Older Firearms

Teuthis

New member
Personally, I much prefer the older handguns to the newer models that I see on the market. Typically these modern marvels have plastic frames, no real safeties, numerous aftermarket "necessities" to make them function properly; and they invariably come with attendant recalls from design and manufacturing defects. Once solid gun makers like Smith and Wesson, Ruger, and Colt cannot seem to get anything just right these days. Not only are many of the new handguns put together badly, but the designs themselves are often suspect. My Ruger LCP was recalled for safety reasons while I was still on the waiting list to get one. I still have it, but I am seeking something old to replace it.

With a very few exceptions, i.e. a modern manufactured Browning Hi Power (1935 proven design) and a couple of sturdy ruger revolvers (also of older, proven design) all of my handguns are quite dated: S&W Model 39's and 59's. S&W revolvers made from the 40's to the 70's; a dated Hi Power; an old but resilient 1911 that never fails. I have corrected several mistakes by selling or trading off the newer, plastic models purchased in moments of non-compos-mentis. I have confidence in the old, solid and safe handguns. That is important to me.

We are naively convinced by manufacturers of guns and ammunition that older calibers or non +P rounds are not enough; too weak for self defense. We fall prey to our own, ignorant insecurites, and insidious marketing strategies meant to convince us that only the latest and greatest are sufficient to protect us. Whatever was avaiable in the past was certainly insufficient. How lucky we are that anyone ever survived a fire fight!

We are presented with new, "hot" calibers, such as the S&W40 that use gun- bashing high pressure to propel a bullet just a little faster, and jar the sensibilities of shooting tyros with unnecessary, hand-numbing, felt recoil that can permanently blunt their shooting abilities. But we are told with solemn authority that such calibers are necessary to protect us.

The 38 Special is all but condemned as useless unless if it is +P+; the 9mm is only now receiving some accurate understanding in this country, of its potential as a self defense round. And of course we are told that only +P rounds are enough. Self-appointed shooting gurus have tried to convince us for decades that any handgun in 9mm is all but impotent.

Most of this nonsense is promoted by self-proclaimed "experts" with marginal actual experience, from statistics, or gunwriters ignorantly passing on inaccurate mythology. How few people really have enough experience at gunfighting to make some of the obtuse statements that one reads in the literature? Probably none of them.

How many people who are preaching the gospel of high-powered hollow points, have ever,much less repeatedly, seen what ball rounds do in a firefight?

I will stick with my old, reliable, well-designed handguns and ancient calibers. I do not eschew modern hollow points by any means. But I also have no delusions that they offer much, if any, more effectiveness over ball rounds in the K zone. I avoid +P rounds as the expensive marketing ploy that I believe them to be.

So tear your guns up with high pressure rounds. Play with your plastic, top heavy, defective pistols to your hearts' content. As for me, give me metal or give me a knife!
 
Teuthis, your position is well stated and I know whereof you speak. I tend to prefer proven, timeless handgun and rifle designs. I carry a Colt Cobra and a Smith & Wesson J frame revolver. While these are both built on aluminum frames, the designs are well proven.

On the other hand, I will take issue on one major point. Many experienced gunfighters and military personnel have derided the 9mm as, shall we say, less than ideal or untrustworthy at stopping determined bad guys. Chief among these is Chuck Taylor, a veteran of several civilian gunfights and military campaigns. Read his opinion here.

http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/stoppingpower.html

I agree wholeheartedly with you that many firearms enthusiasts and sportsmen fall victim to guerilla marketing tactics of the firearms manufacturers. The .38 special is as good a self defense round as it was 100 years ago and perhaps better due to improvements in ammunition designs. Similarly, the .30-30 has suffered no degradation in killing power in the deer woods since it was introduced over 116 years ago. I use both of these cartridges with good results.

I think manufacturers are simply catering to the public's need to see new products. Similarly, GM and Ford put out new car designs every year even as my old car gets me to work every day just as well as a newer one. Your preference for classic firearms is not lost on me and I think you are on the right track. Let the others buy plastic jam-o-matic guns and we will have less competition for the older guns.
 
I agree. I do not think modern 'technology' has added much to the work of such men as Mauser and JM Browning. Usually it is an excuse for cheapening production costs or for marketing reasons.

I regularly shoot a 22 LR, 7x57 Mauser and 30-30- all old time rounds- and there is little that newcomers can add to their achievements.
 
I do believe the new Smiths revolvers are good and also the Colt 1911's but I do like the old guns. Have a old Colt Lawman snubbie unshroulded I carry and just picked up a smith model 13. Got to love the old guns!
 
We are presented with new, "hot" calibers, such as the S&W40
:rolleyes:as a 10mm shooter i lol at this!.

as far as new goes, the .40S&W is 20+ years old. maybe you would prefer to go to the "tried and true" cap and ball, as surely those pesky cartridge thingys sure aren't reliable.:barf:
 
I tend to agree with the OP, I can't count the times I've heard..." I bought a new (insert almost ANY brand) and it had (X) problem, but runs now that I got it back from the factory." ***??

In the 60s & 70s I rarely heard of anyone having to send a NEW gun back...they were well made and they freakin' worked! I have never had to send a gun back because it wasn't done right the 1st time.

I've tried to like the plastic, full size, compact, sub-compact Glocks and XDs. I don't hate them, just not my cup-o-tea I guess...since I sold or traded all of them. I prefer the metal and wood 1911s, Colt, S&W, and Ruger revolvers ect. There are VERY few new guns that interest me at all. I keep my eye opened for the older guns that people get rid of so they can buy the new stuff.

Seems to me like guns are going the way of the auto industry, they used to take pride in their product and make it to last a lifetime, then pass them down to your kids...now they seem to make it to last until the next model hits the market.

I'll stick with the older stuff thank you, if I see something new on the market that is made to last, and that runs solid without having to return it because QC didn't do their job...I'll buy it.
 
Of course 'older' is good, proven and worthy.... but,

you know things do improve over time and even if they didn't ... if folks didn't buy the new 'improved' guns then where would we be?
 
I don't really agree with the OP. I have and enjoy shooting 1911's, Browning Hi-Power, and even a Smith 659 just like the OP does. But, I also have a Glock which I have come to rely on as my primary HD/SD weapon. Yes, it's plastic. Yes, it's ugly. But, my Hi-power will rust if I don't baby it with cleanliness and oil. My Stainless 1911's are prone to getting scratched and they too like to be oiled and cleaned to work properly. My Smith 659 is a bulky chunk of stainless steel, but it does work well.

Glocks are every bit as durable and indestructible as any of the other above mentioned guns. They don't rust, don't scratch, don't require constant lubing, and function quite nicely even when filthy. Yes, they are "ugly", but there are every bit as timeless as the Hi-Power, the 1911, or even the Smith 59's.

I do agree with the OP in that 9mm and .38 special are perfectly fine self-defense cartridges - I'm mainlhy a 9mm guy myself. And, eventhough I enjoy shooting 10mm with hearing protection, I dread having to shoot it with naked ears. I goofed and did this once - it was painful. I can't imagine firing off 15 rounds of 10mm in a home defense situation and still having 20% of my hearing intact.
 
My 2c worth

The older guns used to be 'crafted' by hand by masters.... now they seem to be CnC'd & assembled by workers, who don't neccessarily even know what they are making :rolleyes:

Seems to me, now the purchaser becomes the tester of the gun.... any problems.... send it back for repair or replacement (if you are lucky) :rolleyes:
 
if folks didn't buy the new 'improved' guns then where would we be?
Probably in a world where the gun makers had to put quality 1st again...so people would buy their product.;)

BTW, I agree that some improvements were actually improvements, but many were just marketing gimmicks IMHO.
 
I'd sure hate to be driving a car that was made the same year I bought my first new handgun, which was about 1971. There's cars from that period I loved but my more recent cars, especially the Ford Escort that no one ever seemed to write anything about, lasted nearly 200,000 miles. As far as handguns go, the Colt Government Model as made for the army in WWII, was turned out by companies that had never made a firearm before at all, so I don't completely agree with the suggestion that master craftsmen were making them. Besides, some people here think the Colt Government Model is a starter gun that you need to do a lot of fiddling with to make it work properly. Don't our expectations change?

I do agree however that somewhere along the way people have become obsessed with powerful handguns. I expect Elmer Keith had something to do with that. He even said a Model 19 .357 magnum revolver was good for someone with weak hands and that the S&W Model 39 9mm was OK for a pocket pistol.

Lots of times people will complain that they don't make them the way they used to (and I wonder who said that first), while other people are complaining they haven't come out with anything new! I wonder how many times when some gun company has been urged to produce something or other and when they did, no one bought it?
 
while other people are complaining they haven't come out with anything new!

I'm one of those. I'm tired of seeing a bunch of recycled plastic and 1911's. Sig being the exception. EAA has some new stuff that I like too.

There have been some interesting carbines/rifles to come out - RA's XRC, AR piston rifles, Kriss, Sig 556, FN SCAR. A different caliber other than .45 and .223 would be nice, however.

Think about the HK P7, or the Steyr GB, the Glock 17, CZ75 and the Sig P226. These were all guns that hit the market in the 1980's (not all invented in the 1980's I'm aware of that). Each of these designs was exceptional, in my opinion. I just haven't seen anything revolutionary, like the pistols I've mentioned above, come to market. Just variations on variations of old designs.
 
Sorry. Maybe take a look at this web-site: www.firearmsid.com
Many "older" guns have been recalled: S + W mods. 581,586,681,686 (37 mods.) are just a few. 1970's Win mod. 490. At least 54 different Remingtons, Pre 1973 Ruger Blackhawks, Weatherby, Colt, you name it.

Just about everyone has had recalls.

Of course there pretty much aren't recalls before the late 1960's. No consumer protection laws. You wouldn't know about problems until they happened to you or your friends.
 
Teuthis, I love this post and you echo my sentiments exactly. I love my older pistols and take very good care of them. Some day, my kids will inherit them but I am not really into the newer gun models at all. While I am sure the new guns work well, today's models seem unattractive, blocky and rather top heavy with most having grips that are too small (not ALL, but some do).

Nothing against the people who have and love these newer gun models, but they aren't to my taste and I am sorry to see the gun manufacturers abandon these well designed gun models in favor of fads, or plastic frames to save money. I say keep making the newer types of guns for people that want them, but I would love to see Smith & Wesson do a run on some of their 3rd generation pistols again.
 
but I would love to see Smith & Wesson do a run on some of their 3rd generation pistols again.

If they were identical and didn't cut corners, I'd like to see that too! With one exception - I'd like to see them run a batch of double-stacked 10mm's.
 
I like new or old, and have both. My old ones are older than me, of course I'm only 13. Not really, but I love, absolutly love my "New" S&W 327 .357 8 shot revolver with a picatinny rail on the barrel, and I can bolt a rail on top of the gun with no mod's.for a scope or what ever.

All in all, they all go "Boom!", the bullets don't care, and neither do I.:rolleyes:
 
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