Officer Kills Party-goer Armed with Toy Gun

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Darwin had a theory about people like the guy with a toy gun. :D
The gene pool just got some chlorine. :D
 
I'd be willing to make a side bet that some California legislator at least drafts some kind of nonsense bill restricting, banning, or regulating imitation guns of all types.

I can see it now, some poor kid can't get his hands on an Assault Cap Pistol in the future because Brainiac the Ventilated Actor clipped a hyper realistic airsoft or blowback replica from the prop dept to top off his Halloween party costume and used it to throw down on an unidentified shadow. Who turned out to be a startled cop. With good reflexes. And a real gun.

I hate it for the family of the deceased, and for the poor officer who'll remember it for the rest of his life. But folks, if Mr. Anthony Lee would pull a stunt like that, then it was only a matter of time before he strolled off a cliff by accident or forgot to breathe or something...

Dumb...

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 29, 2000).]
 
A lot of cities here in CA already have laws against toy guns. Of course, that didn't deter me from buying an AK-74 BB rifle. This rifle is made at the factory which produces the AK-74 and looks so real (they use real AK parts) that one can get shot carrying it.
 
A couple of things has me thinking about this. The first is, why didn't the police officer demand that the guy drop the gun before he started to fire? I can only guess that the body (the Officers) was pushing adenaline(sp) about 1000%. The second thing is that this is a house full of people. The officer fires through glass to hit the "bg". Luckly, this officer practiced at the range and was a good shot but people still got hit by the glass. It also surprises me that the officer's actually went into the home and were going "to the back". Most officers will stay at the door and wait for the owner or host to come to them. For two officers to be "surrounded" by so many people (most were prob. drunk or drinking) seems alittle strange. I'm not a police officer but it seems as if more and more people (LEO's) are becoming trigger happy while many People are just getting plain stupid. Also, this was a Halloween, Costume party, who's to say that this guy (the one who was shot) didn't think that it was just another party goer dressed up like an LEO? I can go down and buy a uniform, put some patches on it, go to the local pawn shop (or over the computer) and get the utility belt, the stick (don't know the name), handcuffs, radio, the whole nine yards. I think that this was just bad all the way around... I think that it's going to hurt us (the gunowners) the most. Just my .02.

USP45usp
 
Isn’t there a law somewhere on the books requiring that all toy guns have a florescent orange tip on the end of the barrel so someone can tell that it’s a toy gun? It seems like all the toy guns I see have that florescent tip. If the guy who got shot pointed a gun with a florescent tip and he still got killed what’s the point of the florescent tip? Did the cop “not” see the florescent tip? Did the cop care if it was a florescent tip or not?
 
First, I'd put even money that it was a very realistic looking airsoft or prop gun; this was Hellywood, the victim-in-waiting was an Ack-tor. "Replica" or "Prop" doesn't sound as melodramatic on the news as "Fake" or "Toy" does, though... We gotta keep the public tuned in! Don't want 'em thinkin' "Dumb cluck had it coming, waving a prop gun at a cop... Those things look real. Turn the channel, honey."

From the way I've put it together from the few articles I've read, it was a huge party. The heat showed up at the front door in response to a noise complaint. Asked to speak to the homeowner and whoever answered the door said they were around back. Rather than elbow through the house (200+ partygoers, I'm sure it was packed), the LEO's went around the side. They passed a glass (sliding? French?) door that opened on a darkened room. Walking past, one of the officers noticed a huddle of (three? four?) people in the dark room. Now, anyone who's been to a kegger in their life knows what that looks like. So the cop shines his flashlight through the door, and one of the persons whirls towards him pointing a pistol...
"Holy ___! They weren't smoking a joint! That's the 'party supplies' guy doing a deal! He's geeked out of his mind and he's gonna shoot me..." (Of course that whole sentence takes fractions of a second to think, rather than read.)

*Bang! Bang! Bang!*

End of story, at least for the dude with a fake gun...

I've been to a couple huge parties where God only knew who'd invited themselves in. I've stumbled across some pretty bizarre stuff at those parties. While this is tragic, it is perfectly understandable.

Fact of the matter is that Mr. Lee would still be alive if he hadn't done something that I've known not to do since I was a kid. He couldn't have known who was out there. There were more than 200 people at that party. You don't point toy guns at unknown persons; they might not get the joke.


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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 29, 2000).]
 
The only thing that redeems the deceased's actions in my mind is the concept that maybe he thought the cops were partygoers in cop costumes. As has been pointed out here, this WAS Hollywood, and sure, they could have just been guys in very realistic, movie-grade cop costumes...though I still think that the officer's action was justifiable, I would give the deceased the benefit of this one doubt.
 
I never undertsand how people can be such flippant jerks when a situation such as this goes down.

"Another one removed from the gene pool :D" Der hee-hee


Thanks for the input Banjo Boy, I'll remember to laugh at your funeral as well.
 
duckhunt, the costume question goes much further...

What screams out about this story is the omission about what Lee was wearing, among other details retained by LAPD. Apparently, they need time to spin.

Police Kill Actor at Halloween Party

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Los Angeles police officer responding to a noisy Halloween party at a mansion north of Beverly Hills shot and killed an actor, who police said pointed what turned out to be a fake gun at him, police said Sunday. Anthony Dwain Lee, 39, who appeared in the 1997 movie "Liar, Liar" and on several television shows including "NYPD Blue," was shot several times early Saturday by Officer Tarriel Hopper who fired through a glass door from an exterior hallway, the Los Angeles Police Department said in a statement. The shooting took place about 1 a.m. at a crowded party attended by scores of costumed guests, many of them actors and other entertainment industry professionals, at a mansion known as "the Castle" for its spires and stained-glass windows, the Los Angeles Times reported. It was not immediately known who owned the house or if the owner attended the party. "He was a Buddhist. He hated violence. It is amazing he died this way," Mitch Hale, a writer whose play "Buffalo Soldier" starred Lee and earned him a local acting award, told the newspaper. "He was an incredibly gifted actor and person. It's devastating ... Why did they shoot someone at a Halloween party?" Police said Hopper and Officer Natalie Humphreys were attempting to find the owner of the home in the Benedict Canyon area of Los Angeles after neighbors complained about the party. The officers were at the rear of the house when Hopper looked into a small room and spotted three people. Police said that when Lee saw the officers he pulled what looked like a handgun and pointed it at Hopper, who, in fear for his life, fired several shots from his service pistol, wounding Lee, the LAPD statement said. Lee was later pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics. Officer Charlotte Broughton, a spokeswoman for the LAPD, said many of the party-goers were in costume. One guest told the Times that some of guests were dressed as cops, but it was not known if Lee was wearing a costume. It was also not clear if Lee realized Hopper was a real officer with a real gun. The police department said Lee's supposed weapon was a fake, "a replica semiautomatic pistol, dark in color." The shooting is being investigated by the LAPD's Robbery-Homicide Division and a team from the district attorney's office. Another party-goer, Robert Hull, told the Times, "It was a shock that an officer would shoot at such a party. This was an exclusive party with security. Some of these people are making six figures, and this officer saw a toy gun at a Halloween costume party and opened fire." Another of the victim's friends, Mary Lin, told the newspaper, "His biggest fear was getting killed by cops, because he's a tall black man." Lee's friends said on Sunday they were planning to hold a candlelight vigil in his honor Monday evening.
 
The time it takes to reason, "Is that a replica or the real thing" is the time it takes to get shot.

If the officer, given his split second, registered the replica as a real weapon and shot, there is no foul.

I am sorry to hear of the incident. I understand both arguments. I cannot hold the officer accountable, however.

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NEVER dress up as a credible looking police officer. NEVER point a weapon, a replica, or a toy gun at someone you think is a credible looking police officer. The officer just might be very credible, and you just might have made ther last serious mistake in judgement in your life.
 
What he was wearing? Someone points a dark semi-automatic pistol at you, and you're going to stop and examine his clothes?

In Real Life, when someone points a gun at you, all you see is the gun. I pretty much only see the muzzle of the gun.

"Officer, was the suspect who allegedly pointed the gun at you black or white?"

"I don't know."

"Well, Officer, was it a silver gun or a blued one?"

"I don't know."

"Automatic or revolver?"

"I don't know."

Well, what do you know?"

"The muzzle was that !&^$ing big around."

In Real Life, when someone turns and points a gun at you, you don't care about his race, religion, socio-economic status, upbringing, politics, or gender. You just care about living past the next few seconds.

In Real Life, critters aren't required to wear certain articles of clothing. They don't all look like vatos or homeboys or skinheads.

And, believe it or not, critters are allowed to wear costumes while attempting to take your life. They can dress up as the Pope, Mother Teresa, Tinky Winky or Barney and still try to kill you. (An oversight, I know, but I'm sure the Democrats will make it unlawful to dress as anything but a critter when committing a crime.)

LawDog
 
Hypothetical...

Kids are playing cops & robbers with authentic-looking toy guns.

Neighbor or passerby who doesn't know it is a game calls 911.

Cops respond.
See a kid pointing a gun at another kid.
Shoot the gun wielder.

oops
 
Without reservation, I'll side with the police officer on this one; Furthermore, we already have too may ACTORS and most of them are liberal anti-gun Democrats.

This police officer responded automatically, as trained, to a threat to his life. I certainly don't blame him.

As said by others, this deserves special consideration for the next Darwin award.

[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited October 30, 2000).]
 
So let's ban all toy guns that could be in any way perceived as real guns. That would leave paintball and super soakers - maybe.

Thus anyone who wants one for their kids had best buy them now before this year's Halloween stock is gone. Next year there may not be ANY toy capguns, squirtguns, etc. No police costumes or other paraphenalia either.
 
The replica gun at 0100 hours is a non issue. Who in the heck could identify a replica at that time of the morning. What I'd like to know is if the officer ever identified himself. If not, could the officer have retreated and then attempt to identify himself as a real leo? Did the officer know that there were others at the party that were dressed as fake leos?

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"
 
I truly doubt that a bleaching of the gene pool actually took place. What happened is a tragic accident. We have all pointed fake guns at other people from time to time. As a kid we did it all the time. As an adult we play paint ball or simunitions games. Some who have acted have "killed" people during their roles. Chances are that the poor guy looked out the back window of the house, where cops dont normally snoop around and assumed that they men sneaking around were party goers. He was a fatal example of the ASS-U-ME principle. One really cant blame the COP for shooting though. Each and every one of us would probably have fired in the same situation.

What I have to question is the COPS wisdom in snooping around the home to begin with. Dont know the layout of the residence, but I would bet they would have had to enter private property without permission to get around the back of the house. My thoughts would have been to ask someone to get the owner and wait by the door.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
A noise complaint from a Halloween party. People dressed in costumes. Some dressed as cops. Authentic looking costumes. I can see how this tragedy developed.

Any LEOs want to comment? It is easy for me to say, after the fact, the cops should have known something like this could happen. Would the average LEO even consider the possibility?

I guess I have been hardened by the relentless attacks from the left. I have little sympathy for someone who clearly had little respect for responsible firearm behavior.

How many TFL'ers would be comfortable waving a fake gun around, pointing it at people? I am not. I find it offensive. Irresponsible.
 
The remarks that some of you have given really amaze me. You keep trying to question whether the cop analized the situation fully before he shot.
MY GOD! if someone would have pointed a gun at me, not a cop but CCW holder, I would have leveled him with a double tap.

Do you know how many cops die because they casually walked into a trouble call and out of no where someone has a gun?
Do you think a guy that's making the kind of money actors make is going to go to a costume party with a fake gun that doesn't at least look a little real?

This cop deserves a medal for reacting so quickly.

On the issue of toy guns I think I differ from most of you.
I don't think children should play with toy guns. I don't think a child should learn that guns are to play with and it's ok to run around the yard and go Bang! Bang! Your dead Johnny!
My children started at 6 and 8 years old by learning to shoot a pellet gun. They were always supervised and could not even touch the gun unless they could recite the gun safety rules. Now at 9 and 11 they both come shooting with me. My younger son own's a 22LR and my oldest will be getting a rifle for his birthday.

They know what guns are and they know they are not toy's.

The closest they come to toy guns are those water blasters that look like a multicolor space gun. They know the idea is to get people wet, not kill them.

I don't think they should be banned though. That's a decision that we have to make, not the government.

This is the problem with our society. We let our kids watch movies where everyone dies with guns shooting everywhere. We let them play with toy guns and make believe they're killing people. After they finish play killing, everyone get's up and go's home for lunch.
Then they grow up, become an actor, make movies that glorify killing and blood shed, and later point a gun replica at a cop.

This leads to comments like this,

"He was a Buddhist. He hated violence. It is amazing he died this way,"

If this is true then WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING WITH A GUN REPLICA!!! Sounds like a inapropriate costume scheme for a guy that hates violence.

Again,
I applaud that cop. A gun barrel leveled on him and he responded. If this guy were just holding it or wearing it the cop probably would have issued a command. Once that gun leveled, all bets were off.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA
 
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