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OHMYGOD!! Senate Repubs are caving...having 2nd thoughts
- Thread starter DC
- Start date
Senate In Surprise Bans Big Ammunition Clips
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate in an unanticipated stinging defeat for the powerful gun lobby Thursday voted to ban imports of high-capacity ammunition clips.
The amendment by California Democrat Dianne Feinstein had failed in previous years but it survived a procedural effort to kill it by a 59-39 vote Thursday night, and then was accepted on a voice vote.
High-capacity ammunition clips, which mean someone can keep shooting scores of bullets without stopping to reload, cannot be made in the United States, but they are still imported. Feinstein had been trying unsuccessfully for several years to close the loophole.
The vote was the latest in a series of fast-moving surprises, suggesting that the traditional gun lobby influence in the Senate may be waning after the Littleton, Colorado, high school shootings.
The Senate Wednesday rejected regulating gun shows. But amid a persistent outcry from Democrats accusing them of caving in to the National Rifle Association, Republicans reconsidered and said they would accept background checks for gun purchases at gun shows.
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate in an unanticipated stinging defeat for the powerful gun lobby Thursday voted to ban imports of high-capacity ammunition clips.
The amendment by California Democrat Dianne Feinstein had failed in previous years but it survived a procedural effort to kill it by a 59-39 vote Thursday night, and then was accepted on a voice vote.
High-capacity ammunition clips, which mean someone can keep shooting scores of bullets without stopping to reload, cannot be made in the United States, but they are still imported. Feinstein had been trying unsuccessfully for several years to close the loophole.
The vote was the latest in a series of fast-moving surprises, suggesting that the traditional gun lobby influence in the Senate may be waning after the Littleton, Colorado, high school shootings.
The Senate Wednesday rejected regulating gun shows. But amid a persistent outcry from Democrats accusing them of caving in to the National Rifle Association, Republicans reconsidered and said they would accept background checks for gun purchases at gun shows.
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
Mendo...
just a blurb on the radio. Senate Repubs are talking about reversing their vote and introducing their own bill very similar to the one defeated yesterday. Reason is that they can't take the negative spin.
This will end up being a TOTAL win for the anti's
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
just a blurb on the radio. Senate Repubs are talking about reversing their vote and introducing their own bill very similar to the one defeated yesterday. Reason is that they can't take the negative spin.
This will end up being a TOTAL win for the anti's
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Back to Rule By Poll!
NRA Caves?
From AP:
The Senate also agreed to a proposal by Sen. John Ashcroft, R-Mo., to ban juvenile possession of semi-automatic weapons and high- capacity ammunition clips. That vote was 96-2.
The maneuvering came as some Republicans expressed concern about the outcome of a series of votes Wednesday relating to so-called private sales at gun shows. ``There was a realization that there was a loophole that had to be closed,'' said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
Under the revised GOP proposal, Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, said all sales at gun shows would be subjected to the instant background checks.
Craig, a member of the National Rifle Association board of directors, said the organization had ``grudgingly'' agreed to the changes.
Craig described the changes as a ``clarification'' and an attempt to build on ``the accomplishments we had made'' on Wednesday.
Some Democrats offered a different description.
``He got caught weakening the gun laws. A lot of people here got sucked in and got upset,'' said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., referring to Republican senators.
McCain, in particular, underscored the shifting political dynamic on gun control following last month's fatal shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado.
Several GOP sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said private polling in recent weeks has shown very strong support for gun control, even among potential voters in Republican presidential primaries. That is a marked shift from the past, in which base Republican voters were less supportive of gun control than the nation as a whole.
Clinton and other Democrats made it clear they intend to use the issue in the elections in 2000. Republicans countered that gun control policy had hurt Democrats in 1994, when it last was a key issue. But at the same time, GOP lawmakers worked to revise their position.
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
NRA Caves?
From AP:
The Senate also agreed to a proposal by Sen. John Ashcroft, R-Mo., to ban juvenile possession of semi-automatic weapons and high- capacity ammunition clips. That vote was 96-2.
The maneuvering came as some Republicans expressed concern about the outcome of a series of votes Wednesday relating to so-called private sales at gun shows. ``There was a realization that there was a loophole that had to be closed,'' said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
Under the revised GOP proposal, Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, said all sales at gun shows would be subjected to the instant background checks.
Craig, a member of the National Rifle Association board of directors, said the organization had ``grudgingly'' agreed to the changes.
Craig described the changes as a ``clarification'' and an attempt to build on ``the accomplishments we had made'' on Wednesday.
Some Democrats offered a different description.
``He got caught weakening the gun laws. A lot of people here got sucked in and got upset,'' said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., referring to Republican senators.
McCain, in particular, underscored the shifting political dynamic on gun control following last month's fatal shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado.
Several GOP sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said private polling in recent weeks has shown very strong support for gun control, even among potential voters in Republican presidential primaries. That is a marked shift from the past, in which base Republican voters were less supportive of gun control than the nation as a whole.
Clinton and other Democrats made it clear they intend to use the issue in the elections in 2000. Republicans countered that gun control policy had hurt Democrats in 1994, when it last was a key issue. But at the same time, GOP lawmakers worked to revise their position.
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
Damn! Damn! Damn!
Has the way they voted been posted? And does anyone know if there is a site that keeps a voting record that can be viewed?
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John/az
"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
www.countdown9199.com
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited May 13, 1999).]
Has the way they voted been posted? And does anyone know if there is a site that keeps a voting record that can be viewed?
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John/az
"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
www.countdown9199.com
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited May 13, 1999).]
Rob Pincus
New member
See my new thread about the ban of hi-cap importations.. I hope someone can explain it to me...
There was not a peep about this on the news.
Again, I'm asking if there is a site that tabulates and displays the voting records.
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John/az
"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
www.countdown9199.com
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited May 13, 1999).]
Again, I'm asking if there is a site that tabulates and displays the voting records.
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John/az
"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
www.countdown9199.com
[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited May 13, 1999).]
Now the Repubs are doing the same thing the Demos do...refer to unsubstantiated polls and stab us in the back. Treacherous traitors.
I will NEVER vote for another Republican for anything. There is absolutely no difference between them and Demos
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
I will NEVER vote for another Republican for anything. There is absolutely no difference between them and Demos
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
John, this is the first reference I could locate.
From Reuters:
By a 96-2 vote, the Senate closed a loophole in a law that bans anyone under age 18 from buying a handgun. They extended that prohibition to youth purchases of semi-automatic assault weapons like Uzis or AK-47s, and they banned minors from buying high capacity ammunition clips. Two Republicans, Bob Smith of New Hampshire and Mike Enzi of Wyoming, voted no on the amendment by Missouri Republican John Ashcroft.
Note: Smith is running for President.
Also the Bill of Rights is not totally dead IF you are a media force:
In other votes during the day, the Senate rejected a proposal by Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., to forbid the broadcast of violent programming during periods when children are likely to form a substantial portion of the viewing audience. The proposal failed, 60-39, as critics expressed concern that it would violate the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech.
The Senate is saying TO HELL WITH THE SECOND AMENDMENT
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
From Reuters:
By a 96-2 vote, the Senate closed a loophole in a law that bans anyone under age 18 from buying a handgun. They extended that prohibition to youth purchases of semi-automatic assault weapons like Uzis or AK-47s, and they banned minors from buying high capacity ammunition clips. Two Republicans, Bob Smith of New Hampshire and Mike Enzi of Wyoming, voted no on the amendment by Missouri Republican John Ashcroft.
Note: Smith is running for President.
Also the Bill of Rights is not totally dead IF you are a media force:
In other votes during the day, the Senate rejected a proposal by Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., to forbid the broadcast of violent programming during periods when children are likely to form a substantial portion of the viewing audience. The proposal failed, 60-39, as critics expressed concern that it would violate the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech.
The Senate is saying TO HELL WITH THE SECOND AMENDMENT
[This message has been edited by DHH (edited May 13, 1999).]
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
Damn, what did we expect? I don't know. I know this-the Republicans and Democrats are what Thomas Jefferson would have described as "Hamiltonian Federalists." He fought them all of his life. He despaired towards the end. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
I think we are going to have to choose, folks. The powers that be are not listening to us. So the choice will be to either roll over and play dead or fight and, most likely, be dead. Hell, I'm going to die one day anyway.
I think we are going to have to choose, folks. The powers that be are not listening to us. So the choice will be to either roll over and play dead or fight and, most likely, be dead. Hell, I'm going to die one day anyway.
Sparticus and all others we all see what is waiting for us at the tunnel. Unfortunately most of us don't want to face the truth. We think by some magic the inevitable won't happen or only if we write one more letter it will change the course..NOT. We must be pro-active. Here are the choices as I see them Bend over,or ask the government to release several states to form a new country and all people who want to follow the constitution can migrate there or stop feeding the machine by stop paying taxes or do what is our constitutional duty and take back OUR country. The 1st one is easy, the second one not likely, the third one will only lead to the last. Take your pick.
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"Solidarity is the Key"
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"Solidarity is the Key"
I am sick...I am tired of calling, writing, pleading and for what. I have taught my kids and my grandkids right from wrong. Follow the law, be a good citizen, do no harm...They trust and believe in our country. They will move through their life with the things I have given them.
It is too bad that I will choose to go out obviously holding onto the constitution and the Bill of Rights while they drag me away, or take me out because there is no compromise. I will fight this to my last breath.
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No Comprimise. Infringement of my rights is a Crime!
It is too bad that I will choose to go out obviously holding onto the constitution and the Bill of Rights while they drag me away, or take me out because there is no compromise. I will fight this to my last breath.
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No Comprimise. Infringement of my rights is a Crime!
Spartacus: You are 100% wrong.(Not meant as a flame) The powers that be are listening.They are listening to the spreading voice of discontent. They listen to the questions of the voters. They know the true meaning of the 2nd, and how best to insulate themselves from their *subjects*. Just because they are politicians does not mean they are ignorant. They are working from the inside to insure that what they have remains in their hands. Every measure to limit the power of the gvt is circumvented later by another means. They count on the public as being shallow enough to accept what they say at face value. The result of Athens Tenn in the 40's isn't wasted on them. It is we that don't listen to them, or at leasy haven't until now. This thread is surprising to me. Cornered Rat posted similar fears months ago that the gvt is becoming what he and his parents left behind. Years ago I came to the conclusion that our country was becoming a *New Aristocratic Reign*. The titles of the new monarchs aren't king, queen or lord. A red flaf went off in my head when I first heard the term Drug Czar. Now the media throws that title around like using the term Mr, Mrs, Ms. Yes my friend, they listen, they listen all too well, and they understand. They want what money can't buy. Every time the subject is brought up to a politician about being there only to perpeuate their elected existance, they always fall back on the "If we were in the public sector, we could earn 3 to 10 times what we do as an elected official" It isn't a matter of money, money is easy to obtain. It is a matter of power and how to retain that power.
DC: I am taken completly by surprise by your statement. I had thought you reached that conclusion years ago. There is no differennce between the parties other than the spelling. Or is it a matter of not really wanting to believe what you already knew to be true.
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(!)
DC: I am taken completly by surprise by your statement. I had thought you reached that conclusion years ago. There is no differennce between the parties other than the spelling. Or is it a matter of not really wanting to believe what you already knew to be true.
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(!)
Brett Bellmore
New member
If the NRA agreed to this, "grudgingly" or not, I'm slicing my life membership card to bits the moment I've got confirmation. (Maybe a sack full of sliced up cards would get their attention?) It's one craven capitulation too many. As a character in an L. Neil Smith novel once said, "I don't mind so much having my horse shot out from under me, but I'll be damned if I'll shoot him myself!"
damn, damn, damn!!! damn those low life turncoat republicans. i could could really rant, but i'm sure that what i would say has already been thought of by most of the group.
them low down sorry a$$ anti-constitutional
SOBs!!! when is it gonna be time for us to take back what they've stolen??? i think this is gone about far enough. do i sound radical?
well let me tell you..... i am, and i am making no apologies for it!.......later
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fiat justitia
them low down sorry a$$ anti-constitutional
SOBs!!! when is it gonna be time for us to take back what they've stolen??? i think this is gone about far enough. do i sound radical?
well let me tell you..... i am, and i am making no apologies for it!.......later
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fiat justitia
According to news reports this morning, Clinton and Reno are powerful players in the Republican's backpedaling. Clinton's and Reno's statements of outrage over the pro-gun Republican vote earlier this week are, for some reason, being taken so forcefully that Congress is reeling from them.
However, to me the heart of the matter is this. The American public, to whom Congress is at least in part responding, has forgotten--if it ever fully realized--that William Jefferson Clinton is a serial liar, and that the media are interested chiefly in fanning the wildfires of hysteria, scandal, and blame. Clinton is baldly lying about the dangers of gun shows, and he's lying about the relationship between gun shows and the Colorado carnage (there is, of course, no such relationship). Meanwhile, the feeding-frenzied media accept and disseminate his lies uncritically.
I'm ashamed that our country is so easily suckered.
However, to me the heart of the matter is this. The American public, to whom Congress is at least in part responding, has forgotten--if it ever fully realized--that William Jefferson Clinton is a serial liar, and that the media are interested chiefly in fanning the wildfires of hysteria, scandal, and blame. Clinton is baldly lying about the dangers of gun shows, and he's lying about the relationship between gun shows and the Colorado carnage (there is, of course, no such relationship). Meanwhile, the feeding-frenzied media accept and disseminate his lies uncritically.
I'm ashamed that our country is so easily suckered.