Oh the infamous dead horse.

R

Rammer

New member
I'm sure that this has been beaten to death on this board, but please indulge me for a minute or two.

I grew up shooting with my Dad, who loved his hi powered rifles. (He had a beautiful M14 among others).

Many years after moving out, I've decided that a semi auto pistol is needed around the house for self defence reasons, and maybe some concealed carry as well.

So what's a good choice? I'd like to go no smaller than 9X19, but I'm flexible.

As they say, money's tight and times are hard....so I want to spend as little as possible. That doesn't mean "cheap" though. If it costs an extra one or two hundred bucks to ensure that me and family are safe, so be it.

I've been considering the Kel Tec P11. Seems like a reasonable alternative. A friend of mine that I shoot with occasionally, seems a little cautious about the Kel Tec brand though. His reasoning is that "you get what you pay for" and that there is a pretty obvious reason why they're inexpensive. I asked earlier about the Kel Tec and many of you responded, for which I thank you. Still on my consideration list.

I thought about the Taurus PT-145, until I noticed that a few of you have had some frame cracks. No thank you to that choice. I want it to go bang when I pull the trigger. If it doesn't, my only alternative might be to throw it at the attacker while they're distracted laughing.

So....what are the best choices out there? (Choices. Plural - if I can't find the best item for a price I can afford, then I need a second or third or fourth or fifth option).

I waffle on this a lot. Sometimes I think a Beretta Tomcat would be fantastic in .380 if available (I know, I said 9X19 minimum, but I also said I was flexible ;) )

Sometimes I think a Kahr or Kimber or Glock would make a fine choice. Then I look in my checkbook, and I think a good sized rock out of my front yard will have to do.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinions, and I'm open to all considerations. Thanks.

The Rude Rammer
Citadel '92
 
Sounds like you want a small gun:

You could look around for a used Kahr. They can be had for less than $400, the E9 model for closer to $300. The all metal models are outstanding.

If it doesn't have to be tiny, a new or used Ruger in 9mm or .45 can be had for less than $300. A P89 will never wear out and is quite accurate and reliable.

Spanish firms like Star and Astra both produced smallish nice quality guns that are cheap used. The "Rap" pistols from S. Africa are like the Astra A-75, but currently available.

EAA Witness pistols come in compact form for about $300. Based on the CZ-75, they can be had with the Glock like "Wunder" finish. Look at the Baby or Uzi Eagle as well.

There are many more, but you get the idea. A little research can yield a great used bargain.
 
Money is tight, you want a house gun, 9X19 or stouter.

How bout a used revolver in .38spec or .357mag. Two hundred bucks should get you something in great functional condition with some holster wear.

That leaves a lot left over for practice ammo.

Sam
 
If money is that tight check out the Mac. 9X18 made in Hun. Cost was $129.00 new with two mags. They are a bit heavy but most people are happy with theirs.

When things ease up for you this pistol should still bring $100.00 used.
 
Makarov in 9x18

Small enough for CCW

Slightly more powerful than 380ACP, but less powerful than your 9x19mm requirement - still powerful enough though

Reliable

Durable

Extremely accurate

Easy to get parts for

Ammo $5 per box, even for JHP's

$130 new in box

Add a Pearce grip for $15 and a sight improvement pack for $6 and you have a sweet all rounder

The Makarov will serve you very well, I wouldn't part with mine.

Mike H
 
Ruger P89. Indestructable 9mm, accurate, inexpensive. The P95 in polymer if you will carry (it has the same pluses, is a little smaller and is lighter and cheaper).

Ruger P90. See pluses of P89 but in .45acp. Also the P97 in polymer.

.38 or .357 revolver with a 2", 3" or 4" barrel. Accurate, inexpensive (new Taurus 85 snubbie in .38 or 82 with a 4" barrel, also .38s, go for under $300 most places, used you can probably get a good S&W model 10 retired cop gun for less than $200), reliable, safer for beginners. A good .38 +P self defense round is a good bet, a .357 mag is never underpowered. You can even find .357 revolvers from Taurus with 7 and 8 rounds, though they may be a little big for carry (especially the 8 rounder).

Kel Tec. Heard great things about the P11 and very concealable. For most people the trigger takes a ton of practice to get good (maybe not a great first gun, then again if you're not used to anything different). The little .32 may be even better but you aren't looking for anything that small and want a higher caliber.

CZ 75. Probably the best deal in guns. Very well made, sturdy (you think the Ruger is indestructable, well it ain't nothing), accurate, very inexpensive... It is available in 9mm or .40 and in 9mm form you can still get it with legal 15 round mags (the military and the police models).

Kahr. Great gun, concealable, but getting on the expensive side.

Glock. Not overly expensive, though higher than most of the others on this list. Tons of choices (size, caliber) in essentially the same gun.

Taurus PT911 (9mm) or PT940 (.40). These are steel framed autos and very good guns. The polymer Taurus guns are crap the steel framed guns are very good guns and the prices aren't bad.

Makarov. Not a 9X19 but the 9X18 Makarov round is better than the .380 and the gun is a little smaller (more concealable) than most 9mm. Highly durable (I don't think these can break), accurate and VERY INEXPENSIVE (how's around $150 sound if you buy on the net).

FEG PA-63. A Walther PPK lookalike. All the pluses of the Makarov (in the same caliber) and even less money (propably find one around $120 or $130 on the net).

These are in no particular order, just how they happened to come to mind. My preference really would depend upon when you ask me. Right now CZ, Taurus PT911, Taurus 85 (and/or related used S&W model), Mak or FEG, Kel Tec, Ruger, Glock, Kahr (odd, that's basically most of my "must have list" that I plan to pick up over the next year). Tomorrow...
 
Rammer,

You said that you wanted the inexpensive semi-auto for home defense, not for concealed carry, so I assume that small size is not a necessary requirement. Also, since the longest shot you'd be taking in the house is 25 feet (unless you have a hellova big house), target-grade accuracy is not a requirement.

That being the case, I'd recommend the Ruger P95 in 9mm or the Ruger P97 in .45 ACP. They're both polymer framed guns. If you want lots of rounds, get the P95 because you can still get pre-ban 15-rd mags for it. If you want the big bore, get the P97 with 8+1 rounds of .45 ACP.

Both guns are dead reliable. Accauracy is sufficient. Even with my tired old eyes, I can keep all of the P97['s rounds inside 3 inches at 15 yards -- other folks can do better, so the limitation is me, not the gun.

One nice thing about either of these pistols -- they are realaly easy to clean. They just don't seem to get dirty inside like my other semi autos (1911s, HK, Browning, Glocks). Also, you can still get either one of them for under $400.
 
I'm a happy Kel-Tec P-11 owner, but I'm not sure I would recommend it as a first handgun or as a house handgun. The long DA trigger makes it hard to shoot accurately without a lot of practice. The pistol itself is pretty accurate, but that long trigger pull will throw you off until you are used to it.

The P-11 really shines as a concealed carry pistol for a proacticed handgunner.

If you eventually plan to carry concealed, then the P-11 would be a good choice.

However, if you don't plan to carry concealed, I would get a revolver (.357 mag with 3-5" barrel) or a full-sized semi-auto pistol.

Like blades67, I am a fan of the FEG Hi-Power clone (the model PJK-9HP). It is an easy pistol to shoot well.
 
One other consideration since you mentioned concealed carry. I suggest SS to prevent rusting. This might limit your choices;but, would pay off in the long run.
 
I sure would urge that you consider a.........

9 mm Makarov. They are inexpensive (not cheap), reliable, and have decent power. Can't beat one for the price.
 
I'm glad to see all the fine advice this fellow is getting from my fellow members.

From all the glowing reports I've read here on TFL, I would be tempted to look into the CZ75 if I were you.

Personally though, I would stay away from the EAA Wit :barf:... the EAA Witne :barf:...

Well, it seems I've lost the ability to articulate this word (probably a kind of psychological defense mechanism like repression or something).
:D

Good luck with your search.
 
Around here, you can get a new Ruger P-95 for 279.00 + tax. This is a superb weapon for the money, and ,in my opinion, your best choice under your budget constraints. The CZ-75 can also be found quite reasonably, but here the ruger is least expensive.

Pat Brophy
 
Best Buy 9mm's

FEG Hi-Power (PJK-9HP)

Ruger P series

CZ 75

Really no other "major" makers give you better bang for your bucks. You could buy a surplus pistol like the makarov, but these 3 give you more factory options and doo-dads (ala aftermarket safeties, grips, sights etc).

Safe shooting.
 
Leaning towards Mak now

Thanks for the responses - now I'm leaning towards Makarov or FEG (or a revolver). Anything I would need to know about purchasing either of these?
 
The makarov is a great "budget" gun that is under-rated. The low price is not an indication of quality. The mak would be an excellent choice for concealed carry.
The cz line of pistols are also under-rated and are some of the finest combat pistols offered with reasonable pricing and excellent quality. However, like the ruger, they can be a bit large for concealed carry. The smaller cz83 is a top choice in a .380acp--but it is slightly larger than a mak.
Great buys are available on the revolver market. A 2" or 4" s&w model 10 or mdl 12 has been getting the job done for many years--and will continue to do so.
The flexability of ammo choice in a revolver could also be a big plus.
 
Another vote for the Makarov!

I just picked up my SECOND one. Hell, get one for the house, one for the car, one for the tackle box...:D (You get the idea).

Makarov.com will be the best couple of hours you can spend before you set off to buy your first one. Gunboards.com also has a Mak forum. Definitely study the markings of the different producers: "Circle 10" is Bulgarian, bifurcated triangle for Russian, circle inside diamond for East German.

Even the importers of these didn't always know what they had. My new was is a Russky 1976, but was mismarked with the word "Bulgarian" by the importer. Also, know that the Hungarian PA-63 is NOT a Makarov, even though it is chambered for the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. Not that there's anything wrong with it that I know of.

Let us know what you find. And have fun looking!!
 
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