When I was in the USMC from '85-'93, the base MPs initially carried .38s (not sure which SW model). The load they used were the same load used by the Air Force, 130gr FMJ. As an ordnance driver, I would carry a M1911A1, same as any SNCO and officer. This continued until the late '80s when the M9 replaced both guns.
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On the box question Federal .38 ammo?
- Thread starter ZVP
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
One justification for the Beretta was that the .38 revolvers were running 40% irreparable when turned in for service. They were using up guns.
I knew a guy who had been in the Shore Patrol. One of his last guns was a Ruger Service Six, not long before the Italian Game.
I knew a guy who had been in the Shore Patrol. One of his last guns was a Ruger Service Six, not long before the Italian Game.
I believe that the 130 grain in .38 rounds is going to be a relatively new, and growing market. The default has always been 158 grains, but by reducing the bullet by 28 grains the maker could save millions annually. That ammo isn't selling for less than the 158 loads.
I don't think it's a grand conspiracy to short change shooters on bullet material in order to appease corporate greed. Light shooting target ammo has always been in demand. A 130gr bullet at 800fps produces less recoil than a 158gr, or 148gr bullet at 800fps. it's that simple.
I didn't say anything about conspiracy, cheating the public corporate greed, or anything like that, did I? This is a way to significantly lower production costs while maintaining profits and at the same time, NOT CHEATING THE PUBLIC. So the bullets are lighter, that's no problem, they still get ammo. This isn't the same as selling the half cans of coke for twice the price of a full size.
In fact, I anticipate the companies to start going even lower, a 115 grain "9mm equivalent" round, and nobody will be cheated. Plated bullets are good, less copper used and better performance than lead.
If you look at aluminum cans, they are a fraction lighter than when introduced. Water bottles use m maybe half as much plastic as they used to. Nobody's being cheated, assets are no longer being wasted, and you still get the water.
Would you like to hear another question? I'm afraid that we have literally reached the wall on efficiency of production. We have created the most efficient processes, reduced quality and cost of materials to the bone, made every effort to build quality and perceived value into a product,and even shut production down and many bed production to low cost offshore production.
I think that my most shocking moment was finding out th a in gold mine ing operations, the tailings are now ground as finely as possible, piled into hills over heavy plAstic liners, and a steady flow of prussic acid solution is run through it. It's ponded and kept running. Every so often the refine the gold in the solution and put the stuff right back into the ponds. If a mound ever drops to the level of not being profitable, they shut it down.. of course, the don't Give it up, there is still some metal left. They are left in place, and when gold is up in price high enough to make it worthwhile, the company starts the process again, to see if there's any more profit to be made..
In fact, I anticipate the companies to start going even lower, a 115 grain "9mm equivalent" round, and nobody will be cheated. Plated bullets are good, less copper used and better performance than lead.
If you look at aluminum cans, they are a fraction lighter than when introduced. Water bottles use m maybe half as much plastic as they used to. Nobody's being cheated, assets are no longer being wasted, and you still get the water.
Would you like to hear another question? I'm afraid that we have literally reached the wall on efficiency of production. We have created the most efficient processes, reduced quality and cost of materials to the bone, made every effort to build quality and perceived value into a product,and even shut production down and many bed production to low cost offshore production.
I think that my most shocking moment was finding out th a in gold mine ing operations, the tailings are now ground as finely as possible, piled into hills over heavy plAstic liners, and a steady flow of prussic acid solution is run through it. It's ponded and kept running. Every so often the refine the gold in the solution and put the stuff right back into the ponds. If a mound ever drops to the level of not being profitable, they shut it down.. of course, the don't Give it up, there is still some metal left. They are left in place, and when gold is up in price high enough to make it worthwhile, the company starts the process again, to see if there's any more profit to be made..
I guess I did refer to my "paranoid self" and conspiracy, but my rational self recognizes this as just another successful way to save assets and put products into the consumer while still maintaining profits. Do you realize how hard it is to make a profit dealing with Wal-Mart? Th a company literally spends Bill I one of dollars learning how much a product is worth, and then squeezing the makers white until there is nothing left to bargain with. Federal is barely paying the bills with this stuff, if they weren't running other lines in that factory they might not be able to keep it running.
Plated bullets are great. Do you remember when Remington started plating and called them "golden bullets?" That plain lead slug was plated at nearly no cost to the box, and the ammo doubled in value. That tiny bit of plating turns an ugly gray bullet into something shiny and desirable, and adds to the perceived value just like a brightly coloured cigar band does.
Plated bullets are great. Do you remember when Remington started plating and called them "golden bullets?" That plain lead slug was plated at nearly no cost to the box, and the ammo doubled in value. That tiny bit of plating turns an ugly gray bullet into something shiny and desirable, and adds to the perceived value just like a brightly coloured cigar band does.
Because police are not shooting at silhouette targets on their beat! They are issued what the Police headquarters issue to them on their watch. In high crime areas in the U.S., it may be a single shot drop of the assailant to stop the attack...as does every concealed carry licensed citizen. A full jacket or hollow point is sometimes not enough to stop the onslaught. Design of the bullet round and caliber determines the ultimate stop of the attack.
The short answer is:
This would be a very poor performing bullet in Law Enforcement. It leaves small wounds, and shoots clean through most of the time. It has little fight stopping ability (according to conventional wisdom based on the most recent research; YMMV).
130gr FMJ has been in production since its Air Force career. It makes good Training and Practice ammo, and kills small game cleanly without destruction as well. It is terminally synonymous with the various other non-expanding loads including the (dismally under-performing) 158gr LRN. LEOs mostly use hollow points, this both for faster incapacitation of threats, and less civil liability from over penetration and collateral damage.
This would be a very poor performing bullet in Law Enforcement. It leaves small wounds, and shoots clean through most of the time. It has little fight stopping ability (according to conventional wisdom based on the most recent research; YMMV).
130gr FMJ has been in production since its Air Force career. It makes good Training and Practice ammo, and kills small game cleanly without destruction as well. It is terminally synonymous with the various other non-expanding loads including the (dismally under-performing) 158gr LRN. LEOs mostly use hollow points, this both for faster incapacitation of threats, and less civil liability from over penetration and collateral damage.