Ok fella's, lets see where everyone stands on gun control

R

Redneck with a 40

New member
Here's where I stand :

1) I dont mind the instant background check system.
2) I fully support the concealed carry permit system and "right to carry laws".
3) I realize the way it should be is in Vermont, no permit to carry, however I realize that this will never happen on a national basis.
4) I believe that responsible citizens should be allowed to own fully automatic rifles, if they are willing to pay the $10,000-$20,000, and go through all the red tape with the BATF.

What I do NOT support
1) Any type of mandatory waiting period
2) Ballistic fingerprinting
3) One gun a month rules
3) magazine capacity limits
4) Any type of registration, licensing system
5) Any limits on gun show's

In a nutshell, that's where I stand.:D
 
4) I believe that responsible citizens should be allowed to own fully automatic rifles, if they are willing to pay the $10,000-$20,000, and go through all the red tape with the BATF.
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Who decides who is responsible?

Why should a tax collection agency (until recently), have any say so?

If I am not mistaken, an AR-15 could be converted for less than $1000, why should they cost $10k-20k?

To answer your question directly, I think that you are a little more totalitarian than I am.

4) Any type of registration, licensing system
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NFA weapons are registered.
 
I believe that a man or woman should be free to do what they wish ... and pay the consequences. I do not abide laws of prevention. I believe laws are to punish wrongdoing, not prevent wrongdoing. Crime prevention laws are the basis for the wars on drugs, terror and whatever else is coming our way. I believe that crime prevention is at the heart of the belief system of the make me safe and I'll surrender just a little bit of my civil liberties in return crowd.

I do not believe in gun control of any sort. I believe in law enforcement, not crime prevention. I also believe that our civil liberties are being assaulted with bad law these days.

There was a time in my life and of many here when the law itself was not questioned. In those days, laws were passed with an eye to the constitution, not popularity. Today, I question the laws we see enacted and find myself at risk, on a daily basis, for actions on my part that harm no one.

Go ahead make a list. Just remember, one day you may have to live with it.
 
It should be a federal offence NOT to own a gun. ;)

Seriously, there shouldn't be any gun control/regulation at all. If you're worried about murderous felons that would be able to buy guns...don't be...if I had it my way, any murderer would face a SWIFT death penalty.
 
I gotta agree with Bud on this one.

Let me do what I see fit with my property, and don't harass me about it unless I've broken the law.
 
I meant I was opposed to the registration and licensing of handguns. The rules for fully automatic weapons have been in place for decades, they are not likely to change, those weapons get registered, have been since the 30's.

Its also a federal offense to convert an AR-15 type weapon to fully automatic, the prison term is 10 years, the fine = $10,000. I would not even chance that. Its also illegal to manufacture or import weapons that are easily convertible to fully automatic. I've done my homework on this.:p
 
Everything needs compromise, EVERYTHING. From both sides. Here are some I think are OK:

I think instant background checks are AOK. Hell, I think they're fantastic even.

I don't mind a one or two day waiting period. Whatever, moan all you want, but one or two days to make someone feel good about crimes of passion isn't going to put a damper in anything you do, except for a modicum of cases based on rare scenarios. It also stands in those very few cases to actually be as much a deterrent as it might in the same sorts and amounts of cases that people say its a harm. You win some, you lose some.

I think if you want to CCW, you should have to pass training and have paperwork. On the other hand, I think that you should have national requirements, not state by state.

Gunshow/private sales should be treated to the same laws as commercial sales.

I think the 1986 registry thing should be abolished, at least on a test basis. On the other hand, who really does know what sort of affect this would have on crime. Maybe criminals suddenly would start popping up with FA weapons. If so, then it was a failed test. Not everything works out to the best.

No matter what, the $200 tax stamp is an idea long past its purpose.

Things like FOIDs, well, I dunno. I waffle a bit on this one.. I mean, I do support the idea of having to be somewhat clueful before you own a firearm, on the other hand I recognize the potential this has as a "registering owners" aspect.

Look, we all call them "tools" and then wax on about how we don't treat other tools like this, but I disagree. Cars have laws that govern who owns them, who has the ability to operate them, their safety and all that. Why don't we start railing against vehicle registration and driver lisence laws? Because sometimes, it just makes sense.
 
Because the right to operate a motor vehicle is not enumerated in the BOR.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is.
 
Everything needs compromise, EVERYTHING.
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With that mindset, may I offer a few more?

1. Perhaps letters to the editor should be limited to once a month. That should not affect too many folks, just the radicals.

2. If you feel strongly enough about voting, a small fee should be applied. A reasonable amount, "perhaps... $200?", to keep the rabble rousers from muddying the results.

3. Search warrants place an unreasonable amount of distress on the judiciary system. If you have done nothing wrong, why would anyone object to a search of their persons, papers and properties?
 
If someone could point me to a gun law that actually had an effect on crime, I might consider supporting such a law.

But, since there are no gun laws that have done anything, there are none that I can support.
 
Bud up there in post #3 pretty well sums up my feelings on the matter. I've also got a general opposition to "sensible" gun control on historical bases as well as general mistrust of such, as in they lead to all sorts of slippery slopes.

There is 1 great fallacy to gun control of any sort: They only apply to the law abiding, and the law abiding were never the threat to the safety of society. They have NEVER applied to the criminal, as criminals are by definition outside of the law and could care less about the law. Hence, gun control only restricts and punishes the law abiding who are ultimately the victims. It is the same as any other criminal oriented black market activity -- if the money is there, the contraband will be there, no matter what restriction exists in law. The answer is not more restrictions but less.
 
The entire point of the 2A is to give the citizenry the ability to go toe to toe with the standing army (at least gear-wise). The people should have commercial access to any and all weapons allowed by the armed forces, under the same safety restrictions as the armed forces.

For an extreme example of my perfect world, you can buy VX nerve gas if you want (and can afford it). But you cannot keep it in a quart baggy in your refrigerator. That poses a clear danger to your entire town. You would have so secure it to military standards.

As long as I'm not endangering anyone else, I should be able to do as I please with my stuff and buy whatever arms I want.

Concealed carry laws should be repealed. They are good for nothing, and a clear infringement on the right to bear arms. The same goes for any kind of waiting period, red tape, or extra tax.


All of which is basically a long way of saying:
I do not believe in gun control of any sort.
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^+1.
 
If someone could point me to a gun law that actually had an effect on crime, I might consider supporting such a law.
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Now, I don't have any figures to support this, mind you--so at best this is an educated guess, based only on MY personal observations, and in one little corner of existence. But, I can think of one that DOES, IMHO work--and believe it or not, work for the best.

That is the NICS system/check.

I work once a week in my buddy's gun shop--he compensates me with store credit toward ANYTHING I want. (Where's that drool icon?)

I have seen first hand people getting nabbed with the NICS check. And, I'm sorry if this offends, but if a person is willing to break the laws of society on an at-will basis, they should not have access to firearms.

Is this too restrictive? I used to think so. Does this infringe on someone's rights? Perhaps.

But I'd rather not see Carl Crackhead or Marty Methmaggot walk into a store and walk out with a firearm. I'd rather not see someone who is a violent, assaultive felon walk out with a firearm.

Is the law with relation to assault or DV and the restriction of firearms a good thing? I say no--it paints with too broad a brush. But I believe that the idea is a good thing. Wanna beat your wife? Not if I have anything to say about it. And, let's just take this firearm so that you won't shoot her while you're at it.

Now, I do believe that the STUPID idea of a $200 tax stamp should be dropped. I do believe that the incredibly STUPID idea of banning a class of firearm simply because of characteristics should be canned. I do believe in NICS, though--especially in the case of full auto.

You want to flaunt and disregard the laws of our society? Fine. No guns for you.
 
(I knew I was gonna the unpopular voice around here, but hey, at least I've stirred the discussion...)

Except you will never see a complete lack of gun control in this country as long as there is someone governing it.

So, instead of pumping fists in the air and demanding the world, you should be wisely planning to take things by bits and pieces to gather together a collection of laws that best serves you, all the while keeping the rest of the rabble pleased enough. They compromise, you compromise.

Look to those hated antigunners, and see how they nickle and dime each little thing until eventually we see things like AWBs and 10 round mag caps.

Apply it in reverse, nickle and dime back. Give 'em an inch on one front, take a mile on another.
 
So, instead of pumping fists in the air and demanding the world, you should be wisely planning to take things by bits and pieces to gather together a collection of laws that best serves you
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Yep, folks often legislate themselves freedom.
 
gfen said:
Cars have laws that govern who owns them, who has the ability to operate them, their safety and all that. Why don't we start railing against vehicle registration and driver lisence laws? Because sometimes, it just makes sense.
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Maybe I'd agree with this analogy for guns that can be carried and operated in all areas a registered car would be operated. Bad analogy for guns that are stored and used off "public" areas.
 
But, I can think of one that DOES, IMHO work--and believe it or not, work for the best.

That is the NICS system/check.
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Umm, not really, not when you think about it. Yes, it does keep certain undesirables from buying guns AT RETAIL, from legit shops. But what it does instead is drive such sales underground into the black market, or create opportunities for those engaging in straw purchases at a profit. Meaning, it is an inconvenience for the criminals, but by no means is it any bar to them. They'll still get their weapons one way or another. By and large, Joe or Judy Scumbag will know that they can't just waltz into the gunstore (unless they are complete idiots -- granted, those will be weeded out), they'll buy it from the local black market gun dealer down the street. By and large, they'll have learned this at one of the assorted campuses of Crime University, otherwise known as your typical penitentairy. And even those idiots that do get weeded out end up being sent to the "school", not to repeat the mistake again.
 
Gun control is people control.

By making Saturday Night Specials and "Junk Guns" unavaible, lower-income types (who are also quite often minorities who are looking to protect themselves from thugs like you and me try to do as well) are prevented from owning firearms by De Facto.

By making concealed carry an issue regarding issuing liscenses, you disarm women and others who aren't able to go toe-to-toe with a 300 pound assailant wielding a bike chain. Hell even I couldn't take on someone that big. Imagine a girl smaller than me facing such an adversary.

By making "assault rifles" unavaible through bans based on mostly safety features (like heat shields, imagine them banning grill guards or bumpers on trucks), you effectively ensure the State has a monopoly on effective weapons. Remember the Pigs on animal farm? At the end they wielded whips, wonder why........could be because they had the guard dogs on their side, right?

By making gun registration enacted you follow in the foot steps of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialists. How many people went to Auswich with a rifle in their hands?

By banning gun shows you cripple honest business men and women from selling their wares to law-abiding citizens.

So gun control is also misogynistic, racist (it was used to keep Freed Blacks from getting "uppity"), anti-semitic, etc.

Gun control means handling recoil....haha
 
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Bud Helms is right on! Laws of prevention are misguided and assume that government knows whats best for us and I don't accept that. Laws by nature should be based on punishing those that don't comply not preventing those that do from exercising their rights.Gun control in any form is a feeble attempt by government to deal with the criminal element by restricting the rights of law abiding citizens!!!
 
shall not be infringed. that says it all andany law that violates that is wrong our founding fathers were a whole lot smarter than any elected offical today they got away from the gov't giving premission to it's citizens to allow what they wanted and the people are thier possesions. in this country the people are to be the bosses the right to bear arms is what secures the rest
 
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