Old fashioned quick draw

The statistics, that are kept on the subject of accidental discharges, say that most of them happen when a handgun is taken out of or returned to the holster.
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How about using an UNLOADED firearm? It isn't that hard to insure safety. I still say that if you are unable to insure that your firearm is safe then you are not ready for advanced gun handling anyway.

Get the basics of safe firearm handling down pat and then move to a more difficult exercise.
 
Another thought. Buy the right holster / rig for what you'll be doing. If this is for professional or CCW carry than you need to use what you'll wear. I use my DeSantis shoulder rig, horizontal draw when I have a jacket on or my Fobus for shirtsleeve days.
 
BlueTrain said:
...It should be a given that getting your gun, and I mean handgun, into action is critical in a self defense situation. I guess it must be practically an assumed thing since no one seems to go into the subject very deeply, if at all....
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All of the handgun classes I've taken have dealt with this and taught proper, and quick, presentation.

It's something I practice regularly at home dry fire (using snap caps). One range I frequent allows those of us who have qualified to do live fire drills from the holster. And the IPSC/IDPA club I belong to allows on designated practice days live fire practice from the holster and shooting practice stages. There's no reason you can't participate in IPSC and/or IDPA using your carry gun, but some gear might not be allow -- like cross draw holsters, shoulder holsters, belly bands, etc.

When learning these sorts of techniques, go slowly and by the numbers. You are trying for smoothness. And as you get smoother, you will get quicker.
 
Very interesting topic to me. My thoughts on this is that the quick draw, although romanticized in some corners and dismissed by others, is an effective tool for self-defense situations. It's just one more piece of the puzzle. I think it should be practiced regularly just like the other necessary skills. I remember reading in Bill Jordan's fine book No Second Place Winner that a man should not feel like he is a master of the handgun unless he can draw and effectively hit a target in less than a 1/2 second. The best I've done from a thumb strap holster at a target 7 yards away, using the front sight, is just under one second. I've been a civilian LEO for 15 years and I have seen limited emphasis on it. It's not talked about often or practiced on the range much. As a firearms instructor, I do think it is important to talk about and to strive for the quickest, yet smoothest draw, you can get and that includes while moving laterally. I do agree with others that it is about perfect practice. Perfection in movement should be sought before maximum speed is attempted. Economy of motion should be paramount when conducting perfect practice. Obviously, the holster is very important to the draw. I am of firm belief that a good leather thumb strap holster (level 1) is about the best you can get when it comes to an acceptable quick draw/security combination. Personally, I like it better than the index finger release that you see all of the time now.

I have used wax bullets before (revolver). Very easy to load these things up using your reloader. It would all be great except one problem: after a few rounds, I've experienced severe "leading" of the barrel quickly followed by one them getting jammed in the barrel. Cleaning sucked. No more for me at this time.

One last point, I saw that two Tampa Police officers were killed last week by a suspect when they attempted to arrest him for an outstanding warrant. This was on a car stop and during the attempted arrest, the suspect was able to draw a pistol and shoot both officers in the head at close range. I don't know all of the details so comments are limited to it provoked in my mind, the idea of a quick draw and the first guy may not have had a chance but maybe the second guy, with the right mindset, holster, and practice, could have gotten a hit into the suspect. Again, not monday morning quarterbacking, it just got me to thinking.
 
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One last point, I saw that two Tampa Police officers were killed last week by a suspect when they attempted to arrest him for an outstanding warrant. This was on a car stop and during the attempted arrest, the suspect was able to draw a pistol and shoot both officers in the head at close range. I don't know all of the details so comments are limited to it provoked in my mind, the idea of a quick draw and the first guy may not have had a chance but maybe the second guy, with the right mindset, holster, and practice, could have gotten a hit into the suspect. Again, not monday morning quarterbacking, it just got me to thinking.
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The suspect turned himself in a couple days ago. I was told by HCSO deputies that dash cam video captured the whole thing. So soon we will be able to see first hand how this thug was able to kill 2 officers without so much as a response. I was told by several of our customers that this guy was responsible for 3 more murders as well so he is no stranger to killing.
 
The Colt Single Action Army is the fastest shot out of a holster. I have said this numerous times. It is designed to naturally point with one hand. It merely needs to clear a holster to be fired with lethality--no need to raise the gun to eye level at all. It is like pointing a finger.

The Colt is grasped in the holster. The thumb cocks and the hand draws and points. The intended target is fired upon beneath a second and has just captured a bullet.
 
When I mention safety, I am chiefly referring to safety while practicing but obviously you don't want to be more of a danger to yourself than your opponent is.

Nice to see some folks still believe in single action revolvers. He's probably my age. But I think double action revolvers are probably just as fast, easier to load (and unload) and faster on the second shot. For those of you who can get in a little fast draw practice with live ammo, you can leave the first chamber empty so that a second trigger pull is necessary to get off a shot. That makes it a little safer at first.

I wouldn't call fast draw a tool so much as an element of the action, perhaps even a basic element. It probably isn't going to be necessary all that often, nor will blinding speed be possible for most people. But one problem that seems to crop up is who is qualified to progress to even a beginner's level. In other words, some people think that it is an advanced subject of study and something that shouldn't even be attempted until you have mastered every other aspect of shooting handguns. Can you hit an eighteen inch circle at 300 yeards from a supported position with a handgun? Could you kill a rabbit at 50 yards? That's what Elmer Keith thought you should be able to do before even beginning to think about what he called combat quick draw. Of course, rabbits are much bigger where he lived and moreover, he thought the .44 Magnum was perfect for this purpose, which I think I already mentioned.

The only problem with this is that pretty soon you have rationalized away any general right to have a pistol in the first place. Way too dangerous for ordinary folks to have. Better let the pros handle the problem.
 
Hugh O'Brian

I tried to google this but did not find a reference. Hugh O'Brian played Wyat earp on TV in the 50s and was reported as being a fast draw.
I thought he also accidently shot his toe practicing. I can't verify this. Suffice it to say. Be carfull out there.
 
BlueTrain, I hope you didn't take my post as a crusade to stop beginners from learning to draw and fire quickly, accurately, and smoothly. I'm simply saying that if you cannot practice quick draw safely then you shouldn't worry about practicing QD as you have more pressing issues concerning safe gun handling.
 
I do the quick draw with my Colts. I don't understand why some have shot themselves in the foot. The gun is cocked with the thumb and the trigger finger does not fire until that hammer is back. No fanning. All one handed.
I am 52 years old. No DA like SW or Colt or any other feels and draws like a Colt SAA of any barrel length or caliber. None.
I guarantee the first shot from a holstered gun that the fastest is the Single Action Army style. There are other guns of the same style that are just as fast.
But the Colt is my favorite.
It spells COLT when the hammer is thumbed back and it is balanced pointing where it is pointed.
No auto, no other is as fast as the Colt or similar for that first shot.

They say the first shot is the one that counts.
I believe it.
 
threegun...if you get access to that tampa dashcam video i would like to hear the details. I am assuming the suspect fired from inside the vehicle, because had he been removed from the car by the arresting officers they would have searched him, there being an outstanding warrant. :confused:

to keep it on topic...while i dont agree with the criteria Elmer Keith would hold people to, i agree with the sentiment. I would consider myself a fair shot with a handgun, but until i have more practice and can consistently shoot better in a slow fire, controlled environment, I dont see the point of trying to practice any type of drawing and firing. Seems like all i would get out of it at this point are bad habits.
 
I am assuming the suspect fired from inside the vehicle, because had he been removed from the car by the arresting officers they would have searched him, there being an outstanding warrant.
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I am picturing the incident happening while the suspect is outside the car, at the moment he was being told he was under arrest. Can't see him murdering both of the officers (in the head) while seated in the car.

Here is a quote from the Tampa Chief: Chief Castor said as soon as they put their hands on the suspect, the man spun around, pulled out a gun and shot both officers in the upper body.
 
backpedaling

..backpedaling..
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Agree with Gunsite and others; you wouldn't want to continue moving straight backwards. But when I mentioned backpedaling, it was just one part of a drill, which has you taking 2-3 steps backwards out of immediate contact distance (as if grappling upright) while drawing, and firing on one or multiple targets. It was not a "tactical" recommendation per se.

Likewise, in the previous posting, I had mentioned moving off-line from the attacker and immediately directing your movement towards cover as a tactical recommendation, and something that most military/LE training has trended towards over the last five years. I also mentioned target & background identification, which nobody ever seems to talk about.

Remember that you might not always be drawing on somebody who has a gun. In my opinion (and it is shared by many) a knife has the potential to be far more lethal within 4 feet. Given the option, I would elect to be shot by a .45 caliber in the shoulder from 4 feet than slashed in the shoulder with a 4.5 inch blade.

I find it amusing that 3 or 4 posters pick up on one single word in a post, take it out of context, and admonish the "practice" as not "tactically sound."
 
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In my opinion a DA is superior to SA only when it comes to reloading speed. If you cock the hammer as the gun comes down from recoil you'll be firing just as fast. Of course if your just pulling the trigger and not aiming the double action will be faster but then again the single action can be fanned.

However, unless in the backcountry most of us won't be carrying single action revolvers, they're a bit to large to easily conceal. I like carrying Smith Airweights but to me they almost seem too small and too light to draw quickly. You really have to make sure you get a positive grip before pulling the gun from the holster.
 
I find it amusing that 3 or 4 posters pick up on one single word in a post, take it out of context, and admonish the "practice" as not "tactically sound."
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In your post you didn't say "short distance". I assumed the drill was to draw and fire while backpedaling. That IMO isn't sound tactically.

I don't think short bursts of back peddling is unsound may even be necessary to get the body/firearm in order under certain conditions. I don't like a backpedaling drill because it puts this tool into the students tool box which might be the one they grab if the SHTF. But I also don't think the twisting and spinning as one is trying to draw is helpful either. So I would have to say BP in short bursts could provide some advantage without the risks associated with it IE stumbling and falling.
 
To threegun, no offence taken. I also do not agree with Elmer Keith's criteria for "advance handgun shooting" nor his concept of handgunnery in general. I am speaking here of a handgun carried entirely for self defense and it is assumed to be carried concealed, although Keith did in fact carry his .44 N frame concealed and did show fast draw with his rig, which is still available from the original manufacturer.

To me, what you can do with a handgun at fifty yards, never mind 300 yards, is irrelevant to the requirements. In fact, being able to make a smooth draw, perhaps more important than a fast/quick draw, is basic, rather than advanced. Naturally it is in the interest of those who teach such things to call it an advanced skill that requires a trip to a professional firearms instructor before you can call yourself competant. I just don't believe that much is necessary. Of course I never went to a professional driver's school either.
 
Naturally it is in the interest of those who teach such things to call it an advanced skill that requires a trip to a professional firearms instructor before you can call yourself competent. I just don't believe that much is necessary.
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You really don't need a professional teacher. Problem is a pro will shave lots of time off your learning curve and correct anything they see wrong. With all the literature available today someone with the ability to think defensively can assemble a great set of tactics on their own.

Heck someone came up with it to begin with so why not us?
 
They say the first shot is the one that counts.
I believe it.
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You might want to rethink that last statement of yours. I know lots of people who can get shots off quicker than I can. I also know that my target usually looks a lot better than theirs. Its the first "GOOD" shot that counts. 3 misses aint gonna make it in my world. It was one of the first things I had to teach to my new cop and deputy students who wanted to learn how to fast draw and I was still trying to get them to group on paper at 50'.

My teaching them to practice s-l-o-w m-o-t-i-o-n didn't go over well either but eventually their speed came with repetition as they developed the muscle memory. Everybody is in such a hurry........................okay, I admit, 40 years ago I was just as bad but I learned and if this thick headed old Bohunk can learn anybody can learn.
 
Many methods of carry dont lend well to a quick draw.

Ankle holsters, some shoulder holsters, belly bands, deep IWB holsters, pocket carry.
 
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