Oleg's MMM poster caused a firestorm! Need help with replies to this acqaintance

Good books onthe topic
Harold Werner's "Fighting Bakc"
Nechama Tec's "Defiance; the Bielski Partisans"

These seem like very accurate accounts of vicious and bloody history...they do not pull punches in describing either side's activities.

A while back, AR15.com forum had a gentleman who survived fighting at one of the camps, later in '47-48 in Israel...he's in America now and his views on being disarmed are not polite. He wrote that doing damage inthe course of awar is terrible but not nearly as terrible as watching everyone you know die and beunable to do anything to stop the butchery.

PS: I am going to meet the synagogue rifle team tomorrow. At last, we got it going.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Just my own feeling on this topic.

I would much rather die fighting back, with dignity, than just die, like a slave, herded like sheep.

Two or three German Jews ,using kitchen knives and baseball batts, could have overwelmed one Nazi soldier,taken his weapon and used it to kill more Nazis and get more weapons.

During WW2 , a cheap single shot weapon with 5 -45acp cartridges were dropped behind enemy lines to the civilian resitance members.

It was called the "liberator pistol" and cost about 1.oo each.It was only single shot and took about a minute to reload, but its purpose was to kill just 1 Nazi so you could
aquire his more expensive ammo and weapon to kill yet more Nazis and get yet more weapons and ammo.

When there is a will, there is always a way.

When the will is lacking,as in sheeple,well,
the picture under discussion tells it all.

When you trust,listen to and believe government, you get unarmed sheeple with out
what it takes to survive.

The meek, those that yet survive, will inherit the world?
Only if people like Adolph Hitler,
Bill Clinton and Al Gore are no longer around to enslave and kill them.
 
The questions that needs to be asked is: Had they been armed and able to resist might not the war have ended earlier and lives been saved?

The lady who initially started this discussion in my opinion would have resisted as best she could have under the circumstances. I can't picture her coming out with her hands up in 1939 or whenever the war against the Jews started. From what I can gather many of those there didn't believe it was happening and certainly the magnitude was not known until the wars end. Now it seems they are erecting museums so no one will forget. With the propaganda machines running and the media controlled it is not to difficult to make the public believe whatever you want. While the statement, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time" may be true there are certainly a lot of people who can be fooled most if not all the time. Guns may have forced the Nazis into defeat in WWII but let us not forget it was also the guns and more of them that caused them to be defeated.

Two recent movies should make the power of the media and the government very clear, i.e., "Wag the dog," and "Enemy of the State." Of course these are movies but no one can really comprehend what the future holds.

My final question. Who did the Jews fear in WWII was it the gun or the Nazis? Was it the gas chambers or the Nazis? No inanimate object should be feared. Respected yes, but feared no. Fear should be of the person or persons in control.

A good site regarding the Swiss and there guns is: http://www.ssanz.org.nz/articles/swiss.html

[This message has been edited by Roybean (edited June 10, 2000).]
 
I was raised on a farm, been using guns since I was 6 yrs old. I'm not one of the old guard TFLer's in age, that some folks dismiss as "old guys from a time that isn't around". I'm 33, female and damn good with a rifle.

I've not seen any argument, nor will I accept any, that could convince me that being unarmed is a judicious state to be in. All folks, anti's and us, have life insurance, health insurance, fire insurance, auto insurance, home insurance....firearms are insurance, an insurance that I know can pay off

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I totaly agree with ernest2 first statement.Its betterr to die on your feet then on your knees.I just can not understand how anyone that can read history can be for gun control.TO me it shows a total lack of ability to comprehend what has happened in the past.

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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
With Vietnam, we could have blasted them into the stone age, the war was making to much money and therefore it lasted as it did.

There is more than just Hitler involed in WWII, There are people that say that the Ford Foundation supported Hitler by giving him money. IMHO Hilter wasn't all about killing Jews, If he would have accomplished and taking over Europe, would have been years down the road before he would have gone into Asia with the supplies and troops that he would have needed. Hiltler made to major mistakes in WWII or I beleive that he would of had Europe. Russia was one, didnt have enough resources, and I forget which battle, but he headed south and attacked the American's which was costly, if he headed North and fought the Brits he would have had us surrounded.

This happend 60 years ago, NWO, One world Gov't, and it still lurks today, slowly but surely we are heading more and more to one Gov't. UN becomes more involed in everything day by day. I know I post a lot of conspiracy stuff, but we are in a losing battle day by day. Take a lil here and there and soon enough you are left with nothing. Would Americans stand up and fight against a unjust Gov't, not likely, most aren't prepared for a battle, having 17,000,000 rounds of ammo wont feed you. Some say that our democracy and voting will save us, it sure the heck looks like its working, since '34 guns rights have been striped, in 94 some of the biggest guns laws passed yet the American people vote for the same prez that took the rights away.

Whatever the outcome it doesnt look good for the good ole USofA. Sit back and let democracy take its course, Executive Orders go into place, Fight it out with blood and sweat, UN jumps in to stop it and take control.

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"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ..."
Bill Clinton, 1994
 
Futo,

There are many instances in world history of armed and determined civilians defeating an enemy.

One of the finest examples is that of our own nation. Our forefathers fought against the worlds most powerful army and won with an opposing force consisting of mainly determined civilians.

During WW2, there are many examples of partisans inflicting great damage on the Axis forces. Besides the previously mentioned French, there is the Yugoslavians under Marshal Tito. His forces fought throughout the war and inflicted severe damages against the Axis. Norwegian partisans sabotaged the Germans "heavy water" program, allowing the Allies to defeat the Nazis before they could develop nuclear weapons.

The Mujahadeen of Afghanistan, inflicted major casualities on the Soviets during the 1980's war.

Even if none of these examples convince your friend, you should ask him/her if they would prefer to die while begging on their knees, or while inflicting as much damage and pain upon their oppressor as possible.
 
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." -Winston Churchill
 
Tell your aquaintance about the liberty pistol. It was a crude .45 cal pistol, single shot, that we parachuted into france and other occupied countries. It had cartoon instructions and 4 rounds of ammo. Ask your friend why the us would make and airdrop thousands of these behind enemy line? The answer is that they would sow chaos, uncertainty and security/logistical nightmares among the occupying armies. Your friend is quite mistaken. While Germany was able to TAKE the balkans, she proved unable to hold it over the long run in the face of determined light partisan attacks...
 
Which would you rather face (as an invader)? An American army of 2 million, or and American army of 2 million backed by 80 million gun owners who can each give their neighbors a gun or two?

Rick
 
Just imagine, for a moment, how you would feel RIGHT NOW if there were no guns in your home.

. . .

Shivering yet?

Now, just touch the handgrip of your guns, gentlement, to reassure yourselves.

Isn't armed freedom a wonderful thing?
 
IF!? IF!?

:eek: :mad:
barf.gif
 
Hi Folks, I'm back. I agree with whoever said it first, the tagline says it all. This guy finds the very idea of using a gun for much of anything ridiculous, and about the same for defending the Constitution, I'd say. Personally, I'd be pretty miffed at being compared to McVeigh but that's your lookout. My point is do your best, but don't expect a miracle. This person is not listening.
 
Just as gun prohibitionists count the number of people killed in self-defense instead of crimes prevented. . . .

Look at it another way. Armed civilians could not defeat the army. And as with warsaw ghetto, a power as great as the Nazis would ultimately win.

So why bother?

Some may think it's better to die on your feet than on your knees (as per the picture).

I don't know. And I don't know how we would respond in the situation they were in. The Jews/other people killed by govt. didn't have it happen all at once, it was an incremental process (including "registration" of people).

However, Warsaw Ghetto was a victory even though all concerned died. It was a waste of Nazi time, waste of Nazi manpower, it cost them some prestige, it cost their army a bit of morale.

Even if someone like Adolph is going to win, it is worth it to cause him as much grief as possible before, during and after. Enough people do it and it's just not worth it to kill civilians in cost to morale and strenght of troops.

And even if he wins eventually, at least the NEXT mass-murderer has to weigh harder options.


just a rant.
Battler.
 
I got Oleg's poster as wallpper on my desktop. I went to see the holocaust memorial exhibit called "Daniel's Story" at the Kirkpatrick Center in OKC this weekend. At the end of the exhibit people were asked to write down their thoughts on postcards with colored markers. All I could think of is the First Million Mom March. I wrote that armed citizens cannot be relocated and murdered but I doubt if it will get posted with all the "stop the hate" responses I saw
 
This article is a keeper:
http://ls.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-3/753-4.html

OF HOLOCAUSTS AND GUN CONTROL

Cite as 75 Wash. U. L.Q. 1237

DANIEL D. POLSBY

Don B. Kates, Jr.<LI>

This essay seeks to reclaim a serious argument from the lunatic fringe. We argue a connection exists between the restrictiveness of a country's civilian weapons policy and its liability to commit genocide[1] upon its own people.
 
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