Older Firearms

It does not help that we are in the "information" age. The new guns just don't stand a chance.

A problem with a batch of Model XX in the 50's doesn't get reported/recalled, compared to the instant complaining about a scratch on a slide by noon on 6 boards these days.

Beentown
 
That is why alot of us regret the guns we have sold or traded off in the last 10 years. Think about it next time you are itching to trade a blued steel beauty for the cool black ninja poly gun.
 
A problem with a batch of Model XX in the 50's doesn't get reported/recalled, compared to the instant complaining about a scratch on a slide by noon on 6 boards these days.
That's true Beentown, but before online buying, the dealer sent obvious stuff back themselves. They knew the customers walking into their stores were going to see and handle the exact weapon they wanted to buy...and anything that wasn't right from the factory would never sell unless discounted.

That said, something internal may not show up until it's fired. Still when purchased on line, you don't even get to see what you bought until you go to your dealer to pick it up. Online does have some advantages, and drawbacks...I've been lucky with the few I've gotten online so far, others not so lucky.:(
 
I'm not big on the new pistols either

Mostly because they don't have the features I want. And they have features I don't want. Often, lots of them.

Plastic frames don't bother me too much, per se, but the guns with plastic frames also lack those things that make the older steel frame guns so attractive to me. For me, autopistols need one of two things for safety, an exposed hammer, or a positive safety lever/button, that locks in both positions, until I move it. And thats just for starters.

I don't need or care for handguns with built in locks. If they are unobtrusive, they don't bother me, but a gaping keyhole in the side of a pistol just offends my sense of esthetics. I have always felt that locking (either internal or external) a loaded gun was a particularly stupid thing to do. And when unloaded, there's no point at all to locking it. Locking them up in a secure storage is a different matter entirely, and good sense too.

Rails, "memory bumps", and lots of other accessory features so popular with many today are also of little or no interest to me, and in some cases, are a severe detraction to the guns appeal, to me.

The hand finish work that used to be done by skilled men and women is now done (often badly), if done at all, by machines. Cost is the reason, they say. And they are right. Build them the way they did even half century ago, and an average handgun would cost an average worker a month's wages, instead of a week's. And that just the low end models! Also those people who have the skills to do the work like they used to aren't working in the factories able to train and teach the next generation of workers, anymore. There are exceptions, but in general, thats the way it is now.

As far as handguns go, the Colt Government Model as made for the army in WWII, was turned out by companies that had never made a firearm before at all, so I don't completely agree with the suggestion that master craftsmen were making them.

No, master craftsmen weren't making them. But, govt inspectors were ensuring that the parts made by all those companies that never made guns before (and also those that had) met the govt. specs. And the guns were assembled by men and women who had made guns before, from those parts. The rigid inspection criteria, and the amount of parts that failed and were rejected somehow isn't remembered nearly as often or as well as the fact that companies that never made guns before made the parts.

One of the reasons so many consider a 1911 a "starter gun" that needs tweaking, today is that so many different makers put them out on the market, and the only specs they have to meet is their own, and some of those have been "improved" (they believe) over the original GI criteria. Some makers do a fine job. Others not so much.

Even the cheaper guns of yesteryear were made pretty well. Of course, the cheapest were junk then, just as now. Want to see something surprising? Take a look at the insides of a pocket pistol made before WWII. Some of them are built like Swiss watches, compared to today. I have seen some European .25s from the 20s & 30s who's internals were polished, and even jeweled! And these were not high end guns even then! Skilled labor was cheaper, and plentiful, so they could and often did take the time to make the best product they could. Not just "good enough" to sell for a profit.

We have lots of things today that didn't exist back then, and some of them are delightful. But not everything, by a long shot.
 
I tend towards older types of firearms, tho I don't quite agree on the hollowpoints and other types of ammo being marketing hype or over rated. Maybe people are easier to stop than small and medium small game/varmints, but I'm simply not impressed with any round nose bullets as a game killer, including in 45 auto and 45 Colt, when compared to even a SWC, let alone a hollow point that works. Cirillo mentioned that the Coroners he had talked to told him they couldnt tell the difference between a wound made with a 32 or a 45 when round nose loads were used. When he started using Super-Vel hollow point loads in 38 spl, the comments were on the order of "Holy S**t, what did you shoot these guys with!" The difference in shooting game is profound. Critters run off after hits with RN bullets, they don't tend to with Keith bullet loads or hollow point loads. Part of the reason we have newer loads is because the older types often didnt work all that well. Many improvements in bullets and loads has come about from individuals experimenting, not ammuntion companies. They have refined things some, but the pioneering work was generally done by men truly looking for better loads.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind your ideas about ammo, and the guns idea is a bit weak also in my opinion. I may not like, or have a real use for much of the newer stuff, but don't think it's junk, or simply industry hype and salemanship. Sure, there's plenty of that, but I think you make too much of an overgeneralization.

I agree quality has gone by the wayside in most of our guns today. I know how to deal with some of that. Sad that it takes a couple hours of hand work to get a gun where it should be out the door of the factory.
 
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Hmmm...interesting.


"Gun-bashing high pressure from a .40 S&W" eh?

I'll be the first to say that on average, taht is gun-per gun, I like the older ones as well. Nothing compares to a 1911 in the hand, and I like having a gun made of steel.

That said, I don't see the new guns as junk. +p ammo..I don't know it's usefullness but modern guns can take it so why not?

I for one don't care for tac-rails, and will likely never buy a Glock, XD,etc.etc. The farthest into "Plastic Pistols" is Sig Sauers. Don't have an urge to press farther in :D
 
Over the weekend I was shooting two revolvers from my stable...

A Smith .30-20 built in 1912-13, and a Smith .38 Special built in the 1920s.
 
Well I have some of the first rifles I learned how to shoot with that doesn't count.When I first got married the babies came and the only thing of value
I owned was my firearm collection.When it came time to part with stuff my
black hawk pistols were the first to go.I was lucky enough to find a guy who was hard up and need money for a black hawk pistol in 30 caliber.I asked
how much and we haggled for hour or so in between beers and I ended up
with it for $75.00.This is the one I kick myself for ever selling.I got $185
for it.I 've been to several ranges and yet to see another one.The report
on this thing despite having an 8 inch barrel reminded me of my mosin nagin
at dusk.
 
It boils down to value, for me. Old school is better, in my opinion, for certain items, such as guns, musical instruments, wood crafted furniture, etc.

I can usually spend less, and get higher quality materials and craftsmanship by buying older.

Just did it with a Rem. shotgun and a S&W revolver, both 40 to 45 yrs old, and better than new in my book.

Josh P
 
Finally found someone near to my heart. So many new guns are plastic, potmetal castings and stamped tin parts. For me if has any plastic, alloy or stamped parts I feel it should be taken back to the Walmart toy department where it was bought.
 
I am a Classicist, a Steel and Walnut man. I agree there have been improvements in manufacturing techniques-Ruger and investment casting, e.g.
that have produced top quality firearms at reasonable prices and when modern techniques-MIM, sintered metal-are combined with rigorous quality control, the result is firearms just as good as those from the "Good Old Days".
But no polymer, aluminum, titanium for me, no "safe actions"-what I call "knucklehead guns". My safety is, as Finn Aagard said, "behind the eyes and between the ears." And the Caliber Wars have probably raged since the 45 Schofield replaced the 45 Long Colt in Army usage in the 1870s and then Winchester introduced the 44-40 then the 38-40.
 
Many "older" guns have been recalled: S + W mods. 581,586,681,686 (37 mods.) are just a few. 1970's Win mod. 490. At least 54 different Remingtons, Pre 1973 Ruger Blackhawks, Weatherby, Colt, you name it.


The "pre '73 ruger blackhawks" were not recalled due to problems, they were recalled to "upgrade" the action to the new transfer bar style.
 
Well, I see myself as a conservative traditionalist, though my wife says I'm just the opposite (let's just say I'm not a radical). But I'm not a purist, least of when it comes to guns. My most recent acquisition, last Saturday, was a Ruger P345, which of course is a plastic frame, stainless slide (this one anyway) that came in a plastic box instead of the traditional cardboard box. I don't know what the bicycle lock is for. I just had to get it since it was on my list and I was between .45s. Yet my previous purchase a year or two ago was a S&W skinny barrel (it was new, too) blue Model 10. It had no lock or hole, though the hammer had the little slot. Odd revolver.

The Ruger was a difficult choice since there were several others in the shop that I wanted that were also on my list, all used, but the Ruger was new. There was a Walther PP in .380, a rare thing, a Kahr 9mm, neat gun, both a Sig 238 and a 239, both felt like bricks, and even a .32 Ruby. All the 1911 type guns were way out of my price range. They were all Kimbers except one but a Kimber is not traditional enough for me.
 
Most Oft Used CCW's

95 year oldS&W 2nd Model Hand Eector .45 Colt, 58 year old Colt Super.38, 97 year old Colt Hammerless .32
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I often tote a CZ-52
Not super old (however Han Solo used a modified one in Star Wars).
I like that it is cheap and if the Sh!% goes down and i need to use deadly force in a self defense situation in my part of the world I would not think twice about tossing that ole 52 straight into the deep blue sea. Plus the round has been known to penetrate body armor, it is not uncommon for bad guys down here to tote armor.

Aside from all that I trust in all of my older Colts & Ruger wheelies

I own newer stuff as well and do not poo-poo XD's etc. There is a time and a place for everything.
 
I wear Daily a Colt Detective made in May 1928.It still shoots like new.I also have a S&W 38 6 in,made in June 1976 and a G 19 Glock from 1998. I like em all, heck I just like guns.
 
I have a lot of the older revolvers but have still bought a Glock. S&W M&P 9 a Beretta 92 plus more. And they are all great shooters and not one problem. But him talking about the .40 just no way my .40 has no more recoil than my 9mm and I am not crazy about a lot of recoil. He does have some good points but just not all is right:confused:
 
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