Old CCI .38spec Ammo.

G

Gaz_in_NZ

New member
Hi,
I picked up some "older" CCI .38spec ammo yesterday and have had no luck finding out anything about it.
The reason is that there is still a shortage of pistol ammo in New Zealand (hunting rounds for rifles are in abundance) and as I don't yet load my own I came across these in a local gun shop cheap (well cheap for here, ammo is very expensive in NZ).
They are jacketed, Nickel case (doesn't look like Aluminum) in boxes of 50 and the boxes are yellow, black writing, with CCI in a red diamond... and the thing that makes me dubious about how old they are is that they are "hecho en Mexico"... didn't know that CCI had ever been made in Mexico.
Any ideas about them?

Forgot to add, they are 158grain noses.

Thanks in advance.
G
 
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I've never personally seen any nickle cases from CCI. I've never known of them building ammo in mexico either though. I've only ever seen aluminum or brass cases. Are you sure these are factory CCI and not something someone else has replaced in the box?
There is a lot of things I've never seen though...we live and learn.
 
OK, CCI had a facility in San Luis Potosi, Mexico.

I've only been able to find .22 ammunition made by them, but it appears that what you're describing is, in fact, CCI ammunition.
 
Thanks guys, really appreciate you taking the time.
Yes, it does say "San Luis Potosi, Mexico" on the boxes, just did what my wife calls a "man read" and failed to see it.
I'll take some photos this morning and post 'em.
I've never seen boxes like these and still would like to know how old they are.
Don't know how they will perform as I won't be able to shoot any 'till Sunday.

Thanks once more,
Cheers
G
 
Here are some photos : -
Head Stamp...

The ones out of the CCI boxes are stamped CCI and the ones from the CI boxes are stamped CI.

Boxes


And something that is worrying me about how safe these will be to shoot...


Quite a few of them are exhibiting this Grey deposit possibly from the propellant(?)which has started to break down and push its way out.
So, I need some advice on what this grey stuff may be, and would these thing be safe to shoot or not.

Should I take them back to the gun shop?

Thanks in advance for the advice and info,
Cheers
G


p.s.
Also found this list that may be useful to someone... And it looks like this ammo could be as early as mid 1960's :eek:
I was only 12 or 13 years old then!!!

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

Cheers again....
G
 
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OK, apparently both boxes are cartridges were loaded by the Mexican CCI subsidiary.

CCI Omark was part owner of the facility from the mid 1960s until the 1990s.

Those boxes are very likely 1960s to early 1970s.

I'm not sure what that gray stuff is around the case mouths. I doubt that it's decomposing propellant, though -- when that happens it tends to force the bullet out of the case, not exude up around it.

If you have a bullet puller you can try disassembling a cartridge to see if you can get any more insight as to what is going on.
 
I don't have a bullet puller unfortunately. I also bought a box of lead nose (no jacket) at the same time which doesn't exhibit the same gray stuff around the crimp. Could be corrosion between the Ni case and what ever the jacket is made from.
I think I'll probably end up not shooting them and taking them back to the shop and asking for a refund.
One thing noticeable is that I can't hear any powder rattling in the case when I shake it.

Cheers
G
 
"One thing noticeable is that I can't hear any powder rattling in the case when I shake it."

That's not particularly indicative of anything, really.
 
Odd. If that were a bottlenecked cartridge, I'd suggest perhaps it was lube from the case mouth. Is it hard or soft? Does it come away easily ?
 
I surmise that the grey deposits are the remains of some sort of sealant that was applied to waterproof the case mouth- perhaps some sort of wax.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 
It comes away easily, but stays in one piece and isn't brittle but neither is it very soft, best description is it has the feeling (and compliance) of a strand of green "Scotch Brite" pad or a strand from one of those shiny metallic pan scourers.

After removal and cleaning around the cartridge neck with a tissue and a thumb nail there is no sign of corrosion or discoloring on the case or the bullet so it probably is 50 year old Lube.

Odd there isn't any on the Lead nose I bought but on further examination the gray stuff is only on the ammo stamped CCI, the ones stamped CI don't show signs of it.

I'd have to say there is a high probability of it being old lube so I really don't feel so bad about firing it on Sunday at the Pistol Club.

I'll let you know how they go if I can chrono a couple of them I will.

Any more ideas and suggestions very welcome.

Cheers
and many thanks to all who replied,
G
 
The stuff being a strand tends to rule out powder or some sort of electrolytic reaction. IMHO

I'm betting you'll get between 700 and 800fps.

The most common problem with old ammo is either FTF or squibs.

I've read of some powders getting volatile as they age. But all those stories are about older surplus ammo.

If these rounds are under 50 years old you shouldn't have any of those problems.
 
Lead does that grey as it ages. I would not fear using those. But for indoor use, wear a breathing mask. The grey dust will be in the air.
 
And you've also got the "Bala Con Punta Blindada" and "Bala Con Punta De Plomo" as well that sound very exotic for a description of what's in the ammo box. :D

Just noticed that it has "Niqulado" on the box under the "38 Especial" (assuming that's Mexican for Nickel) and they do look like Nickel cases (as opposed to Aluminum)... neat.


Very unlikely to be oxidized lead as these are FMJ's.
Deffo looks more like some sort of lube that's gone hard and gray in the 40 or 50 years they have been in the boxes as it cleans off quite easily with a cloth and a thumb nail and it hasn't left any visible staining or corrosion pits under it.

I am much less worried about shooting it now, but I'd always rather get the advice of people who know more about these types of things than I do before sticking 6 of 'em in a 686 and pulling the trigger.

I always prefer to be careful rather than taking a potential risk to myself and possibly other people especially where firearms and ammo are concerned.

Also, it's an outside range with a rain covering over the shooting line so a mask isn't really necessary... unless I'm next to Barry shooting his .44 Cap and Ball black powder piece. :)

Cheers to all for the input,
G
 
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While we're on the subject, can anyone translate these figures from the back of the box into something I can understand please?

Pies/seg... lbs/plug ???
I could make an educated guess but I'd rather know for sure.




Cheers
G
 
Rough translation:

Armored with bullet tip (Bala Con Punta Blindada on top of box)

Its bullet of 10.2 grams (158 grains) with armored tip, is prelubricated sheath especially to prevent the deterioration of the weapons. Contributing to obtain an output speed of 261 m/sec (855 feet / sec. ) with a pressure of 1.111 kgs cm 15.800 lb / inch these cartridges can be used in the following revolvers: .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .38 S&W Special.

I'm not sure what "armored tip" means, perhaps just that it is a jacketed bullet. This also sound like they might be lubricated bullets, do they feel waxy? Then obviously just velocity and pressure info and the obvious guns that safely chamber .38 Especial. I wouldn't worry about shooting them but I personally would hang on to some, they are pretty cool! Hope this helped. :D
 
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Cheers for the translation, much appreciated.
Yes they do have a slightly waxy feel to them and I think that is the stuff that has gone hard and gray around the top of the cases.

I paid $35NZ per box and it is usually twice that much in New Zealand and the guy at the gun shop reckons he has a load more of it that he imported "quite a while ago". He still has it 'cause there aren't many handgun shooters over here and most of them use semi-auto pistols and they all load their own and very rarely buy Factory ammo, my own preference is for a revolver.
Most shooters are hunters and spends days away in the bush with high powered hunting rifles/shotguns and to be honest very few of them know one end of a firearm from the other. Getting an "A" category License here is very easy, that gives you access to everything except Handguns, Assault weapons, Machine guns, fully auto gear and stuff like that.
You can get a "A" cat without knowing much about guns and as long as you can pass a 30 question multiple choice exam (my 13 year old got 30 out of 30 but unfortunately he's not eligible for a license 'till he's 16) you can go buy a rifle/shotgun, boxs of ammo and go off into the bush and shoot things with no real training what so ever.
"B" Cat endorsement allows handguns and you have to be an active member of a pistol club, "C" endorsement allows "collectibles" WW2 Machine guns etc (you are not supposed to shoot them but a friend of mine has a beautiful WWII German 9mm Schmeiser machine gun that does get a few put through it "just to keep it up to scratch"), "E" endorsement gets you Hi Capacity mags, fully auto, assault type weaponry and all sorts of neat stuff. "D" endorsement is basically for firearms dealers and doesn't give you any rights to shoot the things you sell. You need a good reason before getting a B,C,D and E cat endorsement or multiples there of.

Sorry it was a bit of a rambling reply...
Cheers
G
 
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