Okay to carry with hammer down on a round?
- Thread starter SMITH910
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XavierBreath
New member
Modern S&W revolvers, and almost all others, are safe to carry with a full cylinder. They now have a transfer bar and frame mounted firing pin.
Years ago, a sailor dropped a S&W Victory model on a navy ship around 1945. The pistol discharged. I'm unsure of injuries, but apparently it caused a ruckus.
S&W, as a result, retrofitted all military Model 10s with a hammer block safety. Every revolver after that had a hammer block safety, until they went to frame mounted firing pins and transfer bars.
On SA Colts and SA Colt reproductions, the standard is still to load one skip one load four more to end up with an empty chamber under the hammer. On DA revolvers, if there is a hammer block or transfer bar, it just is not necessary.
Years ago, a sailor dropped a S&W Victory model on a navy ship around 1945. The pistol discharged. I'm unsure of injuries, but apparently it caused a ruckus.
S&W, as a result, retrofitted all military Model 10s with a hammer block safety. Every revolver after that had a hammer block safety, until they went to frame mounted firing pins and transfer bars.
On SA Colts and SA Colt reproductions, the standard is still to load one skip one load four more to end up with an empty chamber under the hammer. On DA revolvers, if there is a hammer block or transfer bar, it just is not necessary.
ALL THE MANUFACTURERS well you not to carry with a round under the hammer.
I have been carrying with a round under the hammer for 46 years. No dropping it on the hammer and not safety problems. I used to carry a Ruger Super Blackhawk[.44 Magnum] in a Bianch shoulder holster, all the time.
I would say, 5 or 6 rounds is up to you.
I have been carrying with a round under the hammer for 46 years. No dropping it on the hammer and not safety problems. I used to carry a Ruger Super Blackhawk[.44 Magnum] in a Bianch shoulder holster, all the time.
I would say, 5 or 6 rounds is up to you.
I HAVE heard of leaving the next chamber empty from several sources. It is the equivalent of using a manual safety on a DA auto - a hedge against getting your gun turned on you.
I can't see why that would qualify as "dumb", but it does throw a large percentage of your capacity away.
I can't see why that would qualify as "dumb", but it does throw a large percentage of your capacity away.
Several single action models are not safe to carry with the hammer down on a live round. The most notable of these is the Colt Single Action Army and many reproductions of it. One of Ruger's main selling points for the Blackhawk many years ago was that it could be carried with all six chambers loaded thanks to the trasfer bar safety. As has been pointed out, most any modern DA revolver is safe to carry with all six chambers loaded because they have either some sort of trasfer bar or rebounding hammer affair (if not a combination of the two).
Majic,
I used the word "dumb" as a polite version of the real word.
Two things come to mind- what's the normal reaction to a misfire (click) going to be for most people (most likely two or three followup tries, and one or more of those will not be a click), and why reduce your own defensive capability by downloading one round?
It's slightly reminiscent of the old LAPD "safety first" plan in ammo selection: "We'll give our guys ineffective .38 Special roundnose ammo so if they lose their gun & get shot with it they'll have a better chance of survival."
Fortunately they buried that idea where it belonged long ago.
How about loading your gun, learning a couple basic retentions, and planning not to let it be taken away from you? I consider Barney's pocket cartridge to be a better solution to worries about being shot with your own gun if you fear it that much. Or, don't carry one.
Maybe it comes from growing up around guns, 28 years in uniforms, going through some very good schools taught by some very knowlegeable people, and time spent as a departmental firearms instructor, but I honestly wonder where some of these ideas come from. I've never heard that one before & find it counterproductive, at the very least. You also pointed out another very good reason for not doing it, deliberately inducing a handicap by slowing yourself down if you have to fire with the necessity of clicking past that dead chamber.
I could use stronger words, but you can probably tell what I think of the idea. :barf:
Denis
I used the word "dumb" as a polite version of the real word.
Two things come to mind- what's the normal reaction to a misfire (click) going to be for most people (most likely two or three followup tries, and one or more of those will not be a click), and why reduce your own defensive capability by downloading one round?
It's slightly reminiscent of the old LAPD "safety first" plan in ammo selection: "We'll give our guys ineffective .38 Special roundnose ammo so if they lose their gun & get shot with it they'll have a better chance of survival."
Fortunately they buried that idea where it belonged long ago.
How about loading your gun, learning a couple basic retentions, and planning not to let it be taken away from you? I consider Barney's pocket cartridge to be a better solution to worries about being shot with your own gun if you fear it that much. Or, don't carry one.
Maybe it comes from growing up around guns, 28 years in uniforms, going through some very good schools taught by some very knowlegeable people, and time spent as a departmental firearms instructor, but I honestly wonder where some of these ideas come from. I've never heard that one before & find it counterproductive, at the very least. You also pointed out another very good reason for not doing it, deliberately inducing a handicap by slowing yourself down if you have to fire with the necessity of clicking past that dead chamber.
I could use stronger words, but you can probably tell what I think of the idea. :barf:
Denis
Sir William
New member
I have always carried my own revolvers full up. In the SAA, the security of a holster and retention is the issue NOT the weapon. The use of multiple and redundant safeties allow full up carry. I have carried S&W M1902s and M1905s full up for years with none going off.
Holly cow!!
Put ammo in the gun you prefer to be shot with? That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard... more practical, if that was their way of thinking, was not to carry a gun in the first place. Same if you are worried about a BG taking the weapon from you.
Kind of like the folks that say. Yes, I have a gun at home for protection but I don't know if I could really shoot someone...
My advise is either change your thinking or sell the gun to someone who is willing to use it if need be.
Put ammo in the gun you prefer to be shot with? That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard... more practical, if that was their way of thinking, was not to carry a gun in the first place. Same if you are worried about a BG taking the weapon from you.
Kind of like the folks that say. Yes, I have a gun at home for protection but I don't know if I could really shoot someone...
My advise is either change your thinking or sell the gun to someone who is willing to use it if need be.
"I used the word "dumb" as a polite version of the real word."
I didnt say I did it this way, gee liten up. 2 of my cousins are on the Omaha force, Uncle was a Washington county deputy, he taught me about guns in the 60s at teh age of 5.
Try to be nice, i care not about your "qualifications" as most cops I know are "not as knowledgeable" in my field of expertise, do I call them dumb? No, I try to gently educate them in a friendly manner. Thanks for your reply, I will try to not post anything you may take as dumb. Research what I posted, old timers will remember.....things you never thought of...
I carry 6 in my ruger gp100. 16 in my ruger p95dc, ccw. been shooting since 63 or so...
I didnt say I did it this way, gee liten up. 2 of my cousins are on the Omaha force, Uncle was a Washington county deputy, he taught me about guns in the 60s at teh age of 5.
Try to be nice, i care not about your "qualifications" as most cops I know are "not as knowledgeable" in my field of expertise, do I call them dumb? No, I try to gently educate them in a friendly manner. Thanks for your reply, I will try to not post anything you may take as dumb. Research what I posted, old timers will remember.....things you never thought of...
I carry 6 in my ruger gp100. 16 in my ruger p95dc, ccw. been shooting since 63 or so...
First a question: I have a copy of a Peace Maker from Interarms in .44 mag. Safe to carry full? I never thought about it being an older design.
Second, I've heard guys carrying autos with the chamber empty just incase it was taken away. They claim it takes a second to rack the slide, but (when the BG tries to shoot) it may give you enough time to retreve the weapon, escape, get another weapon etc....... Any thoughts?
Ken
Second, I've heard guys carrying autos with the chamber empty just incase it was taken away. They claim it takes a second to rack the slide, but (when the BG tries to shoot) it may give you enough time to retreve the weapon, escape, get another weapon etc....... Any thoughts?
Ken
Peacemaker replica
Wingbone,
I don't know about your particular model, but many of these replicas are not safe with one under the hammer. I wouyld say that if in doubt with a s/a, I would lean to the side of caution,and carry with the chamber empty.
As to the auto loader, these weapons were designed to be carried"hot".Proper training, familiarity with the weapon,and good equipment should lead to a safe experiencewith any modern quality automatic.
Hope this has been some help.
Blair
Wingbone,
I don't know about your particular model, but many of these replicas are not safe with one under the hammer. I wouyld say that if in doubt with a s/a, I would lean to the side of caution,and carry with the chamber empty.
As to the auto loader, these weapons were designed to be carried"hot".Proper training, familiarity with the weapon,and good equipment should lead to a safe experiencewith any modern quality automatic.
Hope this has been some help.
Blair
MarkJ,
Never said YOU were dumb, or implied that you were. I noticed you said you didn't do it that way, I was commenting on an idea I see no sense in. My comments were directed at the idea, not you.
Just because an "old timer" used to do something doesn't make it sensible.
Wingbone,
As for carry with an empty chamber in an auto, that one's been done to death. Make your own decision on what state of readiness you want to be in vs how much you want to handicap yourself out of fear of losing your gun.
My own father, an "old timer", used to carry his Colt 1911 with an empty chamber in uniform on patrol as a deputy in Idaho. Much as I respect him and what he did during his career, I think that was very ill-advised & he was very fortunate he never needed to use it in a hurry. I wanted the capability for instant one-handed use out of the holster if I ever needed it when I carried a .45 Auto on the job. Did not want to be delayed in a threat response by having to rack the slide first. That's how pros carry the gun, it's how pro instructors teach the gun.
Denis
Never said YOU were dumb, or implied that you were. I noticed you said you didn't do it that way, I was commenting on an idea I see no sense in. My comments were directed at the idea, not you.
Just because an "old timer" used to do something doesn't make it sensible.
Wingbone,
As for carry with an empty chamber in an auto, that one's been done to death. Make your own decision on what state of readiness you want to be in vs how much you want to handicap yourself out of fear of losing your gun.
My own father, an "old timer", used to carry his Colt 1911 with an empty chamber in uniform on patrol as a deputy in Idaho. Much as I respect him and what he did during his career, I think that was very ill-advised & he was very fortunate he never needed to use it in a hurry. I wanted the capability for instant one-handed use out of the holster if I ever needed it when I carried a .45 Auto on the job. Did not want to be delayed in a threat response by having to rack the slide first. That's how pros carry the gun, it's how pro instructors teach the gun.
Denis
) and all chambers loaded. They are equiped with transfer bars or hammer blocks that make them drop safe.