OK so now we Have barack Outed, any more Questions ...???

W

Wildalaska

Moderator
So does this take care of any further discussion on Barack Obamas ideas about guns?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9722.html

I'd post the whole thing but its long, perhap one of you more industrious fellas can paste the pertinent parts?

If Barack promised to give us all M16s, he would not be worth voting for. Now that he is been "outed" by the mainstream media as Barbara Boxer and Chuckie Schumers gun soulmate, can we finish even mentioning his name here?

WildadaywithoutbarackisadaywithoutpanderingAlaska TM
 
This actually touches on two points.

First, is the man worth mentioning? Heck, I had never heard of him until the national press even mentioned him. To me, that's how any topic is learned.

Second, when is a debate "over"? I have heard of the "9mm vs. .45 ACP" debated in my life for over forty years. I don't think it will ever be settled. Nor Ford vs. Chevy. Nor Harley vs. Honda.

That's not why I spend time in forums. If we only debated the tasteful or the plausible, this forum would be reduced to discussions on kittens and chocolate chip cookies. Most of the truly fun topics have many facets to examine.

Personally, I dislike black powder firearms. A few years ago in a debate, I learned about a company that makes replacement metallic cartridge cylinders for Ruger Old Army revolvers. Suddenly, I was interested.

I don't think any topic should have parameters, only those defined by polite discourse and decorum. Of course I'm going to get mad or take offense from time to time. But that's not a valid reason to chill debate.
 
I have not understood why people posted so many anti-Obama threads here anyway. It is a bit like preaching to the choir. Not too many people visiting gun boards are even considering voting for him.
 
Unregistered said:
I have not understood why people posted so many anti-Obama threads here anyway.
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While the stated reasons may vary, the motivations are the same as all the pro/con Ron Paul threads: Ya either like him (or not) and want to let the world know.

At least the Obama/Clinton threads have not, as yet, gotten as obnoxious as the RP threads... Nor as numerous.
 
At least the Obama/Clinton threads have not, as yet, gotten as obnoxious as the RP threads... Nor as numerous.
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Let me postulate that the reason for that is that the resistance to Obama/Clinton on this site (and most gun sites) will be nigh universal. True there will be some who will vote for either, but I venture it will be a small percentage.

On the other hand Ron Paul's candidacy was akin to the Second Coming for some on this board while others thought he was a little loony. Probably close to evenly divided or at least 60/40 one way or the other. With that kind of division, there will be...........well.............division :D.
 
While I agree with the original post in truth I see very little need to discuss
or become angry about any of the 3 candidates as none seem in my opinion
to be of value to our country.
 
Comparing Obama threads to Ron Paul threads is not a good comparison.

About 50% of the people who frequent this forum would respond favorably to Ron Paul in polls taken while he was running.

I bet less than 5% of people here would respond favorably to Obama.

My point is that posting anti-Obama threads here is simply preaching to the choir, and accomplishes little. It would be better to post anti Obama threads on moderate or liberal web sites.
 
I'm grateful the anti-Obama threads are here -- it gives me a quick & easy reference when I'm talking to friends and family about politics. When my gun-owning dad says, "Well, except for his stand on guns, Obama's okay ..." -- I can point him here. When my liberal sister says Obama is going to "unify" the country, I have at my fingertips a whole bunch of beautiful columns and rants saying otherwise.

Don't other people use these things for reference?

pax
 
If Barack promised to give us all M16s, he would not be worth voting for. Now that he is been "outed" by the mainstream media as Barbara Boxer and Chuckie Schumers gun soulmate, can we finish even mentioning his name here?
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Even on this forum, there are people who are as yet undecided or even leaning toward Obama or Hillary. Perhaps that's a tiny minority, but even if I disagree with their choice for president, I'm not inclined to shut them out of the discussion.

If we "finish even mentioning his name here," we shut down discussion of at least four groups: those who are against Obama, those who favor Obama, those who are undecided, and those who are against Obama but would like some cogent arguments for when they discuss the subject elsewhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I often see good info and good arguments raised here that I use in discussions outside this forum. Case in point: the article linked to the original post.

If some members of the first group don't want to discuss Obama, they can simply choose to participate in other threads. Why shut down free speech for the last three groups simply because some members of the first group say so?

NOTE ADDED: +1 Pax!
 
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I have not understood why people posted so many anti-Obama threads here anyway. It is a bit like preaching to the choir. Not too many people visiting gun boards are even considering voting for him.
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It seems to me that some of the people on gun boards are considering voting for Obama. And these same people try to make subtle arguments that it would be OK for others to do the same. I think their basic premise is that guns are not the only issue, so what Obama might accomplished outweighs his anti-gun stance. Anyway, there sure have been some long threads with very wordy posts that seem to try and counter any anti-Obama feelings. Again, this is subtle, but I think is none the less real. I think having discussions about candidates that have a good chance to be President is a worthy endeavor.

I admit I am sensitive about issues that could effect my gun rights, so I would rather err on the side of over talking how the candidates stand on gun issues rather than under talking about the issues. I haven't seen many posts that were too abusive, and most about Obama have stuck to using his own words about gun control and not just conjecture.

+1 Pax & P38!

Added: It seems to me that shutting down discussion of Obama's gun stance favors his supporters. They know his real stance on guns, so they would really not like to have his true feelings outed on a daily basis. I think they feel if the discussion stops then some will just forget his gun stance and go on to other issues. BTW, if that happens, I am also against Obama for his left wing politics...but that's another story.
 
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I was openly surprised and shocked even, the learn yesterday that my father and mother both were considering voting for Obama! I never would have thought in a million years that it would even enter their minds, especially my dad, who is so pro-gun, pro-rights, bible belt, conservative, that he makes Ron Paul look like Jane Fonda!

What power over peoples minds does this young, charismatic, silver-tongued devil have!? People are willing to vote for him, and they don't even know why!
I pointed them both here, for some Obama fact checking. By all means, don't stop the flow of real, factual info on what Obama truely is! We need to be able to counter his mind control somehow. I wrapped the parents house in tinfoil, but it doesn't seem to be working.....:p
 
Don't other people use these things for reference?
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Well now you have it. One yummy reference courtesy of Politico.com All the cogent arguments that anyone needs on his gun position...which in any event are a mere meaningless adjunct to his overall unfitness.

Yep...meaningless (I like that word today)...sort of like the DA laying a Petit Larceny Charge on a guy indicted for 14 counts of Murder 2...like...why bother:)

The point is not "shutting down" threads, those words entail the iron fist of authority crushing dissent (how Freudian)...I'm not even trying to stifle dissent, I have no power and who listens to me anyway...even I don't listen to me..

Rather it's like the endless "show us your Glock threads"...

Meaningless.......:D

Now maybe there is something more....Ron Paul got his fake popularity off the net (RONPAULHASMOREHITSORSEARCHESONTHENETTHANANYONESOHEISTHESECONDCOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) when in point of fact you would go on the Plumbing Board or the Thai Cooking Board and see folks screaming ONLY RON PAUL CAN STOP A TOILET DRIPPING or ONLY RON PAUL USES CORRECT NAM PLA, giving his supporters a chance to rant how many times his name is mentioned...

Could this be the same with Barack? Are we giving him bandwidth he doesnt deserve....?

Wait I'M THE ONE who started this thread:eek:

WildforgetitcarryonAlaska TM
 
These Anti-Obama threads are VERY NECESSARY. There are still many gun owners who don't know about Obama and his gun-grabbing positions. You would think that anyone reading a gun site would know about the candidates. Unfortunately, this is not always the case.

OBAMA WANTS YOUR GUNS MELTED DOWN.
 
Rather it's like the endless "show us your Glock threads"...

Meaningless.......:D
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I don't see it as at all similar to such Glock threads. There isn't much that will change about the aforementioned Glocks, and so I don't view such threads. Even so, on a gun board, and in the appropriate forum of a gun board, that's at least one of the purposes of that particular forum: for Glock enthusiasts to share with other Glock enthusiasts. For that particular forum and its members, such threads are not entirely meaningless.

As for this forum, you could argue that pro-gun rights threads and anti-gun-ban threads are also meaningless. This is a gun board, after all, so such threads are preaching to the choir. But the value lies in harnessing the resources of the members to provide supporting info, or to view from different perspectives and thus broaden our own perspectives. That's hardly meaningless.

Also, I often test my ideas and arguments here before taking them to discussions outside the board. This forum is a kind of bessemer furnance where ideas are purified from raw material into useful steel. Once an idea or an argument is tested here, and the flaws and gaps wrung from it, it's ready for use elsewhere. That's a process I've used successfully for my ideas and arguments and those of others that I have borrowed. And that, too, is hardly meaningless.
 
There are still many gun owners who don't know about Obama and his gun-grabbing positions.
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Not here I reckon....all you have to do is do....*gulp*...a search :)

For that particular forum and its members, such threads are not entirely meaningless.
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That sounds so existential....and I see your point...but isnt meaninless a term of art in this context...after all, it is not the Glock qua Glock that is meaningless, but rather, the endless repetition of thisismyGlockitisplasticandgodlikeworshipye over and over again...

This is Barack, he hatesyourguns, this is Barack, he hates your guns, this is Barack, he hates your guuuuuuuunnnnnsss....

Like his position on guns means anything in comparison to his utter worthlessness in every other area....

You think anybody off this Board is going to be turned away from Barack based on the endless Barack hates your guns threads?

It's a question of focus...focus on how you could make Mccain better...focus on your local elections...I have seen nothing on this Board about whats up in places that count like Florida or Ohio with respect to progun/antigun election promises/pandering...why do we (me included) keep babbling on about a two bit gungrabber who charms the pants off the ignorant...

Just my 2 shekels

WildevenhillaryismoreinterestingAlaska TM
 
Again +1 P38


So does this take care of any further discussion on Barack Obamas ideas about guns?
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No. why would you ask? I admit I am having a hard time connecting the logic dots. Your link is good in showing Obama stance against gun rights, but then you are saying OK, he is against guns but lets stop the useless threads discussing his stance. What about new members that are not fully aware of his stance? What about any new issues about his stance as the race goes on? This is a gun forum, why would you suggest that we not discuss the political impact of an anti-gun candidate?

And the only thing meaningless is the comparison to Glock threads. Glock owners don't threaten my gun rights...heck I even plan to purchase one soon myself.

Wild, since I am on a why asking rant. Why stop by at about every thread about Obama and admonish everyone for being an alarmist (my description) about gun rights? And why infer that our gun rights are really safe and that they have not diminished through the years?

How's that for a bunch of why's?

Well now you have it. One yummy reference courtesy of Politico.com All the cogent arguments that anyone needs on his gun position...which in any event are a mere meaningless adjunct to his overall unfitness.
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No I don't have it. My answer to someone that questions Obama's gun stance is not just going to be visit Politico.com...not that that's a bad idea. And no they do not have all of Obama's cogent agruments...at least IMO. So, if you don't mind, I will continue to discuss his gun stance here!
 
That sounds so existential....and I see your point...but isnt meaninless a term of art in this context...after all, it is not the Glock qua Glock that is meaningless, but rather, the endless repetition of thisismyGlockitisplasticandgodlikeworshipye over and over again...

This is Barack, he hatesyourguns, this is Barack, he hates your guns, this is Barack, he hates your guuuuuuuunnnnnsss....

Like his position on guns means anything in comparison to his utter worthlessness in every other area....

You think anybody off this Board is going to be turned away from Barack based on the endless Barack hates your guns threads?
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I feel your pain. :D

I find no value in the "Obama, The Gun-Grabber" threads because I find the statement self-evident. Of course, as madmag pointed out, we have new people visiting all the time, so there may be value for them.

For me, I find value in, as you put it, a different focus: the Obama-related threads that point out his other flaws. I use that info to "add arrows to my quiver" in my discussions outside this board. For that reason, I do not favor that we "finish even mentioning his name here."
 
And the only thing meaningless is the comparison to Glock threads.
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Thats cuz you dont understand the analogy :)

What about new members that are not fully aware of his stance?
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Do a search :)

What about any new issues about his stance as the race goes on?
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Would it make a difference? :p

This is a gun forum, why would you suggest that we not discuss the political impact of an anti-gun candidate?
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I've made a suggestion that we focus on energies on areas far more important rather than the continual Barackisagungrabber threads..

Hey its called...beatin' a dead horse?

So Madmag, start a USEFUL thread about....South Carolina..know anybody that lives there....whats happening there is IMPORTANT in the scheme of things

Wildbarackisundermybedgrabbinmyguns...heyhappy420Alaska TM

PS

For me, I find value in, as you put it, a different focus: the Obama-related threads that point out his other flaws.
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Thats a good point...his other flaws...hey did you know his middle name is HUSSIEN???? :)
 
Wildalaska said:
the endless repetition
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Granted, this is a common pursuit in a hobbyist forum. Heck, it's common in general.

For example, last year I bought a DVD to improve some aspects of one of my hobbies. It was produced by a guy who "had been there."

In his preface he stated that he, too, had needed direction. When his teacher asked him about his experience, he responded that he had been in the sport for twenty years. The teacher corrected him that he had only one year's experience--he simply did it twenty times over. And *lightbulb* so had I.

There are certainly problems with Obama, Glocks, mechanized knife sharpeners, "green" cars, and outcome based education.

The issue I find is not the discussion of known facts, but how we apply what we know into discourse that actually helps others and our own knowledge.

In fact, we do this even with guys we like. I'm not sure many people here know a "tinker's damn" (and that's alright for me to say, I'm a tinker) about McCain other than he's old and a former POW. We simply assume his stance on firearms has got to be better than Hillbama's.

I boldfaced that word for a reason. At the day's end, I'm not sure McCain's actual stance on guns is any better.
 
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