Ok so I was all wet about the CZ's.-Excellent value! Comfortable too!
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
Well, Richard, thanks for thinking of me.
It was very lucky for you that you bought a Mark III so cheaply. However, if you can find me a $340 like new Browning High Power Mark III, I will apologize profusely for my misguided thoughts. Can you find me one? I think not.
The reality is that comparing NIB vs. NIB pistols, CZ offers more value for the buck.
Surely both pistols can be customized to be "the ultimate" pistols, but we are comparing the least expensive NIB models here.
BTW, one can easily purchase a NIB CZ-75B for $315 including one high capacity magazine. The least expensive NIB BHP Mark III I've seen is $550 with only post-ban mags. And, not only that, the gun is still unusable because of its 10-12lbs. trigger pull and rather tacky grips. I now have to get a trigger job (okay $35, plus $25-50 for shipping both ways) plus Spegel grips ($55 plus S&H). Even w/o the grips, the gun is $635 plus $50 or so for one pre-ban mag ($685).
Are you telling me that the BHP now is more than twice the gun that a CZ-75B (twice the accuracy, twice the capacity, twice the reliability, etc. etc.)? Except for a die-hard BHP fan like you, most would agree that it is not.
BTW, as you know, I have a Mark II (1987 vintage). I am not impressed. Still, I may spend about $500 to dress it up (trigger job, Spegel grips, new sights, new safety, commander hammer, C&S wide trigger, new finish, etc. etc.) when my wife is done with school. I am thinking of sending it to either Kurt Wickmann or Brian Bilby. Then, it might look and function as well as my NIB CZ-75B!
: )
Skorzeny
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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
It was very lucky for you that you bought a Mark III so cheaply. However, if you can find me a $340 like new Browning High Power Mark III, I will apologize profusely for my misguided thoughts. Can you find me one? I think not.
The reality is that comparing NIB vs. NIB pistols, CZ offers more value for the buck.
Surely both pistols can be customized to be "the ultimate" pistols, but we are comparing the least expensive NIB models here.
BTW, one can easily purchase a NIB CZ-75B for $315 including one high capacity magazine. The least expensive NIB BHP Mark III I've seen is $550 with only post-ban mags. And, not only that, the gun is still unusable because of its 10-12lbs. trigger pull and rather tacky grips. I now have to get a trigger job (okay $35, plus $25-50 for shipping both ways) plus Spegel grips ($55 plus S&H). Even w/o the grips, the gun is $635 plus $50 or so for one pre-ban mag ($685).
Are you telling me that the BHP now is more than twice the gun that a CZ-75B (twice the accuracy, twice the capacity, twice the reliability, etc. etc.)? Except for a die-hard BHP fan like you, most would agree that it is not.
BTW, as you know, I have a Mark II (1987 vintage). I am not impressed. Still, I may spend about $500 to dress it up (trigger job, Spegel grips, new sights, new safety, commander hammer, C&S wide trigger, new finish, etc. etc.) when my wife is done with school. I am thinking of sending it to either Kurt Wickmann or Brian Bilby. Then, it might look and function as well as my NIB CZ-75B!
: )
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
Guess I got lucky. In May, I bought a LNIB MKIII for 420 with one hi-cap mag and three additional factory hi-caps for 33 a piece. On the other hand, I splurged on the CZ and bought the 85 Combat model for $500 with one 15-round and one 10-round mag. As far as shootability goes, I haven't tested them side-by-side. I'll do that this weekend and post my results.
railroader
New member
Iv'e never seen one personally but J&G Sales has single action only cz75's for $369. Might be a very good comparison to a highpower.
Skorz, you know me and I have said it many times there is no pistol I shoot better and faster than a High Power. I do not pay that sort of shipping as I can take a two hour drive pick up the pistol and then take my wife to lunch. She is happy and I am happy. If it makes you feel any better I am about a 1 1/2 hours from Brian Bilby. Maybe I will go for a vist one day. Regards, Richard.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by makarov:
What is the difference between the "military" version and the regular CZ-75B? Also as far as long term use does the polymer hold up? It is easy to get a gun reblued, but if the polymer wears it might be hard to fix. [/quote]
The CZ rep told me the polymer coated was the military version. That would make the blued version the regualar I guess. I'm not real sure he was correct though. I wanted to get, and almost did get a CZ75BD because of the decocker feature. I also told him I wanted to get a .22 conversion unit for it. He assured me the conversion unit worked on all of the CZ75 line. I didn't question it, but someone else wanted to shoot a decocker version w/the .22 conversion. Seems it didn't fit.
On the mushy trigger: I kind of like it in a weird sort of way. For some reason it reminds me of the DA trigger of my Smith model 19. Go figure. For the time being, I don't see the lack of a decocker as being a problem. I don't plan on any DZ use of this particular gun. I do agree though, lowering the hammer manually on a chambered round seems kind of ,,umm, uncomfortable. Course, I've had to do it before with a SA revolver, so I guess pretty much the same rules apply. As far as side by side to a HP, I'm going to start another thread for that.
What is the difference between the "military" version and the regular CZ-75B? Also as far as long term use does the polymer hold up? It is easy to get a gun reblued, but if the polymer wears it might be hard to fix. [/quote]
The CZ rep told me the polymer coated was the military version. That would make the blued version the regualar I guess. I'm not real sure he was correct though. I wanted to get, and almost did get a CZ75BD because of the decocker feature. I also told him I wanted to get a .22 conversion unit for it. He assured me the conversion unit worked on all of the CZ75 line. I didn't question it, but someone else wanted to shoot a decocker version w/the .22 conversion. Seems it didn't fit.
On the mushy trigger: I kind of like it in a weird sort of way. For some reason it reminds me of the DA trigger of my Smith model 19. Go figure. For the time being, I don't see the lack of a decocker as being a problem. I don't plan on any DZ use of this particular gun. I do agree though, lowering the hammer manually on a chambered round seems kind of ,,umm, uncomfortable. Course, I've had to do it before with a SA revolver, so I guess pretty much the same rules apply. As far as side by side to a HP, I'm going to start another thread for that.
Richard-
I picked up a CZ75 and promptly sold my HP, for the following reasons-
Capacity is greater.
My hands are not huge, but I have no problem whatsoever with the DA trigger pull, and I had a 'smith smooth it up and lighten it a bit. Personally, I HATE the SIG triggers, I think my CZ and Makarov have much nicer triggers than the SIG. Of course this is a personal preference. My HP had a creepy, 10lb.+ trigger with lash and a nasty habit of pins walking out of the frame.
The night sights on my CZ are superior than the HP, and IMO equal to the other guns you mentioned. They all are high-visibility, and provide at least an adequate sight picture. The CZ sights are at least metal, which is more than you can say about the stock Glock.
The "spray on" finish on the CZ is FAR superior in durability and corrosion resistence than any bluing or stainless, period. The new spray on moly based finishes (like k-coat on the SIG) are really high-tech and are IMO the best finishes one can have on a combat weapon.
As for "potential danger of an accidental discharge while lowering the hammer", this sounds a little silly coming from a single-action only guy
Grips? Whats wrong with plastic grips? Anyway, they give you an option from the factory, plastic, rubber or wood. I'm going with a set of the cocobolo Hogues that Ledbetter mentioned.
Overall, lets see, I paid $350 for the pistol with 2 hi-cap factory mags and factory night sights. I spent $60 on a triggerjob. I'll spend $20 on new grips (not because I have a problem with plastic grips, I just want to try some wood ones). $430, total, and I've got a pistol that is at least the equal (and IMHO superior) of any you've mentioned, especially the Ruger P85 MKII and Walther P88 (talk about nasty triggers).
Regards-
BB
[This message has been edited by BB (edited July 25, 2000).]
I picked up a CZ75 and promptly sold my HP, for the following reasons-
Capacity is greater.
My hands are not huge, but I have no problem whatsoever with the DA trigger pull, and I had a 'smith smooth it up and lighten it a bit. Personally, I HATE the SIG triggers, I think my CZ and Makarov have much nicer triggers than the SIG. Of course this is a personal preference. My HP had a creepy, 10lb.+ trigger with lash and a nasty habit of pins walking out of the frame.
The night sights on my CZ are superior than the HP, and IMO equal to the other guns you mentioned. They all are high-visibility, and provide at least an adequate sight picture. The CZ sights are at least metal, which is more than you can say about the stock Glock.
The "spray on" finish on the CZ is FAR superior in durability and corrosion resistence than any bluing or stainless, period. The new spray on moly based finishes (like k-coat on the SIG) are really high-tech and are IMO the best finishes one can have on a combat weapon.
As for "potential danger of an accidental discharge while lowering the hammer", this sounds a little silly coming from a single-action only guy
Grips? Whats wrong with plastic grips? Anyway, they give you an option from the factory, plastic, rubber or wood. I'm going with a set of the cocobolo Hogues that Ledbetter mentioned.
Overall, lets see, I paid $350 for the pistol with 2 hi-cap factory mags and factory night sights. I spent $60 on a triggerjob. I'll spend $20 on new grips (not because I have a problem with plastic grips, I just want to try some wood ones). $430, total, and I've got a pistol that is at least the equal (and IMHO superior) of any you've mentioned, especially the Ruger P85 MKII and Walther P88 (talk about nasty triggers).
Regards-
BB
[This message has been edited by BB (edited July 25, 2000).]
Icopy:
Your $500 CZ-85 Combat, unlike CZ-75B or BHP, is hand-fitted.
It should yield good shooting results. Let us know!
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
Your $500 CZ-85 Combat, unlike CZ-75B or BHP, is hand-fitted.
It should yield good shooting results. Let us know!
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
I have had my fun and it is time to come clean. My main objection to the CZ75 is shared by most 9mms that are used for military and police use. This breed of pistol is too large and too heavy for the caliber. I continue to think the Glock 19 is the most size efficient 9mm there is.
I do not have a problem with the double action on the CZ75 as I tend to pull it straight through. I have seen better sights and grips but I can live with the ones it comes with. If I ever become interested in mine I will have the grips, sights, and a trigger job done.
Regards,
Richard
I do not have a problem with the double action on the CZ75 as I tend to pull it straight through. I have seen better sights and grips but I can live with the ones it comes with. If I ever become interested in mine I will have the grips, sights, and a trigger job done.
Regards,
Richard
Richard,
Aie Carumba (sp). My bad! Excuse my gaffe please. I just reread my initial post. What I meant to say is the single action letoff on the CZ reminds me, in a weird sort of way of the double action of my Smith 19. Both of them come to a point where they *stage* just before letoff. It's hard to desrcibe exactly, but I noticed the likeness right away.
Aie Carumba (sp).
My bad! Excuse my gaffe please. I just reread my initial post. What I meant to say is the single action letoff on the CZ reminds me, in a weird sort of way of the double action of my Smith 19. Both of them come to a point where they *stage* just before letoff. It's hard to desrcibe exactly, but I noticed the likeness right away.I`m not gonna get into the HiPower vs. CZ thing 
but I really have the hots for a CZ. I e mailed CZ-USA about the CZ-75SA,single action only. Basically it`s a CZ-75B with the trigger and other single action parts from their IPSC gun plus a new larger safety. Price looks to be the same or only slightly more than the 75B. They`re supposed to start delivery this month or next. I just put a 75SA in .40*&* with the poly finish and walnut grips on order from my local gunshop today. 
Marcus
but I really have the hots for a CZ. I e mailed CZ-USA about the CZ-75SA,single action only. Basically it`s a CZ-75B with the trigger and other single action parts from their IPSC gun plus a new larger safety. Price looks to be the same or only slightly more than the 75B. They`re supposed to start delivery this month or next. I just put a 75SA in .40*&* with the poly finish and walnut grips on order from my local gunshop today. MarcusI also attended the CZ Day demo and was impressed. I think it was the same one that RAE went to (Riverfront). I shot the 75 military, 75 PCR compact and 85 (race ready).
I wish I would have had this opportunity back in March, before I bought a HP Mark III.
I liked the feel of the 75 PCR compact the best, but couldn't bring myself to buy one, since I have purchased 2 guns this year.
Maybe next year.
I wish I would have had this opportunity back in March, before I bought a HP Mark III.
I liked the feel of the 75 PCR compact the best, but couldn't bring myself to buy one, since I have purchased 2 guns this year.
Maybe next year.
Good choice, I have a CZ-75 military polomer in .40?&!. Two X 12 round factory and 2x 10 s/steel post ban magazines.
It will be kept 'as is' for a Services match....but the cocobolo grips sound tempting, I just might!!
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If we shooting sportspersons don't hang together... we will all hang separately !
Never knock another's different shooting interest or discipline...REMEMBER we are all but leaves on the same tree of freedom.
It will be kept 'as is' for a Services match....but the cocobolo grips sound tempting, I just might!!
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If we shooting sportspersons don't hang together... we will all hang separately !
Never knock another's different shooting interest or discipline...REMEMBER we are all but leaves on the same tree of freedom.