Old Quarter Bores

L

ligonierbill

New member
I'm following with interest stagpanthers's work with some newer quarterbore rounds, but I'm sticking with the old ones. ("Old" = older than me.) Three classics: Charles Newton's 250-3000 aka 250 Savage, Ned Robert's 257 Roberts (don't call it "Bob"!), and Roy Weatherby's 257 Weatherby. The last is the newest, circa 1944.

I have 2 rifles in 250-3000, only one of which is a Savage, but it is a Model 20, not a 99. The other is a rebarreled Remington 700. The old Savage is a 24" 1:14 barrel, the Remington a 22" 1:10.

Only one rifle in 257 Roberts, a 24" Shaw barreled Mauser 98.

And one in 257 Weatherby, a Mark V recently rebarreled with a Criterion from Sheridan, WY.

Looking at MPBR (+/- 3" from LOS) and what the rifle will deliver there:

250-3000 (Savage 20) 87 Speer 3,128 MV MPBR 290 yards 2,253 fps 1,079 ft-lb.
250-3000 (Rem 700) 100 Speer 2,945 MV MPBR 270 yards 2,230 fps 1,104 ft-lb.

257 Roberts (Mauser) 100 Barnes TTSX MPBR 290 yards 2,314 fps 1,189 ft-lb.
117 Sierra MPBR 270 yards 2,243 fps 1,307 ft-lb.

257 Weatherby 120 Nosler Partition 3,382 MV MPBR 320 yards 2,589 fps 1,786 ft-lb.

I consider energy a number to pay attention to, not a complete measure of killing power, but note the energy of the 257 "Roy" at 320 yards is the same as a 30-06 SGK 165 at 280 yards.

These 257s are certainly deer and antelope killers. Is the Weatherby an elk round?
 
Is the Weatherby an elk round?
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Don't know personally since I've never hunted or shot one (yet, but will do a build imediately when(ever) my barrel finally gets here). A brief scan of the internet hall of wisdom seems to be a resounding "yes"--but from what I gather you might want to consider using a robust solid like ttsx. I personally would love a 257 roberts--maybe one day...:) My recent 25 creed is one of the most awesome-shooting cartridges I've ever fired, large or small.
 
"Is the Weatherby an elk round?"

Frankly? I don't know.Probably with a reasonably stout bullet and careful choice of shots, it would most likely work OK. Personally? I would much prefer something a bit larger. That's just me.

I have a couple of 257 Roberts; a Winchester M70 Featherweight and a Ruger #1 B. I haven't shot either one very much but the Ruger was very accurate running Norma 100 gr. factory ammo. I can't find them on Norma's web site so I think they've gone extinct.

The M70 Featherweight is an enigma. When my son in law bought one, he asked me to do his load work up for him. I've since taught him how to do it himself. Anyway he wanted to use te 100 gr. Barnes TSX exclusively in that rifle so I worked up a load with IIRC, H4350 that shot around .75" on average. It was an easy work up so when I found my .257 M70 at a gun show I tried working with what worked in his rifle. Total disaster I tried 100 gr. Sierras, both the Pro-Hunter and Game King and so 120 gr. Speer SPFB I'd picked up for a 25-06 but so far nothing has worked in that M70.

The only other quarter bores I have is a pair of Ruger #1s in the B model that show promise.

I just haven't the time to mess with all of them like I used to.
Paul B.
 
The M70 Featherweight is an enigma.
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You're not alone--I bought a model 70 that has been a huge disappointment; during winnie's post-bankruptcy turbulence production of components shifted around, and the one I got arrived fresh from the factory with poor bore finishing. It shoots OK, sometimes; but not as well as other model 70 I've shot. An expensive dust-collector in the safe.
 
That's probably the source of the problem with my rifle. I also have a Featherweight in 7x57 and it shoots just about everything into an inch or less. About the only bullets it does not like are the Barnes TSX. I have good accurate loads with the 140 gr. Ballistic Tips and 150 gr. Partitions though. I haven't decided if I want to rebarrel that .257 Roberts or just get rid of it. Oh well.
Paul B.
 
Well, I don't "need" any of these, although that hasn't slowed me down. But not until I get Charlie Newton's and Ned Roberts' rounds completely sorted out. Just about there. BTW, although plenty have been killed with it (and the 25-06 for that matter), I won't be taking my Weatherby elk hunting. I'm in the big bullet camp on those critters. One of these days, I will have to give the '06 a try.
 
I'll take my Namibia-proven Savage 116 338 Win Mag, or maybe my "new" RUM. Pretty much equivalent to a 340 Weatherby. Honestly, I've started thinking along the lines: 25 is plenty, except when it's not, then take a 338. If that's not enough, I probably can't afford to hunt it.
 
All the hunters I know that use the 300 WbyM on their hunts almost always tag out no matter where they go or what they are hunting; and it's not because they are especially good at doping their distances.:)
 
"Is the Weatherby an elk round?"

Frankly? I don't know.Probably with a reasonably stout bullet and careful choice of shots, it would most likely work OK. Personally? I would much prefer something a bit larger. That's just me.
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It is absolutely an elk round. However, you're correct on good bullets that can retain weight at high impact velocites are a must. I've been hunting with a buddy for over 20 years that has taken elk with a .257 Roberts with 117 grain Sierra GK bullets.

Bullet placement is always key, I've killed most my elk with a .270 Win and either 130 or 150 grain bullets, not much different than a .25-06 with a 120 grain. I've seen elk shot up and ruined by more people who couldn't shoot their "elk rifle" than a guy carrying his trusty "deer rifle".

stagpanther said:
All the hunters I know that use the 300 WbyM on their hunts almost always tag out no matter where they go or what they are hunting
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How many of those hunters are DIY hunters vs. Guided? A guides responsibility is to get a hunter within shooting range of an animal, based on how that guide has assessed his clients shooting skill. A DIY hunter has to learn to be honest with their capabilities, and realize the rifle used doesn't make one successful hunting.

I'm just guessing by the amount of sighting in for other people you do, those hunters aren't the DIY kind of hunters. There is nothing wrong with being a guided hunter, and I'm not saying they can't shoot their WbyM rifles effectively. They just prioritize their time differently, and obviously respect your skills and observations.
 
How many of those hunters are DIY hunters vs. Guided? A guides responsibility is to get a hunter within shooting range of an animal, based on how that guide has assessed his clients shooting skill. A DIY hunter has to learn to be honest with their capabilities, and realize the rifle used doesn't make one successful hunting.

I'm just guessing by the amount of sighting in for other people you do, those hunters aren't the DIY kind of hunters. There is nothing wrong with being a guided hunter, and I'm not saying they can't shoot their WbyM rifles effectively. They just prioritize their time differently, and obviously respect your skills and observations.
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You have skillfully and mostly accurately interpreted between the lines; but the combination of very wide mean point blank range and very high energy delivery makes the 300WbyM a very compelling choice for a general purpose hunting rifle for any type of hunter IMO (except those who are recoil-adverse, maybe). I know a lot of people may tend to look down on the guided hunts as somehow being less sporting--I don't go there and have no strong feelings one way or the other. When I did hunt I more often than not passed up on shots that others would have probably taken, but that was more a self-judgement thing.

In regards to the .257 wby mag, after i developed an appropriate load , familiarized how the bullet would perform on impact and developed the charts associating how those performance aspects changed at different ranges--and practiced doping those ranges and knowing I could hit the right spot to humanely take the game--yup, I'd use the .257 WbyM. I've never met a hunter that actually does that; not saying they don't exist, just most hunters are not also deep-in-weeds types that you encounter on forums like this one.
 
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Stagpanther said, "In regards to the .257 wby mag, after i developed an appropriate load , familiarized how the bullet would perform on impact and developed the charts associating how those performance aspects changed at different ranges--and practiced doping those ranges and knowing I could hit the right spot to humanely take the game--yup, I'd use the .257 WbyM. I've never met a hunter that actually does that; not saying they don't exist, just most hunters are not also deep-in-weeds types that you encounter on forums like this one."

I agree with you 100 percent. When I drew a certain afea in Arizona for elk, I knew shots for the most part would be long. While I don't own a ,257 Weatherby, the rifle I took for that hunt was a Winchester M70 with a blind magazine Winchester stock and 26" barrel. I was getting excellent groups with the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core over a stiff load of WMR powder, Winchester brass and WLR primer. I spent a couple of days a week at the range shoot from 100 yards to 500, mostly from sitting or kneeling positions. The only time I shot off hand was at 100 yards. It paid off nicely as I got my shot at a cow elk at a laser measure 530 yards, on shot and down. Conditions were perfect, about 8 AM, wind calm and the elk had no clue I was there. I'm a firm believer in lots of practice at the distances you think you might encounter. No idea on what the bullet looked like as it passed through the animal and may even still be moving along. I've since found that same load works great in four Ruger #1 rifles I have, all in .300 Win. Mag. Three are S models and on a B. I hadn't tried that load in them at the time of the hunt but looking back think one of them would have worked just as well.
Paul B.
 
Stagpanther, after reading about your disappointing results with the Model 70 in post #4, [and I'm just thinking out loud here] would the Tubb final finishing bullet system maybe help?
You may very well have already considered this solution, but I just thought of it and felt it might be worth considering. It really stinks to have a nice rifle that isn't accurate.
I personally have not tried Tubb's system, but many seem to get good results with it.
Good luck and keep us posted if things improve.

Buckshot Bill
 
I did fire a few of the Tubbs finer polish projectiles--not the whole A-Z program. About 5 inches or so before the muzzle it looks like some grit got caught in a bore reamer/finisher and made several symmetric revolutions imparting a spiral gouge across the lands and grooves. It was made during a transition from bankruptcy for Winchester so it was kinda up in the air who was actually responsible for warranty IIRC. So I just ate it.
 
I’m in the middle of repairing my Savage model 20 stock. Somewhere in the past 104 years, someone over-tightened an action screw and cracked the wood down inside where no one can see it. I’m done with structural work so it’s on to the finishing bit. Hopefully I’ll have it back up and running by the end of summer.
 
Yours is the first other Model 20 I've heard of. Does yours have the Lyman aperture? Mine had a buggered front sight, and I actually had to make a new blade out of brass stock. Shoots good now.
 
"You're not alone--I bought a model 70 that has been a huge disappointment; during winnie's post-bankruptcy turbulence production of components shifted around, and the one I got arrived fresh from the factory with poor bore finishing. It shoots OK, sometimes; but not as well as other model 70 I've shot. An expensive dust-collector in the safe."

I had to look back at this and did have trouble with my 7x57 FWT copper fouling badly. I used a different kiy than the Tubbs and as I had a mold to kake a 7MM bullet I decided to use that instead of a jacketed version. I also used only five bullets with each grit (three grits) instead of the ten each specified. I also finished off using ten bullets treat with JB Bore paste. That did the job and what copper fouling I get cleans out relatively easy.

I don't have a mold for a .257 bullet but I may do it anyway if I can find some of the Hornady 117 gr. RNs to take advantage of the longer bearing surface. Guess I'll just have to take the time out to get it done.
Paul B.
 
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