OH Drive-Thru Store Owner Shoots Robber (Video)

[jimbob86]

needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...

There are plenty of reasons:

1) Handguns are underpowered. If they had enough power to deliver sufficient energy to incapacitate someone immediately, they'd need a stock to be controllable, and then they would not be a handgun anymore, would they?

2) That was a "two way range": You stand there and take the time for a precise shot, and you'll get shot.

3) I did not see any mention of the caliber used or if they were personal defense type loads- 4 hits (only one to the chest) with 9mm fmj target ammo might hurt like hell, but unless a major artery, the heart, brain or spine is hit directly, it's not likely to be incapacitating anytime soon .....

My suggestions:

1) A pistol is a defensive weapon. It's what you have with you all the time. In this situation, the store owner was going on offense, from his office. He should have taken a 12 guage pump gun to confront these goblins.

2) "Freeze!"???? I would not. Ok, if you want to say it, but if the goblin twitches, dust him with the 12 ..... and I doubt he will return fire after catching a load of buckshot at converasational distance.

 

[C0untZer0]

^ Pretty much agree except I think most semi-auto shotguns are pretty reliable now and a better choice than pumps.

I can't see on the video where the owner shot... some of those shots must have been taken while the BG was charging towards him guns blazing...

That's true grit !

Instead of saying "Freeze !" He should have yelled "Fill your hand you son of a bitch !!!"

 

[jimbob86]

He should have yelled "Fill your hand you son of a bitch !!!"

Good idea- that would have confused the man, as his hand was already full of gun, and bought a second or two while the guy puzzled it out!

 

[Nnobby45]

I would be upgrading to a "social shotgun" in my office if I were that clerk.

Me too. Along with a good pistol loaded, as per my preference, with HST or DPX.

 

[Nnobby45]

4 hits on a moving target (2 of them torso hits) while being shot at from close range is pretty good shooting. It's not very realistic to expect to do much better than that in a dynamic, real-world situation.

I agree. No way to tell, but those hits may very well have saved his life by preventing Bubba from unleashing any effective fire. My only criticism is making himself vulnerable by letting Bubba take the initiative.

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by BleedinPurple: needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...

That indicates two all too common misconceptions:

1. That 'shot placement' of the kind that one sees at a target range is at all achievable in a defensive encounter involving the need to get several shots into a fast moving target very rapidly at a rate of several shots per second. A session of high performance defensive pistol training with experienced instructors will correct that misconception even without someone shooting at the defender.
2. That pistol bullets should be expected to incapacitate effectively and rapidly. That idea may come from seeing too much television, or from confusing the violence of the flash and the boom and commotion in the shooter's hand with the likely effect on a human target.

As Bartholomew Roberts said, "Anybody who thinks that their firearm is a death ray is going to be surprised at the way the robber not only moves very quickly; but keeps moving and shoots back. They later found him collapsed about a block away from the store; but during the confrontation on video, he shows no signs he has been hit repeatedly".

Again, some good training will likely correct some false expectations.

 

[jrothWA]

Thinking and upgrade to fireams is coming..

most likely a auto loading 20ga??

Only suggestion would be to isolate the cashier position as a refuge.

He survived but was lucky.

 

[Nnobby45]

Posted by BleedinPurple: needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...

Hey, Purpleman, didn't you see the video?

The target was sprinting with his weapon (which he also fired) pointed at the store owner. The good guy put two rds. into his torso using a shooting technique that was reasonably sound under the circumstances.

If you'd ever seen participants using simunitions dancing, dodging, and ducking, and forgetting to shoot back (because they're anticipating being hit by non lethal ammo?, then you might give the store owner, who stood his ground in the face of real bullets, a little break here.

His error was tactical, since he didn't shoot when Bubba was standing there with a gun in his hand representing all the threat (if not more) necessary for the use of deadly force.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Deaf Smith]

"Ozier suffered four gunshot wounds to his chest, abdomen, leg and arm."

Not bad shooting in my book. I bet he jerked the first shot low, into the leg.. and notice Hahn used both hands to shoot.

Also notice he did not 'move and shoot' while the bad guy DID 'move and shoot' and missed while getting hit four times!

So this moving and shooting at the same time stuff might not always be the best idea.

Sadly as it says later, "This is the same store where the original owner was killed by a robber in 1994. " The area must be prone to robberies.

Deaf

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

So this moving and shooting at the same time stuff might not always be the best idea.

I think HOW you move is relevant. Had the robber moved to cover, he might not have been shot four times. As it was, the robber did not seek cover and chose to close the distance while presenting a zero deflection target. Probably not the best choice of moving and shooting available to him.

 

[manta49]

jimbob86. Quote.


3) I did not see any mention of the caliber used or if they were personal defense type loads- 4 hits (only one to the chest) with 9mm fmj target ammo might hurt like hell, but unless a major artery, the heart, brain or spine is hit directly, it's not likely to be incapacitating anytime soon .....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would the same go for .40 .45 ect. ?

 

[Pbearperry]

I am glad the store owner made out ok,however someone has to explain better tactics.Too much of his body was needlessly exposed.

 

[manta49]

Is the incident not a good argument for high cap mags. Stopping to reload in a situation like that would be fatal.

 

[Old Grump]

Is the incident not a good argument for high cap mags. Stopping to reload in a situation like that would be fatal.

Bigger heavier bullets might make a difference too, then you wouldn't need so many of them. As it was that store owner was cool and had a higher hit percentage than most people do in a shootout. Just because the target is close doesn't mean you can pinpoint your shots because it all happens right now.

Only time I ever saw a long drawn out gun fight was on TV. The one in Olongapo happened 50' from me and by the time I registered shots being fired it was over. In Chicago it was the same thing. 3 shots fired one man down and the other long gone from the scene by the time we all showed by the guy who was down. In Washington DC I never saw the shooter, just heard 3 shots and then the streets were empty and I do mean empty. Never saw a cop, don't know if anybody even called them. 5 minutes later street traffic was back to normal and nobody even mentioned the shots. So much for gun free cities.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Roberts,

It was not a zero deflection shot. It was a 70 to 90 degree deflection (right angles) shot.

And that is the hardest way to shoot at someone.

His real fault was trying to shoot (and just miss) while running by the attendant. And of course shooting one handed while moving is difficult at best, and really hard when you are getting hit from stem to stern in the process.

Deaf

 

[jimbob86]

jimbob86. Quote.


3) I did not see any mention of the caliber used or if they were personal defense type loads- 4 hits (only one to the chest) with 9mm fmj target ammo might hurt like hell, but unless a major artery, the heart, brain or spine is hit directly, it's not likely to be incapacitating anytime soon .....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would the same go for .40 .45 ect. ?

Low velocity, FMJ bullets are the worst choice in any caliber ..... but a bigger bullet of poor design would be better than a smaller one of the same design, if that's what you are asking.

More energy and a bigger wound diameter would stop an assailant quicker than less energy and a smaller wound diameter, placement being equal.

Hollow points at max velocities are better than FMJ at minimum..... but it's still a handgun and therefore underpowered.

 

[youngunz4life]

4 hits on a moving target (2 of them torso hits) while being shot at from close range is pretty good shooting. It's not very realistic to expect to do much better than that in a dynamic, real-world situation.

I agree. Also, this BG picked a bad time to use his testosterone to decide his actions. It isn't a coincidence in my book that the BG missed all of his shots while being hit 4 times. I also have to give credit to the man for coming to the defense of his friend, partner, and/or employee. He put his life on the line for another human being(not a store or money but another human being). Of course there is no way to know what would've happened if he stayed in the back. I bet he knew some people where that ended bad not to mention what happened to another employee at the same store in the early 1990's though.

 

[MTT TL]

Someone claiming to be cousin to one of the thugs is commenting on the article and telling the world about the injustice of it all. Good times.

Noteworthy that the guy who killed the previous owner was convicted and sentenced to death in 1994. He is still on death row.

I think this result is more satisfactory. Certainly cheaper and better.

 

[youngunz4life]

good point ^

it is bothersome also if this nitwit isn't charged with attempted murder! we all know what would've happened if that 'soda' shot had terminated the life of the good guy...

 

[C0untZer0]

I do think its important that states pass laws that forbid the assailants and or their families from filing a civil suit when there is a lawful DGU.

No matter how brutal the assailants are, no matter what heinous crimes they committed in the past or were in the process of committing, there is always someone who will get on the evening news and wail and cry "mah baby ! He shot mah baby !" Claims of vigilantism. Friends and relatives of the assailants will get on TV and claim he was gunned down in cold blood, and of the defender they will say “they took matters into their own hands.”

I don’t think it’s good tactics to yell “freeze” And in this case where the store owner did just that and everything is on tape, it didn’t stop the relatives of the assailants from starting their chirping anyway… all he did was put himself at risk.