Ok, here's my first question for all of you...

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Lori...
No problem and I seriously doubt anyone was offended. Yours are the natural questions coming from someone unfamiliar with firearms and who is bombarded with negative propaganda.

We are happy to answer your questions

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Lori Ann, I don't mean to be blunt but I am 50 years old. When I was a child we had cap pistols and we had daddy's pistols. I knew the difference between the two as we played cowboys and Indians which is no longer PC.
That is what we played at, I have great respect for the American Indian and great sorrow in my heart for what has been done but that is for another thread. I got to shoot my first time when I was seven, could handle the family firearms at age 5 with permission and under close supervision. Even at that young age I was amazed with the mechanics and beauty of firearms in general. I do hunt although my Father was not my teacher in that area, he had to hunt to help feed himself and family during the late 20's and got burned out on it, but he taught me the joy and respect of firearms. At age 10 my dad presented me with and Eastern Arms Proof Tested 12 ga shotgun. I was the happiest kid in the world but at 70 lbs. that gun taught me all about gun control! BTW I still have it!
Kids need teaching at birth about a lot of things. Personal responsability is first and foremost, unfortunately some parents have never learned this concept.
I digress too far, best of luck to you and your,
Hank
 
LoriAnn,

You're doing fine.
Generally it's difficult to offend us. The quality of people on this board is high, and most have a rather thick skin.

Personal attacks based on emotionalism are pointless and simply not tolerated. On occasion things will get heated, but generally it is quickly resolved.

I have three boys, 6, 4, and 2. I started teaching them about gun safety when the oldest was 4. And took him out to shoot for the first time when he turned 5.

He has developed a sense of respect for the power that a gun has, and he will continue to do so while he lives under my roof.

The 4 rules of shooting can not be stressed enough.

1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
2. NEVER point a gun at something you are not willing to destroy.
3. NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to shoot.
4. Be aware of what is BEHIND your target.

(This is how they were taught to me.)

And I believe very strongly that education can prevent the majority of abuses.

Any time my boys want to see my guns, I'll drop what I'm doing and break them out. We review the 4 rules of gun-handling, and then they can ask all the questions that they want, as well as handle them themselves under my supervision. It takes the mystery out of it, and by so doing reduces the risk of unauthorized use.

BTW (by the way) Welcome to the board, it's a pleasure having you here!

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
It takes a lot to offend some of us crusty old birds. If some answers seem short it is usually because we actually expect those types of questions to come from people who don't hunt or shoot and it's proof to us that the anti-gun crowd has done their job all too well. It's the "guns = kill" scenario that is soooo overdone.

Most of us fire many thousands of rounds at targets for every one we fire at game. To say there is no thrill to the hunt and taking of a game animal would be a lie. Show me a hunter who never had "buck fever"! But nearly every hunter I know has experienced that twinge of remorse after making that good shot. I have found that most hunters have far more respect for the game thay take than any "tree-hugger" does.

Keep the questions coming and if one of us old dogs growls when you try to pet him, just take a deep breath and try again. If he bites you, remember, it takes 42 muscles to frown but it only takes 4 to extend your arm and slap the crap out of him!

Mikey
 
Welcome to the groupe, LoriAnn. Nioce to have you here. Ask your questions and we'll try to answer them in a manner that makes sense.

I was not offended with your hunting question. I have never felt any thrill from killing any animal. There was the thrill of the hunt but none from the kill. If that makes sense to you.

I don't remember how young I was when my parents started teaching me about firearms safety. I had to have been quite young, I had my first b-b gun at 6 or 7, my first .22 rifle at 11 or 12. We lived in the country so I could go where I wanted with the b-b gun, even after I got the .22. I used the b-b gun more because Dad used to get me b-b's in 5 pound boxes and .22's cost a lot more.



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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
LoriAnn,

The reason I started shooting was to hunt. My dad, brothers and I all fished, hunted and trapped to put food on the table. That is what got me started. Today I do not hunt and therefore have no hunting type guns. They are all defensive type firearms.

Best Regards....
"Train as You Live and Live as You Train"
 
Lori,

I was not introduced to shooting until later in life - around age 22, as I recall, by a roomate who had recently returned from the war in Viet Nam. Until last year I owned 2 firearms. Since then I have purchased more. At some point we can discuss another common question - why do people own more than one gun? Another day.

I have 2 boys, ages 8 and 15. I give my 8-year-old a quarter now and then, in exchange for a quick recitation of the 4 firearms safety rules - he clearly takes pride in displaying this knowledge (he has been able to do this from age 6). My entire family goes to the range with me from time to time. Neither boy seems terribly interested in guns right now, but they do have a good knowledge of various kinds. They respect them as tools, and recognize the power they have for severe damage and destruction.

My wife and I feel much safer and more secure that each boy has some knowledge about firearms. When they encounter them away from our supervision (as they inevitably will), they have already gained the knowledge required to make wise decisions in those circumstances.

Note that at least one of these terrible school shootings was terminated by a young boy who understood firearms, and rushed the murderer when he stopped to reload. Consider this - in what other area of human endeavor do we value ignorance? Knowledge is power, and can certainly help save a child in a situation involving firearms.

I have hunted very little, and never 'big' game. I don't enjoy killing, and I hate waste - whenever I have hunted I have eaten the food and / or done so to prevent damage to my property. My main purpose for owning firearms is self defense. Other reasons would be hunting and target shooting (including various forms of competition and 'plinking'). A more esoteric reason for firearms ownership relates to keeping governments 'honest' - consider a book called 'That Every Man be Armed' by Stephen Halbrook for a good perspective on such history and philosophy.

One other point - you will find that the media in the U.S. usually gives an incredibly distorted and ignorant view of firearms ownership. But, you'll be able to judge that for yourself.

Take care. Regards from AZ
 
Only killed one thing in my entire life, a mocking bird outside my window that would not shut up-- even felt kinda guilty about doing that. I am sort of an animal rights person at heart, they are cute, cudly, warm, friendly, and tasty! :) Seriously, I do not advocate trophy hunting, that to me is sick. (flame me if ya want) However, it is really hard to find venison at Kroger, but since my relatives hunt regularly, I just mooch off them. I guess I'll go out and get my own one day, but I do not have the time or money to get out of the city.

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"peace, love, joy, and happiness..."
 
Lori, I think I was the one who sounded offended. Don't worry about it. You didn't offend me and if you do, I'll deal with it by pouting. I just had to be kinda short because I had a lot to say and the girlfriend had somewhere to go RIGHT NOW!
:)

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Welcome LoriAnn, its a pleasure to me you.
I started shooting at about 10. I'm sort of a countryfied city kid. I grew up in the suburbs, but spent a great deal of time at both grandparents farms. Shooting was just a common part of life. Food for supper, pest control and sometimes just for sport.
Both my sons started shooting at about 9 or 10.
What gets kids into trouble with guns is simple curiousity. The worst mistake a parent can make is to try to hide their guns from the kids. The kids will find them! With my sons, as soon as they were old enough to understand what a gun is, I got every gun I own out, made sure they were unloaded and let the boys pick them up, handle them, ask questions and basicly get the curiousity out of their systems. I never had a problem with the boys messing with my guns. In fact to this day, I can take a gun out of the cabinet, check the action and hand it to one of my boys and the first thing he will do is open the action and check it for himself. Education is the key to saftey. Satisfy your kids curiousity at an early age before they get into trouble.
 
Welcome. I have 4 boys, ages 12 to 19 and all shoot. Two do Traps, (those clay disc thrown in the air) one is into rifles and the 12yr old found out he can shoot my G35 at 5yds and hit a pop bottle. All like to plink with a .22 rifle.Not one of them has killed a living thing. My oldest wants to go deer hunting but we haven't had the time.
When the kids were young, I took them out the the range,took some things that would impress them when there objects were shot.After the demonstration I asked them what a bullet would do to person. They agreed that it would kill or hurt someone.I shoot IPSC and my oldest wants to start.My wife also shoots pistol,rifle,shotgun.
I started shooting at 6 or 7,roamed the hill of eastren Okla. with a .410 shotgun pocket full of shells and two dogs at age 11.Have killed a lot of squirrles,rabbits,snakes quail,crows and snapping turtles. I did not get off on killing any thing but the snakes and crows.The main reason my parents taught me how to shoot was self defense. You see we had coyotes,cats(big and small) and people.People haven't changed LoriAnn, there is just more of them.Some want to take what you have and they don't have that right.
Stay safe.
John
 
Lori, I was raised around guns since my father was in the FBI. My first shooting experience I was 5, got my dad's .22 rifle when I was 6, passed it to my son when he was 8. I hunted for awhile, didn't really enjoy it that much. As a result I have not been for 20 years, but I do like to shoot. Targets, cans, jugs, trash, just about anything. I use to shoot bottles until it became a bad thing to do.
 
LoriAnn: First, welcome!

My mother gave me my first Daisy Red Ryder BB gun about 1941. It was a different world, then. BB guns for little kids, and .22 rifles for the ages 10-12 group were pretty much taken for granted. Hunting was not all that much of the deal for me and most of my friends.

We weren't really taught a lot about safety, other than "Be careful where you aim!", or "Don't point it at anybody." It was pretty much taken for granted that we had common sense. We had no difficulty telling the difference between cap pistols and real guns, either.

During WW II, we couldn't get caps, so we got pretty good at making mouth-music pistol noises. Played Jesse James and Texas Rangers games. Fell down dead, a lot. Then put up the cap pistols and grab a .22 and a few Short cartridges and head for the pasture. Different world, for sure.

Basically, if you take the mystique out of guns, kids aren't all goo-goo eyed about them. If you let them feel and fondle an empty pistol, with the promise they may shoot it when they are big enough, the lure of the unknown is removed. Create an attitude that it is not a toy--but it is a tool, and one whose misuse can be harmful.

In other words, cautious respect, but keep the "Big Deal" out of the equation.

Again, welcome!

:), Art
 
I just started getting interested in guns a few months ago. My interest could have/should have started a little earlier than that. Last January, a mentally ill woman walked into the office building I was working at and started to randomly shoot the place up. She never got up to my floor, but she killed someone on the floor below. I know what a fish in a barrel feels like. I won't go through that again. It isn't any fun to stand around waiting to see if you will be the next target and unable to do anything about it. Even after going through that, I never thought about owning my own gun.

Last March, I was at a homeschooling event featuring Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler. He dresses in authentic period costume and teaches history to young people. He also brings various guns to show to the kids. He spent some time describing the way a flintlock works. Then he turned his attention to the parents and addressed the issue of gun ownership. I remember him asking the question, "If a man broke into your home and attacked your wife, what would you do?" That got me thinking! When I shared this with my wife, she decided that she wanted us to get a gun.

Before we committed to buying a gun, my wife wanted to learn as much as she could about them. She took a hunter safety course. She also brought along our 7 and 9 year old daughters to sit in on the classes. My wife borrowed several videos on guns both from the library and from the hunter safety course. Together as a family we watched several hours of videos on gun safety, including Eddie Eagle. After my wife took her shooting test, the instructor let her borrow his .22 to let my daughters shoot. They enjoyed it and hope to shoot again soon. They wanted to shoot mainly because they saw mom doing it and wanted to give it a try. They love doing anything that seems grownup. They shot rather well, which thrilled them.

The instructor also offered to teach my wife and myself the concealed carry course that is required to obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm in my state. He let us borrow a .38 snubby revolver and a 9mm semi auto, just to get a feel for them. I shot three rounds from each one before returning the guns.

After getting our concealed carry permits, we decided on two guns. My wife wanted a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. I wanted a 9mm semi auto for concealed carry. We bought them both on the same day last September.

When I brought the guns home, I showed my kids what the 9mm looked like. My oldest daughters, the 7 and 9 year old, were shown in detail how the gun works. They even watched as I cycled live ammunition through the gun. Since this was all done on my back porch, I wasn't able to shoot. I handed them the unloaded gun and let them work the trigger, magazine release, etc.

My gun usually goes with me when I leave the house. When I am at home, it is often kept within reach. It might be on my desk, on a side table in the dining room, on my nightstand or in its holster on my hip. It is kept loaded at all times. It is for personal defense, so locking it up doesn't make sense. When visitors with kids come over, the gun is either put up on a high shelf, or it is unloaded and locked. My 3 year old son will not touch it, even if I let him. My 4 year old daughter has never tried to touch it. My 7 and 9 year old daughters will not touch it unless I unload it and hand it to them. When I hand them the gun, I always ask, "Is the gun loaded?" they always answer, "Yes."

When my 3 year old started pointing at things and yelling, "Brrrrrrrr!" (his word for "bang"), we started to teach him about muzzle control. He is never to point his "gun" at any person. When he started to put an old squirt gun in his pants and cover it with his shirt, "just like Daddy," we decided to get him a toy gun that looked more realistic. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find a toy gun that isn't a sci-fi ray gun style destroyer of the galaxy gun? I finally found a plastic replica of a .45 semi-auto. When you pull the trigger, it cocks and releases the hammer. He loves it, even though he got his britches dusted for aiming it at his sister. And, yes, he carries it in his waistband with his shirt pulled over it, "just like Daddy."

To put all this in a nutshell, begin teaching kids about guns before they are old enough to pull the trigger on your own gun, should they run across it unsupervised. They need to understand how dangerous guns can be, without being afraid of them.

So why does Daddy carry a gun? Well, it is like wearing seatbelts. You see, every time we get into the car, we put on our seatbelts. Why? Because every time we drive somewhere, we get into an accident. No, not really. I've never been in an accident. But if we ever did, we would certainly want to be wearing our seatbelts, and you never know when it might happen. It is the same way with the gun. I will probably never have to use it to defend myself, but if I ever did have to, I'd certainly want it with me!
 
LoriAnn,

I began shooting when I was about ten years old. The shooting tradition skipped a generation as my father was not a shooter. My grandfather was a quite a shot though. I can still recall seeing all his trophies from bullseye matches in El Paso. I begged, pleaded etc. untill I recieved a Daisy 99 repeater at ten. My mother was not thrilled as her experiences with firearms was very negative. Her brothers have been in and out of institutions with violent rap sheets. It wasn't untill high school that I was allowed to have a real firarm to hunt. I guess being an honors student at a Catholic high school helps. I was inspired to take up the shooting sports by reading Hemingway.
I have a three year old daughter. My firearms are secured in a safe. Guns don't hold much facination for her. She has asked to see them and hold them a few times. After making it safe she first handled a 1911 at about two years of age. It was too big and heavy for her. As a result she is as facinated about them as she is about watching the grass grow. My wife (Very pro-gun, bless her!) and I have since day one instilled the notion that guns are tools and are not to be played with. She knows what will happen to her if she messes with my Craftsmen tools. She will not ever have a toy gun as this is counter to our philosophy of firarms being serious tools. She also knows guns will kill and the person/ animal shot will not "wake" up again.
I do not wish to communicate to you that I am attempting to brainwash my daughter into believing guns are bad and are to be feared. Far from it I have acquired several weapons already for her. She has seen and handled these as I have explained to her that these specific guns are hers when she grows up. Although she generally doesn't react one way or the other about firearms, she does enjoy these sessions. She particularly enjoys looking and touching the game scenes on her Browing .22 auto rifle as well as her Piotti SxS.
Whenever she matures enough to use them, she will recieve proper instruction and shoot under supervision. Of course she will be well aquainted with Eddie the Eagle.
I am looking foward to many years of family camping, hunting and tatical shooting. Hopefully Yale will still have a skeet team when she attends.

Espresso
 
Lori, I'm so offended

Just kidding =)

Welcome to TFL.

I started teaching my kids gun safety first. They had to rescite the rules of gun safety before they could touch an unloaded BB gun. Then they had to prove they could carry it safely unloaded while accompanying me in the yard. Finally they got to shoot. This whole process took about 3 months. It taught them to focus on safety and that gun's were serious.

I take them shooting 22 rifles and revolvers now and I still grill them on safety rules. If they forget they don't shoot or touch a gun till it's learned again.

You have to force feed this to your kids because if you don't they will learn it from TV where people get shot and no one dies.

I took my 2 boy's ages 8 and 10 shooting last week and for the first time I let them shoot my 45ACP. I assisted with the grip of course. My oldest was afraid but the youngest stepped up. He, in his mind, thought it was the same as any other gun. I filled a milk carton with water and loaded my Ruger with a hallow point. I got behind him, reached around him and put my hands over his, squeezed tight and pulled the trigger.
The carton exploded and water flew everywhere.
When he released the gun his eyes were wide like he was in shock. I asked if he wanted to shoot teh 45 again and he said NO!

I smiled and took him over to the carton. I explained to him that this is what gun's really do when they hit people. That's why you never want to shoot someone. Only to save your life or someone elses. He still had a look of amazement but the point hit home.

The 2 years I spent showing them safety, quizing them, starting with BB guns, then 22's culminated to that moment. He really understood what a gun is and what it can really do.

Children need to respect and fear gun's. Fear to the point where they know how to use them but not unless necessary.

The only way possible is to let them shoot first hand and see the damage they can do.
We still shoot target with 22's but now he know's what really happens when the junk on TV comes on.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16



[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited December 08, 1999).]
 
LoriAnn,

Our three children have all graduated from college, and we now have an "empty nest". However, for almost 30 years we had kids in the house -- and we also had firearms.

They coexisted without ANY problems because the children were taught EARLY to be VERY responsible about firearms, just as they were about automobiles in their teens, power lawnmowers somewhat earlier and, in fact, all potentially dangerous tools. In my opinion, training, safety and respect for complex and/or dangerous things is the key to "child proofing" your children. Conversely, if you mystify a weapon while failing to teach critical safety concepts, you create the prescription for disaster.

One final point: For many years during my childhood, my Dad was an FBI Special Agent, so I grew up around firearms. However, he insisted on the demystification of guns and on firm safety rules; one did not break these rules due to UNFAILING family discipline.

This approach works, and I hope it will help you.
 
LoriAnn,
Welcome!

I don't have any children of my own yet, but I'll share how my Dad taught us about gun safety. The reason Dad owns firearms is hunting, which is something our family enjoys with a passion. First off, it was always clear that real guns were NOT toys. We had dozens of play guns, but always knew the difference. It was also always clear that that garbage we saw on TV & movies was FAKE. The lines between reality, and make-believe were clear. He & Mom kept track of what we watched, read, and listened to. Nothing was really "Off Limits" but everything was open for discussion.

As for storing the guns, they stayed in my Dad's closet. The were/are Highly Prized possesions, and like Mom's jewelry, and few other dangerous tools (knives, chainsaws, axes, etc.) were absolutely OFF LIMITS. This was not open for debate, or discussion, and was never questioned or violated. It was based purely on respect for/fear of my Dad. As far as we boys were concerned, that was stronger than any safe they could have been in. At least one or two of them were always loaded, but it was none of our business which. Also when deer season rolled around, it reinforced the lesson to personally inspect each weapon we handled.

These next few lessons were a little harsh for some, but given the stakes, were necessary.
I got a BB gun when I was 8. We lived on an acre or so out in the middle of the woods, so I was allowed to roam and plink. The first time I came back in the house with my BB gun, Dad picked it up, pointed it at me, and asked if it was loaded. It wasn't, but that is the only time I've ever had any doubt about the condition of a weapon I've handled (I'm 27 now).
I started hunting with my Dad at 6. It was really more "tagging along" than hunting, but anyway. When I was 6 or 7 Dad killed a really old whitetail buck (old as in way past his prime). We watched the animal for about 20-30 minutes befor Dad shot him. I was really able to get a sense of how alive the animal was. And after Dad killed the animal We examined the bullet wound, and violence created by the gun, and relatively small act of pulling the trigger. The thing Dad stressed most was the finality of it. That no matter what, noone could bring the deer back. Not even my All-Powerful Dad could undo this thing. He also explained how nature works (too long to include here, even if I could articulate properly), and why he hunts. I truly believe that Dad was prepared to lose me as a hunter that day, and that if it was something I wanted to do, then I should know the whole truth of what it is to kill. It's always been solemn, but to deny that there is some thrill to it would be a lie (Buck Fever). The range of emotion tied to hunting is different for every hunter, different for every hunt.
 
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