Ok this just happened I need middle name now.

As I understand it, when a state makes the claim that their DL meets the REAL ID requirement, it must actually meet those requirements.

Obviously not all states meet the requirements at this time and have some time to make the changes, but some states claim that they are already compliant. NY is one, TX is another and I'm sure there are others.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Perhaps one of the active FFLs on the forum can tell us if there has been a recent directive from the BATFE on this.
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Since 2012 I've worked at three different FFLs in two different states, and I'm not aware of any ATF directive on this. This issue appears to depend on which ATF IOI is dealing with the FFL.

This became an issue at the second FFL I worked at in WA. I'd been working there for about a year, and -- just like at my previous FFL -- we never required a customer to have their full middle name on their license. In WA (and in many other states) the DMV often just puts the middle initial on the drivers license, and this was enough to verify the buyer's identity.

But then we received an email out if the blue from our ATF contact that said we now had to require the customer to write on the 4473 the exact middle name that appeared on their drivers license. So that meant if the customer only had their middle initial on their DL our ATF IOI wanted us to instruct the customer to put just that initial as their middle name on the 4473 and follow it with "IO" (for "initial only") indicating they only had a middle initial for their legal middle name, even if that wasn't the case. That didn't make much sense to use, but since our ATF guy told us to do it that way, that's how we started to do it.

Then a few months later he sent us a follow-up email. Now he said that if the customer had a full middle name but only had their middle initial on their DL, then that wasn't sufficient info to sell them a firearm. In that case the customer would also have to supply a second government-issued document that had their full middle name on it. The funny thing is that our second store location never got these instructions at all (each location is a separate FFL and treated separately by the ATF). So our other store was still able to sell guns to customers using a DL that only had their middle initial on it.

And now that I work at an FFL in PA, there's nothing about requiring customers have documentation of their full middle name; PA drivers licenses also often abbreviate the middle name and it's not an issue at all. At least not yet, maybe it's only a matter of time before the ATF makes us verify the customer's middle name.
 
Mal H said:
That would mean Harry S. Truman wouldn't be able to purchase a handgun in your state!

(He had no middle name.)
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I don't think that's the issue the OP is referring to. In the case where a buyer simply has an initial for their middle name, the ATF instructs them to write that initial on the 4473 and then put "IO" right after it for "initial only". That was never an issue in the experience I talk about in my previous post, and I don't think that's what the OP is talking about.

The issue the OP seems to be running into is that some ATF Industy Ops inspectors appear to be telling FFLs that if their drivers license says their middle name is just an initial but that's not actually the case, then the buyer needs to provide supplemental documentation that shows their full legal name. But like I said in my previous post, this doesn't seem to be consistent and it appears to depend on which ATF Industry Ops person the FFL is dealing with.

I can tell you this: In my experience the things the ATF tells FFLs to do often vary wildly. Some of the things we were told to do at my first FFL were different from what we were told to do at my second FFL, even though the two shops were in the same city. And some of the things we were told to do (or were never told not to do) at my two FFLs in WA were different from here in PA, even though I'm only referring to federal issues, not state ones.
 
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Not a problem for me; I have no middle name. Neither does my brother, but my sister does have one. Not sure why my parents made that decision, but I find life easier without the hassle of having a middle name at all. I do have to fill in "NMI" (no middle initial) on some forms where they insist on having a middle initial listed.
 
I have a middle name. I actually go by my middle name. Given a choice, I fill out forms with first initial, middle name, and last name. Surprisingly few forms are formatted in such a way that I can do so. I sign almost everything with first two initials and last name. Fortunately, it has never caused me any difficulty in buying a firearm. Unfortunately, my life is an unending stream of people calling me by the wrong name.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjoe
So apparently its not a federal requirement for a real Id to have your full middle name.


Franken Mauser :It is a requirement, but some mistakes (or omissions) may slip through the cracks.
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Wow. I have to wonder now if I will have problems using my real id in 2020
 
Not to mention cultures in which the order of names is different.
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That includes Hispanic. In most (if not all) Hispanic countries, women don't change their last name when they marry. The full version of a Spanish name uses the father's last name followed by the mother's last name. In the short version, the mother's last name is dropped. The "intermediate" version has the mother's last name reduced to an initial. Thus:

If Juan Cortez [father's name] Barrios [mother's name] marries Maria Gonzalez [father's name] Rivera {mother's name], a son named Carlos would carry the following name:

Carlos Cortez Gonzalez (long version)
Carlos Cortez (short version)
Carlos Cortez G. (intermediate version)

This completely befuddles most American systems because we see Carlos Cortez Gonzales and assume that Gonzales is the legal last name. In his native country it's not -- it's the mother's last name, and that's the name that gets dropped or truncated in less formal/legal usage.
 
I'm not aware of any statute or ATF opinion requiring an ID to have the full middle name printed on it. I was in the business for many years, so unless something changed (paging dogtown tom!), this sounds like Academy's policy and not law.
 
(NMN)

I'm not aware of any statute or ATF opinion requiring an ID to have the full middle name printed on it.
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Nor I and have filled in that space with (NMN) As I don't have one, and it's accepted. ..… :confused:

Be Safe !!!
 
I work at a Gun store in Texas and as it was said above, one can put “IO” or “NMN” in that far right box. I’m not sure how common it is but I am even made to get them to put the quotations for each of those written in with them.
Academy does not have a reliably proficient handlers. For all we know, they could be working in the Firearms section today but they normally work in the shoes section.
 
Pahoo said:
Nor I and have filled in that space with (NMN) As I don't have one, and it's accepted. ..…
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Not even the BATFE can force you to take on a new middle name if there wasn't one on your birth certificate. I think the issue is people who have a middle name but who (like me) use just the middle initial as their legal signature. Just about every piece of identification I carry has only the middle initial: my drivers license; two different state-issued IDs related to my work; all my credit cards; four out of five carry permits; Medicare card; VA Healthcare ID card. There are probably a couple more, but those are the one I can think of off-hand.

My passport includes the full middle name, but I don't carry either the passport or the passport card on a daily basis.
 
The Evil Pawn Shop Guy told me about this a few days ago.

The Evil Pawn Shop Guy told me about this a few days ago.

My parents named me Howard Hughes Graham,,,
Back in 1978 I had my name changed to Howard Hughes Aarond Graham.

I wanted to change it to Aarond H. Graham,,,
But my Mom pitched a fit so I just added Aarond to the original.

This is where it gets dodgy.

The Air Force lawyer I used said to get all of my new ID cards as Aarond H. Graham,,,
He advised me that it was perfectly legal to use a derivative of your name,,,
It's kind of like a man named Johnathan using Johnny as a legal name,,,
In fact, it's called a Legal Alias.

So every ID I have had since 1978 has Aarond H. Graham on it,,,
That includes my Social Security Card.

The Patriot Act changed a lot of that though,,,
It didn't make my "alias" illegal,,,
Just inconvenient to use.

Several years ago, Oklahoma changed it's laws to conform to the Patriot Act,,,
The name on your driver's license must now match your birth certificate.

Or in my case, the legal papers that are my Name Change Document.

So my drivers license now has Howard Hughes Aarond Graham on it,,,
Which is fortunate for me because I can use it to comply with the new regulation.

I'll be testing it out next week,,,
I'm ordering a Phoenix Arms HP-22 Range Kit.

Aarond

.
 
I have a middle name. I actually go by my middle name. Given a choice, I fill out forms with first initial, middle name, and last name. Surprisingly few forms are formatted in such a way that I can do so. I sign almost everything with first two initials and last name. Fortunately, it has never caused me any difficulty in buying a firearm. Unfortunately, my life is an unending stream of people calling me by the wrong name.
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Every sentence of that applies to me, but there are times I just give in and let them call me by my first name. It is actually handy when someone calls my office and claims to be a friend to get past my receptionist. If they call me by my first name, they don't know me, or they know me only from a form, and their claims of being pals can be seen as false.
 
Perfect

Yup I use that technique too tailgator. My first name is actually Frederick, everybody that knows me knows I go by the diminutive Rick.

I expect people I don't know to call me Fred, and that is of course OK, it's a fine name. It's just not "my" name.

My wife is also my Admin. assistant. She knows not to transfer calls to me if they ask for Fred, and they are claiming to know me.

It can actually be kinda fun.
 
TailGator said:
Every sentence of that applies to me, but there are times I just give in and let them call me by my first name. It is actually handy when someone calls my office and claims to be a friend to get past my receptionist. If they call me by my first name, they don't know me, or they know me only from a form, and their claims of being pals can be seen as false.
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Ricklin said:
Yup I use that technique too tailgator. My first name is actually Frederick, everybody that knows me knows I go by the diminutive Rick.

I expect people I don't know to call me Fred, and that is of course OK, it's a fine name. It's just not "my" name.

My wife is also my Admin. assistant. She knows not to transfer calls to me if they ask for Fred, and they are claiming to know me.

It can actually be kinda fun.
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Been there, done that, on all counts! I don't want to derail the thread with this, but going by your middle name does make for a handy screening device.
 
My full name isn't on my id so academy wouldn't process my purchase either. Does anyone know if i bring my birth certificate, considering it has my full middle name, back with me that will be enough? I really don't want to deal with DPS and tag agency if i don't have to...
 
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