Old cartridge firing designs. Care to name some?

It looks like the intent of the law was to "control" modern guns (and hence the people), and that they just picked 1870 out of the air as a convenient date. U.S. lawmakers did the same with 1898; made before or during that year, a gun is an unregulated antique; made after, it is a "modern" gun. They could have as easily said 1345 or 1620 or 1776; to lawmakers who have no real knowledge of or interest in a subject, those "details" are of no concern - just pass some kind of law and go get drunk.

Jim
 
I do like how they pick 1898, a Krag built in 1897 is a antique, yet one built in 1898 is a modern firearm and has to go thru the BS to buy one. It should be 100yrs or older based on the design, not date of manufacture.
 
I dunno, Jim, I think the European restrictors were better advised in their choice of cutoff date. 1870 cuts out the large majority of shootable cartridge guns.

1898 lets in a lot of Mauser rifles and even some Mauser pistols, plus a lot of shotguns.
 
If you can have replicas, then why not a replica 1860 Henry, or a replica 1866 winchester. Both in currently available pistol calibers.
Remington rolling blocks first came out in the 1860s. I have one in 58 Berdan. Involved a lot of custom ordering of cases and custom dies, has to be loaded with black powder, but hits like a freight train.
 
Someone above mentioned the 1863 Sharps. iirc they were paper cartridge guns not metallic. You wouldn't have to worry about obsolete cartridges in that case.

"Paper cutters" are plenty accurate and even with a full load of black powder they don't kick a great deal.

A friend had an Italian reproduction back in the 1970s and it was real fun to shoot.
 
Buzzcook,

The OP specified a pre-1870 rifle design. The 1863 Sharps has a number of "cartridge conversions" that generally happened after that date. Yes it would be easier to get an 1873 off the bat, but a cartridge conversion seems to meet the legal standard Pond is looking for.

Jimro
 
Also if you go with a large action Martini, it's plenty strong enough for lower level loads with Unique or 2400. This would be in the neighborhood trap-door Springfield .45-70 loads. A lot of these were sold to the Ottoman Empire and I've heard they're all over the Middle East but I'm clueless about who would be exporting them...

Do you have to give any explanation of what powders you use? Like if you only have rifles and you buy what's considered a mostly handgun powder...

This serves to remind us how lucky we really are in the USA. I don't think I could have built up the loading supply stash I have under those rules...

BTW, there was a lot of those Martini rifles converted to .303 Brit after that round became the standard British military round. The hard part is finding the rifle in good condition...
 
Do you have to give any explanation of what powders you use?
Click to expand...

To buy powders you need to be a hunter or sports-shooter and have a licence for that weapon: that is the requirement. You can't own ammo for any gun for which you don't a licence and you can't own a gun without a licence unless it fits this two-line rule about pre-1870 designs.

As for one's choice of powder, well, no that doesn't seem to be an issue.
 
James, look into the .50-70 Government (.50 Musket). Introduced in 1866, used in Springfield single shot (trapdoor) rifles until replaced by the .45-70 in 1873. A friend of mine has one, although I'm pretty sure his rifle is a reproduction 1873 model.

The cartridge satisfies the 1870 or earlier requirement, and can be loaded with black powder or some smokeless. I have a couple loads in my books using IMR 3031 and IMR 4198.

You would have to do a little research about which Springfield single shot model is correct for a pre 1870 design. I'm no expert on them. I'll ask around, might know more in a few days...

I will add that, when you do find a reproduction of a suitable gun by design age, that you obtain documentation of the design history, because it sounds like you will have to obtain a decision/approval from a govt agent, who, in your situation is most likely NOT going to be well versed in arcane firearms lore. See if you can get a book (or several) on the rifle, so you have something "official" to show that it actually was designed before 1870. Perhaps even better, have your local library get a copy of the book (pay for it yourself, if you have to) and then, if the govt official wants some kind of "proof" you can tell him about how the proof is in a book in the library, which he can check out and read himself. It will seem more "official" that way.

A library book carries more weight to the un/under informed than some helpful web site. Just a thought.
 
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