wore gloves, appropriate for the conditions and HOT weapons. Those handgun "stoppages" resulted in time wasted getting going again and sometimes also meant a round lost when the stoppage was corrected by doing a clearance drill. It seems to be less of a problem now that the practice is in place.

If you use your OFF HAND to release the slide, as the final step of loading the magazine, the slide release approach can actually be quicker, and you can use two or three fingers to find and depress the lever...

Every gun you use can have quirks and eccentricities. I've had two Kahrs [P-8 and CM9] and have no complaints. (I'm currently carrying a Kel-Tec PF9 now, but will eventually go back to my preferred Kahr P8. I gave up my P8 when someone made me an offer that was a lot more than I paid for it.
 
I currently own three Kahrs. The P380 and MK9 both demand use of the slide stop to chamber the first round but my P45 works just fine using the slingshot method. Maybe it's larger size has something to do with it.
 
My Kahr has been a nightmare in just about every respect, but using the slide stop to chamber the first round hasn't caused any problems (to the contrary, it's about the only action that the gun can consistently execute without trouble), and it's not something that bothers me.
 
Walt-- I don't really focus on the slingshot, but I do use both depending on which gun I am using. I often run into it when loading 6+1. Load a round, drop the mag, add one to the mag and reinsert. It is this process where it seems like a pain to engage the slide lock on purpose.

Besides a minor irritation I guess it is no biggie. I was just wondering if it is that close of a tolerance how much more would it take to be malfunction prone. My feeling is not much, but as I said, so far it has been flawless. Just a concern I guess.
 
I don't like that it prefers to chamber a round from slide lock rather than sling shot. Does this worry anyone else?
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I use my off hand to work the slide on my CM9 just like all my other semi-autos. I've never needed to use the slide release to chamber a round (despite the instructions in the Kahr manual).

I can see where using the slide release may be easier for some, considering how heavy the recoil spring is on these pistols.

The slide stop on the Kahr with the exposed spring is a STUPID design
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It's really no more stupid than the flimsy slide stop and ridiculously weak spring used by the Glock design. For years this has been a design weakness and point of failure that Glock refuses to address.
 
I never know what the big deal is about which way you release a slide. I use the slide stop, and always have. It has never caused any issues whatsoever, in any gun I've owned. I have a PM9 and it functions fine like it always has. Don't worry about it.
 
Lots of Kahr owner know, if you slingshoot the slide to load, then do so aggressively. Rack and let go! If you ride it, the failure rate climbs, the same with many pistols. All of my Kahrs load both ways.
 
My Kahr's (I've got two now, have owned a total of about 5) would all load from a slingshot, but (as PSP stated) it had to be done aggressively.

I think Kahr warns people not to do it not because the pistol can't, but because most people can't. It's a small gun with fairly heavy springs.


Larry
 
I think some people don't like this requirement because some people carry without a round in the chamber.

Some people really don't care if others think this is a bad decision. :)
 
I think some people don't like this requirement because some people carry without a round in the chamber.

Some people really don't care if others think this is a bad decision.
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A) it is not a requirement: I always slingshot the 1st round when loading my PM9. It's always going to work if you're pulling the slide ALL the way back and release fully.

B) do you really carry without a round chambered? :rolleyes:
 
RE baddarryl: I've owned a CW9 and now I own an P9 and a K9 Elite. I've had that slingshot problem with both the CW9 and the P9, and yes, I agree it is totally annoying. Especially if you want to load the gun from a fresh mag with the slide in the forward position. It's much more complicated. First, you have to lock the slide back, then let it go. When one is used to Glock's, XD's, and the like, a slingshot is pretty much standard practice and operating solely from a slide lock is annoying. It's not that a slide lock doesn't have it's place: it does, I use mine on my XD, but when you CAN'T sling shot it, it messes with your mind/training.

That was basically the reason I sold my CW9 (that and it only liked FMJ's). I'm not sure if the K and MK series are just built better, but I've had NO problems with my K9 Elite and can sling shot it. Maybe it's because they do a high polish on the throat of the barrel??? I'm not really sure. I even had the factory polish the feed-ramp/hood/throat of the ported barrel I got for my K9 so it'd be the same as the factory Elite non-ported barrel.

Also, I had functioning problems with my P9, too. My CW9 ran pretty much well, except with hollow points, but my P9 was choking on FMJ's. I'm almost to the point where I would only recommend the steel frame guns from Kahr, and I want to sell my P9 now.

Kahr recommends operating from the slide-stop, not just as a friendly suggestion, but it is a necessity on most of the guns. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the presentation of the first round of a loaded magazine. If anybody else has noticed this with Kahr magazines, the first round is often presented in a really extreme angle. Also, the first round can easily pop out or become misaligned with rough handling of a magazine.
 
Kahr recommends operating from the slide-stop, not just as a friendly suggestion, but it is a necessity on most of the guns. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the presentation of the first round of a loaded magazine. If anybody else has noticed this with Kahr magazines, the first round is often presented in a really extreme angle.
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I've heard this, but I'm not clear on why this wouldn't be a problem during normal cycling if it's a problem with a slingshot operation of the slide. My P380 chambers the first round just fine with both operation of the slide-stop and slingshotting (after the factory polished the feed ramp and the polished roughness out of the chamber, at least -- inexcusable on a gun at this price, but that's another argument).
 
AustinTx said:
I've heard this, but I'm not clear on why this wouldn't be a problem during normal cycling if it's a problem with a slingshot operation of the slide.
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Not everybody releases the slide as "cleanly" as needed for a crisp return to battery.

Check response #3, above. Believe it or not, "slingshotting" or doing a hand-over release requires just as much finesse as pressing the slide release (done properly). As I mentioned in #3, the U.S. military has changed its handgun training to incorporate using the slide release rather than sling-shotting, due to problems in combat zones where the shooters were doing mag exchanges under bad or stressful conditions.

As the victim of G.I. training many years ago, and as someone who has spent a few years developing and running training programs in the business environment, I know that you sometimes have to present things in ways that even the most inept person can do it. When you do THAT your training doesn't always show the best way to do things but, rather, the way that works best for the largest number of people.

That may be the case with the Kahr design and recommended technique: releasing the slide by slingshotting can work very well for some folks, and those individuals will NEVER have a problem. Others will.problems.
 
Not everybody releases the slide as "cleanly" as needed for a crisp return to battery.
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Oh, I definitely realize that. What I'm saying is that I've heard a number of people say that it's a user-independent technical necessity on Kahrs because of something to do with the feeding angle of rounds out of the magazine. It's that claim that makes no sense to me.
 
AustinTx said:
What I'm saying is that I've heard a number of people say that it's a user-independent technical necessity on Kahrs because of something to do with the feeding angle of rounds out of the magazine. It's that claim that makes no sense to me.
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Gotcha. We simply don't know WHY Kahr says that.
 
From Kahr's Q and A:

"Q. My firearm fails to chamber the first round when I pull back the slide and release it. What is wrong?

A. It is likely you are either failing to pull the slide fully back or you are riding the slide as you release it. We recommend that you lock back the slide, insert the magazine, and release the slide with the slide stop. This will require that you carry a load in the chamber for self defense purposes. However, the passive safety system will prevent the pistol from firing unless the trigger is pulled, even if the gun is dropped. If you would prefer not to carry a round in the chamber, you may remove a round from the magazine. This alters the angle of the bullet and will allow it to chamber even if you ride the slide."

So, maybe you guys are right about it being user error, but clearly Kahr's pistols make it much easier for the user to make an error than other guns. Their manual says pretty much the same thing. But the presentation of the first bullet in the magazine, as stated above, is clearly an issue.
 
Darker Loaf said:
So, maybe you guys are right about it being user error, but clearly Kahr's pistols make it much easier for the user to make an error than other guns. Their manual says pretty much the same thing. But the presentation of the first bullet in the magazine, as stated above, is clearly an issue.
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I've owned several Kahrs and shot others, and have NOT noticed (as you claim in response #13, above, that "with Kahr magazines, the first round is often presented in a really extreme angle. Also, the first round can easily pop out or become misaligned with rough handling of a magazine."

Rough handling causing problems or rounds popping out BEFORE the mag is in the gun? Perhaps.

But once tne mag is in the gun what would cause or allow a change in the feed angle? It should be the same for each round unless there's a problem with the mag...
 
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