On re-barreling a Mauser 98

L

Loyalist84

Inactive
I recently came into possession of a Brno CZ Mauser 98k, post-war job with all matching numbers but very little in the way of collector value. I've got it into my head to use the gun as the basis of a first custom rifle (actually my first rifle period, bigger than a .22), but my main quandry is whether or not to stay with 8x57 JS as a load.

I handload all my ammunition in any case, however my previous rifle for moose and other big game that I'd use the Mauser for was a loaned .280 Remington, which I have had nothing but good experiences with and have heard to be an overall exemplary cartridge. I have considered other chambering for this rifle (mainly 9.3x62 or .35 Whelen) but I believe them to be generally overkill for shots that I know I can take with a .280, and not to mention being a university student, money on such rarely available brass and bullets and dies in Canada is rather expensive to feasibly consider.

So I'm putting it to the board as to whether or not you think it worth it to re-barrel an 8x57 to .280 Rem. For further knowledge, I never shoot beyond 250 yards, and this rifle would be carried for black bear and moose hunting, perhaps Elk in the future, and possibly carried in Alberta as a black and brown bear defence firearm. Thoughts?
 
Although I really like the 280 Remington, I think you answered your own questions when you stated your intended use for the rifle. While the 280 is a good medium game cartridge, it's shortcoming is ammo selection and/or availability.
Given the max range and type of use mentioned and that you handload, the 8x57 may be the better choice. Moose and big bears would be a considerable challenge to the 280 unless using premium bullets(and even then would be at the upper limit). The 8x57 starts out with an advantage in diameter and bullet weight although at the cost of velocity(which may be somewhat equalized by judicious hand loading).
 
very little in the way of collector value.
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Who told you that? While not as much as a Matching Nazi era German Mauser, they are great rifles, and a matching one is collectible, particularly if it is early enough to have any German marked parts, or if is has the Czech lion. There is some discussion here: http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=159-1945-1950-Post-War-Czech-K98k-(Karabiner-98)-Rifle

If you are wanting a scoped hunting rifle, you are better off selling the Mauser and buying a new rifle, it will be more accurate, have a better trigger, be set up for a scope.

You can certainly spend the money to convert the Mauser to a scoped hunting rifle, but it will probably cost more than a new rifle would.

Sporterizing a military rifle made a lot of sense when they were a fraction of the price of the bottom of the line Remington or Winchester, and could be found by the barrel full in the local hardware store for $10. Those days are long gone.
 
particularly if it is early enough to have any German marked parts
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Unfortunately this is an all-Czech post-war 98k, and already sporterized via a cut-down stock by the previous owner with the lion crest ground off, so I don't think I've paid much below the going price when I got it for $225, from what I've read. While I would certainly be putting enough money into the rifle to equal the cost of a new Sako or Tikka (at least, at the same cost I could buy one for in Canadian dollars), Brno was a traditional firearm brand in the family, so to have a rifle made on that action is a largely sentimental choice on my part.

it's shortcoming is ammo selection and/or availability
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Just to clarify, I already can access the loading setup for a .280, as it was my Dad's gun I borrowed on my last moose hunt and he's loaded it with 160 gr Sierra Grand Slams to take Ontario moose (a far cry in size from the Alaskan giants I'll likely never see) with plenty of authority. That being said, I have found several good 8x57 loads that should put me in the 2700 fps range with 170 gr spritzers, plenty of medicine for moose and especially black bear where we hunt.
 
Well, dies and components are available to load 8x57, and I agree it's a good round in its own right. I like Sierra ProHunter 175's over IMR-4064. Regards rebarreling, I am currently working a couple Mauser projects, and of course I'm learning a few things. First, if you are thinking of drilling for scope bases, have it done by a knowledgeable person. Incorrect placement can render the receiver unsafe. Second, there are a number of good outfits who will be happy to do the rebarrel, but they ain't cheap. You can take the plunge and do it yourself. Pre-threaded barrels are available, and you can change barrels with a barrel vice and action wrench. Then you'll need to rent a chamber reamer to set the headspace. You may have to modify or replace the bolt handle if you want a scope. Bottom line: This can all be fun and interesting in and of itself, but from a purely practice standpoint, it's not worth it.
 
I bought a used refurbished Yugo M98 on an impulse buy. Kind of regretting it. My M98 is a really nice looking rifle and is almost all matching #'s (wrong firing pin), but I'm really struggling with consistency. I've handoaded quit a bit of different loads and even with expensive match smk's the best I can get is about 4 moa. I also observe random wild fliers that I can't even keep on a 9" paper plate at 200 meters. My rifle previously had a hacked bubba-bedding performed and I'm not sure if this is a factor. I gave up on precision a few years back as 8mm Mauser handloading gets very expensive. I need to get my chamber scoped by a Smith as maybe my barrel is shot out.
 
The only drawbacks to loading 8 x 57 are the cost and availability of the brass. That can be negated by re-forming 30-06 or 270 Win. brass. The 8 x 57 will do most anything many other more popular rounds will do, so no technical reason why the rifle has to be changed.

Re-barreling, even if the OP can do the work himself, will still be more costly than it's worth - the resulting combination won't really be any more effective on game than it is now - regardless of cartridge chosen. This assuming that the existing barrel is in good condition and the rifle shoots well, as is.

As for adding a scope, etc.....that is a matter for the owner to decide. If the rifle is already sportered, then barring a restoration to original specs, it really does not have much collector value. Adding scopes to old Mausers can be a challenge, because the scope usually must be mounted very high above the receiver (for clearance), but no reason it can't be done....and the result do the job just fine.

If it were me, I'd keep the 8 x 57 chambering, use the rifle as is, except for adding a scope as needed, work up good hand loads for it......and enjoy it. They are solid, tough and nearly indestructible old warhorses, with a lot of character.

I've had a Yugo 48 for over 16 years. I got it for a song, from a friend of a friend. Mis-matching numbers, so it really had no collector value. I have since re-barreled it myself, mounted a LER scope on a base I made myself and reconfigured a nice old walnut military stock into a pre-WWII sporter style for it. Glass-bedded the action and bottom metal and did a lot of load development for it. I've taken several deer with it. Every time I shoot it, it brings a big silly grin to my face. I began hand loading in the first place, specifically to find better loads for that rifle. I've done conventional loads, paper-patched cast bullet loads and special reduced loads for it. When I re-barreled it, I used a pristine military "take-off" barrel (which had never actually been used), in the original 8 x 57 chambering. Cost me $34. I've had more fun with that old rifle, than all others I've ever had - combined.

And the old warhorse will still, with my handloads, hold 1 1/2" groups, literally all day long, at 200 yards, with a 2X LER scope..... rain or shine, cold or hot. It is the one rifle I will NEVER part with. I plan on hunting Caribou with that old Mauser, on the tundra up north, when I reach the great beyond.

So, the choice is yours (speaking to the OP). I guess it depends on your affinity for the rifle in question. It is obvious which way I lean on this.
 
I bought a used refurbished Yugo M98 on an impulse buy. Kind of regretting it. My M98 is a really nice looking rifle and is almost all matching #'s (wrong firing pin), but I'm really struggling with consistency. I've handoaded quit a bit of different loads and even with expensive match smk's the best I can get is about 4 moa. I also observe random wild fliers that I can't even keep on a 9" paper plate at 200 meters. My rifle previously had a hacked bubba-bedding performed and I'm not sure if this is a factor. I gave up on precision a few years back as 8mm Mauser handloading gets very expensive. I need to get my chamber scoped by a Smith as maybe my barrel is shot out.
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Assuming it is still in the unmolested military stock, follow the steps here:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-restore-accuracy-to-your-Russian-capture-98k

Done 4 of them so far, three Russian captures and one Yugo rework, all of them shot consistently under 2 MOA, using handloads and a scout scope mount.

Actually, that is probably an option for the OP. A couple places make scope mounts that replace the rear sight leaf. Mine is a S&K, and seems surprisingly stable.

Yugo K98s had new barrels fitted when they were reworked in the late 40s/early 50s, and most saw little use. The bore on mine looks new.
 
8 X 57 is a fantastic big game cartridge. I just put together a relatively lightweight sporter on a shoestring - really a parts clean-up project - and I'm just delighted with the results. I've settled on a slightly reduced load for up-close whitetails.
If a rifle can't keep 4 moa is almost certainly a case of poor bedding.
Note that Mausers are easy and fun to work with, but the barrel is not exactly screw-in. To get the full benefits of the system, both front and rear torque shoulders should be in contact. This is easily checked with shim stock, although fixing it, which is almost always necessary, takes a lathe. If you make the calculations, it should only cost the basic shop fee. And of course it will affect head space.
 
emcon5 said:
Yugo K98s had new barrels fitted when they were reworked in the late 40s/early 50s, and most saw little use. The bore on mine looks new.
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I tried some free floating and it did help somewhat but still not great. Some times i'll shot 3 shots holding 2 moa , then one shot will just fly off into never never land. Very frustrating. I'm pretty sure my barrel has been replaced as it's stamped "MOD 98" and the crown and rifling look excellent, my bore however looks slightly hazy. It looked ugly when I first got the rifle, but after several hours of de-lead scrubbing and bore swabbing it looks much better.
 
The problem isn't always at the front end. Sometimes the tang isn't anchored properly. Has it got the pillar and is it tight?
 
A great many military Mausers do not respond well to free floating. They were actually never designed to be free-floated anyway. The military stock, with barrel bands and bayonet lug, makes free floating very problematic. Inconsistent point of impact with these rifles almost always points to poor bedding of the action in the stock. In other words, the action is moving about in the stock, when the rifle is fired. Trying to get the barrels in these to free float usually results in partial contact on one side or excessive movement of the barrel in the stock, which in turn causes the receiver to move (when the rifle is fired).

Take a close look at how well the stock fits the action. Try to move the action side to side and back and forth and take careful note of the results. Even a very small amount of movement is bad. Also check as to whether the recoil shoulder (on the bottom of the receiver) fits tightly against the stock crossbolt, when the action is installed into the stock. There should be NO gap whatsoever. Little or no contact of the recoil shoulder is probably the most common bedding problem with these rifles. Any gap at all will allow the receiver to shift when the rifle is fired, throwing off accuracy.

When examining the stock, check closely for (signs of) shrinkage or swelling of the wood, or whether the wood appears oil-soaked.

The solution, in all probability, is to glass-bed the action. Short of that, you could try adding a shim between the recoil shoulder and crossbolt, if any gap exists. If the stock is oil-soaked or the wood is warped or has experienced shrinkage, replacement of the stock is indicated.

One other thing: check that the inside surface of the handguard does not bear against the barrel when installed. This can have an effect on accuracy. If there is contact, just sand the inside surface to create a small amount of clearance.

I have found, over the years, that barrel contact with the barrel bands and bayonet lug doesn't matter much. Handguard contact (with the top of the barrel), does make a difference. But, the most important thing is that the action fits tightly in the stock, with recoil shoulder seated firmly against the crossbolt.
 
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Loyalist: IMO,You handload.Seasonally,either Rem or Win will make a run of 8x57 brass.Buy at least 200.
Set 100 aside for backup. Get two 50 round ammo boxes.

If you do a good job of handloading,as in not setting your shoulders back too far,and not pushing for the last 85 fps velocity,you could get 10 reloadings out of that brass.or 8,or 12.
But if you are careful,that 100 rds of brass will make at least 700 rounds.
So you always are shooting out of one box of 50,with 50 in reserve.You have the time the second 50 gives you to reload the first 50.
I'm sure Norma and Lapua make brass,too.Lapua lasts longer.
8x57 is perfect for what you are doing,and the rifle was built for it.
Point is,no receiver work necessary.The only real issue going to .280 might be cartridge LOA.The 8x57 Mag box may be a touch shorter.The 30-06 case is 6mm longer.Heavy 7 mm bullets are long.
If you are using the rifle as you describe,big game to 250 yds or so,and if the bore is in good shape,I'd expect decent hunting accuracy,say 2 MOA,from the original barrel.
If you decide to rebarrel,two or three suggestions.Some barrelmakers will fit and chamber your receiver.
A prethreaded short chambered barrel of very nice quality and reasonable price can be had from Lothar Walther.
If you retain the originalbarrel,you can skip this,but if you fit a new barrel,have the receiver face trued.

If you retain the original barrel,probably best to keep the original bolt.
For most,but not all,98 mausers,a commercial bolt will work in your receiver.
Long ago I bought a few.A commercial bolt when rebarreling can get you a scope bolt handle and a commercial bolt sleeve.(No military safety)
As is,a Military safety does not work with a scope.
The military safety is a great design,but a Timney trigger with a safety is an option.
If you can find a decent smith,ask price to

1)True receiver ring,screw in a Walther barrel,pre-theaded,and headspace(finish ream) the chamber

2)Used Commercial bolt(talk with your smith about fit)

3)Drill and tap for a scope
4)Timney trigger with safety

Note,this does not include bluing

Compare that to

1)Original barrel.Maybe shorten a half inch or so and crown.
2)Alter bolt handle and install Mk2 or Buehler type safety.
3) Drill and tap
Retain original finish

I won't rain on your parade.Do what makes you happy.

Many years ago,with a dirt cheap mauser action,doing my own work,no labor,
And back when a dollar was worth more,it would cost me $500 to build a hunting rifle.
I don't regret doing it.But scratch your head and figure some.

As your rifle is,the common chopped "utility rifle" of long ago,If you look for an old,steel receiver peep sight,like a Lyman or a Redfield,well,you can e-bay one for $50 to $75,easy.The right one to fit your rifle.
A smith can drill and tap for that pretty cheap.

You are sort of letting the rifle be what it is.
No bolt or safety alteration.You can slightly slenderize the stock ,clean it up,put some finish on it.

With nice sights,a 250 yd shot is not out of the question.You have a backup and bad weather gun.No rained over scope you can't see through.
Don't forget the sling swivels and 1907 sling!!Teamthat up,as a shooting sling,with your receiver sight...If you have good,young eyes,you might be surprised.

Maybe you spent $100.And,by golly,an unscoped bolt rifle is a lot handier to carry.Old school!!

It does make more practical sense to save up and buy that .280 in,oh,a Mark 10 used,or a Win 70,or? for cheaper than you can pay to smith your mauser(And you get to keep the Mauser!)
 
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Road clam,a good glass bed job will work.It almost always helps.A bad one can make things worse.
You need full bearing between the recoil lug and stock.If its glass bedded,that face should be glass.
You at least want the flat floor of the receiver resting flat on glass on the stock behind the recoil lug.
The wood behind the recoil lug is much stronger if it is supported by the front of the mag box,and the rear of the mag box transmits force to the wood behind it.
You do not want the receiver strained over any high spots when the screws are tightened,That includes the mag box.And,at the miimum,you want a pad of glass under the tang.Yes,the whole receiver may be glassed,but the receiver needs to rest firmly,but unflexed on those places when the screws are tight,The steel ferrule around the guard screw must limit crush so the receiver clamps on the ferrule,or nearly,without bowing the receiver.
Same with the floorplate/guard assembly.You need about .025 or so clearance behind the upper tang so you don't split off a chunk of the wrist of your stock.

You need clearance around your guard screws,If the sides of the screws contact stock,it won't shoot.

The receiver must be unstrained,and immobile.

If this is a chopped rifle,rather than full military,ideally,the barrel is centered in the channel.You can decide,full free float,or forend pressure.Hint,you can try it free float,add a pressure pad later.
A)clearance,so you have a generous 1/16 of air all around the barrel.Degrease and sand inside the barrel channel.
Carefully put at least 2,I prefer 3 layers vinyl tabe on the barrel,then glass the barrel channel.You will trap less air if you lay the resin centered in the bottom of the channel,so it oozes up to fill.

Now,If you are of the forend tip pressure school,secure the rear of the stock in a padded vise,or sandbags,but realize you are going to hang weight on the front sling swivel,however much tip pressure you want.5 lbs,7 lbs?.Its voodoo.You decide.Degrease/sand the area where you want the pad.Foreward 1 1/2 in? OK by me.Remove tape from barrel.Apply release agent.
Hang the amount of weight you want for forend pressure on the front sling swivel stud.Put the 1 1/2 bead of epoxy centered in the bottom of the bbl channel.I suggest the gel,applied like a bead of toothpaste.
Install the bbl'd action,and torque the screws normally.Let it set up.
Ater a couple hours,you can trim some excess.24 hours later,thake it out.
File/block sand top ede of epoxy flush to stock.

If you had a decent barrel,and do all that...I can't make a guarantee,but I would expect about 2 moa or so with decent ammo.
 
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The original bedding instructions had the barrel floated most of the length, with a pressure point near the front band. You also want to make sure there is clearance between the magazine and action.

Details here:

"PROPER BEDDING OF GERMAN CARBINE 98k (from official German Ordinance document).
http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/SC_tips2.html#bed

These instructions pretty much match what is in the Gunboards thread I linked above.

Like I mentioned, I've done this to 4 different rifles, with good results on all of them.
 
I'm not sure I even want to attempt a quality bed job with the current stock. The stock I know has been hacked to accept a bubba picitinny clamp on barrel type scope base. The action valley also looks like its been hacked with a chisle. Bummer as its the original correct numbered stock. I'm thinking about buying another stock and start fresh.
 
If the stock is already that beat, there is no harm in trying to get rid of the old bedding, and redoing it right.
 
Choices; I have an 8mm06 chamber reamer. For me there is no down side to going from 8mm57 to 8mm06. Just simply neck the 30/06 case neck up to 8mm then load and shoot. We all know there is no way the chamber can have excessive head space from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face if the reloader does his own reaming. For all others there is the 280 Remington case. The 280 Remington case is longer from the shoulder to the case than the 30/06 case by .051”; I ask; how could a reloader go wrong with .051” to play with.

F. Guffey
 
I understand 8 mm 06 was a popular conversion.Nothing wrong with the cartridge.
To my way of thinking,mag box length is perfect for 8x57.Yes,you can deep seat 8mm-06.I hate to deep seat.

Here is my crazy impractical idea...because it is a non-standard wildcat.
I have thought of a light .338 bore barrel,chambered to neck 8x57 brass up to .338. Ackley Improving optional.Thinking of the 210 Nosler Ballistic Tip/Accubond. Partition optional
Why? Perfect length for 98 Mauser,and .338 bullet selection/availability.
 
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