Off my back porch I have this beautiful view of a cornfield where deer often hang out. On the far end it's about a 500 yard shot and my .30/30 isn't up to the task. I'd like something that can put a deer down at that range. I've got it into my head that I want a bolt action in 300 Winchester Magnum but I wanted to hear other opinions.
off my back porch
- Thread starter John Frum
- Start date
pabuckslayer08
New member
Before you fire get yourself 25 yards atleast from the house, as a officer in training thats frowned upon. Anywho for 500 yards that takes some real equipment to be good at it. A bolt is a must in my mind. Caliber can very, the .300 is capable with no issues and many others are the same like the 7mag. Not sure what for budget your looking at but if no budget is present then go custom, just get something built for your need. If you are on a budget your going to need atleast 1500 bucks to get started and be accurate. A good factory rifle is Remington Sendoro in the .300 or 7mm mag, the rifle comes with a new designed trigger that works very well, floated and bedded barrel as well as fluted barrel for cooling. They run around 1150 at most shops around me, for a scope then you can get away with a good Nikon Buckmaster 4x12 and a good set of Leupold bases and rings and your right around 1500 bucks. Also do you reload, if you do a .75" moa shouldnt be a issue, if not buy the best ammo you can get, ask friends to try ammo that the gun may like before buying a whole box. Something my Remingtons all like is a ballistic tip Nosler from Federal, they run 40-50 bucks a box for my 30-06 an .270 so expect 60 bucks for the .300 mag but its worth it. You can not be good with junk ammo.
Anything with bullets with at least a .500 BC and at least 3000 f/sec muzzle velocity ....... 7mm Mag or one of the Weatherbys would fit the bill.
Or maybe a 7mm S(hoots) T(o) W(isconsin).....
That and it would have to hold 1MOA accuracy- that's a 5" error at 500, which keeps the bullet in the boiler room if everything else is perfect.
Or maybe a 7mm S(hoots) T(o) W(isconsin).....
That and it would have to hold 1MOA accuracy- that's a 5" error at 500, which keeps the bullet in the boiler room if everything else is perfect.
1: Check your local laws. Some hunting regs prohibit firing within "X" feet of a building/road/whatever.
2: Find a good ballistics program (like this one) and play with some numbers. Find out what the bullet does when you mess up the windage call by 4 MPH (about 7" for a full value wind), or 30º (another ~3"). Find out what the bullet does when you mess up the range call by 50, or even 25 yards(about 3" drop per 25 yards). Remember, errors are cumulative (using Horn 180 BTSP @ 3200 FPS).
2: Go do some shooting at 500 yards. Get a 12" square steel plate. Have a friend put it at a at random spots in your cornfield. When you can hit it with the first shot on 10 consecutive days, then you are good enough to take a shot at a living animal at that range.
2: Find a good ballistics program (like this one) and play with some numbers. Find out what the bullet does when you mess up the windage call by 4 MPH (about 7" for a full value wind), or 30º (another ~3"). Find out what the bullet does when you mess up the range call by 50, or even 25 yards(about 3" drop per 25 yards). Remember, errors are cumulative (using Horn 180 BTSP @ 3200 FPS).
2: Go do some shooting at 500 yards. Get a 12" square steel plate. Have a friend put it at a at random spots in your cornfield. When you can hit it with the first shot on 10 consecutive days, then you are good enough to take a shot at a living animal at that range.
sc928porsche
New member
Shooting deer out to 500yds is for someone who has put a lot of trigger time on the rifle he is going to use. The 300WM that you mentioned will provide good energy at that distance for dropping deer as long as the shot is properly placed, but you will have to do your part to get the job done. There is no other way to accomplish this task than to spend a lot of time shooting at that distance. When you are capable of shooting the target in the black first time and every time, you should be good to go.
I have hunted with the 300WM for many years now (40) and take shots out to 400 with success but I also spend a lot of time on the range with it, along with other rifles. There is absolutely no substitute for practice at the distances you will be shooting.
I have hunted with the 300WM for many years now (40) and take shots out to 400 with success but I also spend a lot of time on the range with it, along with other rifles. There is absolutely no substitute for practice at the distances you will be shooting.
Get a 308, some 168 grain Ballistic Tip bullets, and set up a 12" by 12" gong at 500. You don't need a 300 Magnum bolt action rifle to kill deer at 500 yards.
You need a repeatable rifle, good DOPE and practice. When you can ring the 12" by 12" gong 5 out of 5 shots, replace it with an 8"x8" gong.
Jimro
You need a repeatable rifle, good DOPE and practice. When you can ring the 12" by 12" gong 5 out of 5 shots, replace it with an 8"x8" gong.
Jimro
The 300 Win Mag is more than capable at that distance but if you have never shot one I suggest you do before buying. I purchased one years ago and thought at the time it would be the last big game rifle I would ever need and that turned out not to be the case. The gun kicks like nothing else I have ever shot and after just a few rounds I can find no joy in shooting it. A friend has a 7 Rem Mag and after shooting it I knew I had made a mistake. The 7 is just as capable as the 300 only without the kick. If you have your heart set on 30 caliber magnum cartridges you may want to take a look at the short mags. I got a 300 WSM for my son and while the recoil was still noticable, it was easier on me than the Win Mag.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Not a lot different deal from what I did years back. I'd go down to my loading pen and watch the deer move out into the oat patch not long before sundown. Sit and read a book and wait.
Out to 500 yards any cartridge around .30-'06 performance with a 150-grain bullet will work quite nicely. That's family experience, anyhow. The main thing is doping the wind. Having a good, firm rest is an obvious necessity.
I'd reach into my bag of dirty tricks and put range markers out at 300, 400 and 500 yards.
I wouldn't call it "hunting", but meat's meat. Sort of a do-it-yourself grocery store deal.
Out to 500 yards any cartridge around .30-'06 performance with a 150-grain bullet will work quite nicely. That's family experience, anyhow. The main thing is doping the wind. Having a good, firm rest is an obvious necessity.
I'd reach into my bag of dirty tricks and put range markers out at 300, 400 and 500 yards.
I wouldn't call it "hunting", but meat's meat. Sort of a do-it-yourself grocery store deal.603Country
New member
I don't think that you really have to have a 300 mag to 'get lunch' at 500 yards. I'd feel Ok with a 270 or a 30-06 or a 6.5-06 with a good bullet, if I had shot it enough to know just where the bullet strike was going to be. And I certainly agree with what somebody said about 3000 fps being a good muzzle velocity for what you want to do. And what Art said about the range markers is great advice, and put some thin orange plastic streamers on the range marker sticks so you can gauge the wind. That's gonna matter at 500 yards. My 270, sighted in at 200 yards, drops about 7 inches at 300, 20 inches at 400, and 40 inches at 500. That difference, of 20 inches of drop, between 400 yards and 500 yards is significant to any of us but the serious long range guys. And, one last thing....like you, I shot a 30/30 or 35 for many years before stepping up to a flatter shooting caliber. The problem I found that I had was I instinctively tended to shoot high with the 270, because I had taught myself to always aim high on the deer with the 35 (top of the kill zone and drop the bullet in). Just about every time I had to rush the 270 shot, I shot high. Took years to correct that tendency.
For deer, you don't really need 30 caliber. Why beat yourself up unnecessarily with a 30 caliber magnum?
Look for a magnum in the 243/6mm, 270, or 7mm calibers. I'd probably try to find a 6mm, then you can load it with lighter bullets have a varmint rifle too and snipe smaller animals at range too. (raccoons, moles, coyotes, feral cats) Maybe this is frowned upon, but you could eat them too! I bet in a Crock Pot, even raccoon can taste good.
A bolt actions are not needed. You could easily do it with a MoA single shot, like a T/C Encore.
The yardarge markers is a great idea. Cheaper than a rangefinder, and no batteries needed!
You'll need to do some homework on your handload as far as bullet drop, and also for windage.
I agree that calling it hunting is a stretch, but it will be fun and put meat on the table, and keep one more deer off the roads too!
Welcome to The Firing Line.
Look for a magnum in the 243/6mm, 270, or 7mm calibers. I'd probably try to find a 6mm, then you can load it with lighter bullets have a varmint rifle too and snipe smaller animals at range too. (raccoons, moles, coyotes, feral cats) Maybe this is frowned upon, but you could eat them too! I bet in a Crock Pot, even raccoon can taste good.
A bolt actions are not needed. You could easily do it with a MoA single shot, like a T/C Encore.
The yardarge markers is a great idea. Cheaper than a rangefinder, and no batteries needed!
You'll need to do some homework on your handload as far as bullet drop, and also for windage.
I agree that calling it hunting is a stretch, but it will be fun and put meat on the table, and keep one more deer off the roads too!
Welcome to The Firing Line.
Around here, the shots are usually long. Most hunt senderos at yardage ranging from 500-800 yards. They are hunting from blinds that more resemble a shooting bench enclosed. They also use wind flags at the measured distances so they pretty much know the exact yardage. Different colored flags helps to make the determination quicker.Most of these guys are practiced shooters and shoot weekly and some daily at ranges. They shoot the 300 Win Mag and will use the Speer 125gr TNT bullet. At the yardages, it performs like a game bullet whereas a game bullet at that yardage doesn't perform at all, it just punchs a hole. Obviously, it won't work at close ranges unless you like hamburger as the bullet is going to explode on the hair. You'll also find a bullet drop chart right next to them so they have a clue where to hold. I can't say that this is for you but it works down here.
If you want a long shot use a .308 or a 30-06, with 160-180 gr boat tail soft points you get a truer flatter flight with boat tails. You dont need a 300 mag, that's allot of bang for just a deer. With the .308 or 30-06 you can get ammo nearly every were and its relatively cheap,and it has enough power to stop the game your going after. When I hunt I like to get down in the trails. I have a bolt action 30-06 and a semi auto 308. It just depends on what the trails look like with which rifle I take. i have a hunting buddy that swears by a .223, and another that uses a .45 cal hawken style BP rifle. When you get finally get whatever rifle, go to the range and practice practice practice at 500+ yards on a 12 inch target. There's a lot of plinking and paper season between deer seasons, best thing to test a round is to live fire it. Programs use theories to test rounds.,Mother nature is the true test for any loads of any round.
MOshooter65202
New member
300 WM will fit the bill for those 500 plus yard shots.I shoot a 7mm rem mag. on a large farm with big crop fields where I have taken several deer over 500 yards,with good shot placement the 7mm rem mag w/160 grain Noslers@ nearly 3100 fps acts like the hammer of thor!!!
Methinks you are quibbling......
The errors made in wind doping/range estimation will be smaller.
It is easier to hit a target at 500 with a flatter shooting magnum than a 30-06 in the same manner that it is easier to hit a target at 300 with a 30-06 than a 30-30 ...... sure, the calculations are the same, but the values are smaller...... but it certainly easier to use the former.
And one more consideration: Time of Flight. The OP is considering shooting a deer at 500 yards. The faster the bullet gets there, the less time the animal has to move..... .5 second is better than .7 seconds, as 36" bullet drop is better than 60" of bullet drop..
The errors made in wind doping/range estimation will be smaller.
It is easier to hit a target at 500 with a flatter shooting magnum than a 30-06 in the same manner that it is easier to hit a target at 300 with a 30-06 than a 30-30 ...... sure, the calculations are the same, but the values are smaller...... but it certainly easier to use the former.
And one more consideration: Time of Flight. The OP is considering shooting a deer at 500 yards. The faster the bullet gets there, the less time the animal has to move..... .5 second is better than .7 seconds, as 36" bullet drop is better than 60" of bullet drop..
In addition to the fact that Speer does not recomend pushing this bullet fastet than 3100 (will it fly apart?- I have heard of that happening with light varmit bullet at high speeds) .....
..... that bullet has an abysmal BC, compared to other long range hunting bullets that are designed to expand at long range (Ballistic Tip, SST, etc.).....
...... there are better choices out there. Because "that's the way we done it" does not mean it is the best way, or even a good idea.
Jim is right.
I posted some numbers a couple days ago In another thread as an example.
When you call the wind is 60º at 8mph, but it is really 90º at 12, how bad do you miss?
At 500 yards with a 6.5-06 (140 SMK @ 2923fps) you are off by 1.5 MOA, which is just under 8 inches. A couple of extreme examples for comparison (which I have wind dope sheets worked up for) are the 30-06 150 FMJ, and .223 55gr FMJ. For the same error, the .30-06 will be off by 2.3 MOA (about a foot) and the .223 will be off by 3.1 MOA (~16").
Now a heavier .30-06 load will be a little better than M2 Ball (and a lot better than M193), but you get the idea.
I posted some numbers a couple days ago In another thread as an example.
When you call the wind is 60º at 8mph, but it is really 90º at 12, how bad do you miss?
At 500 yards with a 6.5-06 (140 SMK @ 2923fps) you are off by 1.5 MOA, which is just under 8 inches. A couple of extreme examples for comparison (which I have wind dope sheets worked up for) are the 30-06 150 FMJ, and .223 55gr FMJ. For the same error, the .30-06 will be off by 2.3 MOA (about a foot) and the .223 will be off by 3.1 MOA (~16").
Now a heavier .30-06 load will be a little better than M2 Ball (and a lot better than M193), but you get the idea.