Odd encounter with law enforcement.

Daddycat, in all of my dealings with the police, both at my business and at home, they always ask for that information, and I always give it freely. Last February, a freelance assistant working with me ran for lunch. After an hour I went looking for him, only to find his car with a squad parked alongside. The officer asked for that information, plus my business phone. By the time I returned to the shop, the police called to tell me he had died from a heart attack and asked my help in finding his wife. Without my name and so on, they wouldn't have been able to find her for many more hours. Seems reasonable to me.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
DaddyCat;

You wrote that he gave you his card; as a matter of curiosity, why don't you ask him? He already has enough info to apply for a credit card in your name. Asking why (in a nice subserviant way) should not draw more attention to it. Hope he is one of the many good ones.
 
It is SOP for the department I worked for to obtain the information you are asking about on everyone who may be mentioned in a report. Upon review by a sargeant, woe to the officer who failed to include the requisit information.
 
Daddycat, Lawdog pretty much summed it up. Erik hit it on the head too, it's SOP. I would have mentioned you in my report as" Mr. Smith, of unit #9, stated he had seen several juveniles...". Your wife's vital's weren't needed, and I would have deemed that intrusive. The officer could/should have prefaced his request with,"Now, if I may just get your name and d.o.b. for my report Sir, I'll be gone. And, thank you for your help." :)
 
The guy is doing a "knock and talk" . . . He's gathering data about the people in the neighborhood.

LEGALLY, you don't have to even answer the door. You're entitled to tell him you want him off your property unless he has a warrant. (In which case he may have reason to find probable cause for a warrant.)

But he needs to provide names of his contacts in his report. Complete name and DOB is pretty accurate ID. He can get your wife's stats from the public record.

When you invite him into the house he gets to look around and size you up. That's intrusive, but then you have nothing to hide. If you were hiding stolen materials you'd not let him in the house.

You have his card. Give him a call and ask him how the investigation is going, if you should be on the look out for anything specifically suspicious. He'll appreciate the contact, but everyone's a suspect until he can rule you out.

That's just the nature of police business. It's sort of suspicious, but the job is catching suspects and that takes being suspicious.
 
Erick-
I understand that you, as LEO, are required. I've no problem with that....I've got a problem with the requirement. If I have to put you on the spot by refusing, I will.

If enough people take issue, there's a chance the bean counters will back off. If not, well, I at least feel better.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 26, 2000).]
 
Count my department among those that encourage accurate identification of anyone mentioned in a report. I usually just ask anyone I am interviewing for thier DL, then Iwrite down or radio in the SSN, it is less confrontational than asking those intrusive follow-u[ questions, and most people are used to the idea of handing a cop their license. Asking someone detailed personal questions when they have not been involved in any incident can be a fast track to a meeting with a Sgt about "Community Policing" and not offending the citizenry.. (yes, the same Sgt who sends you back reports that don't contain the detailed personal info!!). I try to circumvent the confrontation with a friendly "I want to make sure I know who I'm talking to."
Once I've got the SSN, I'm home free. That way no one really gets put on the spot. If the guy objects to my noting his SSN, I can explain it afterwards....

I agree that it seems rather intrusive to gather info on seemingly uninvolved people, but I've been involved in cases where "The Nieghbor" had moved and we didn't have anyone to ask if they had seen a certain car on a certain day, or whatever. If we'd've had their SSN or full name & DOB, we might have been able to look them up, find them and establish some PC that might help us a catch a criminal.

Bruels,
I think I took Juan to the Detox Center last week, if you guys are still looking for him. ;)

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-Essayons
 
Originally posted by Xero:
The guy is doing a "knock and talk" . . . He's gathering data about the people in the neighborhood.

LEGALLY, you don't have to even answer the door. You're entitled to tell him you want him off your property unless he has a warrant. (In which case he may have reason to find probable cause for a warrant.)
=================================
A warrant could be issued only under an oath of affirmation as to the cause. Faking the cause will leave him and his department
liable for perjury, harassment under color of the law and the like.
You have made many mistakes in the whole affair.
#1. Do _not_ let anyone uninvited into your house, _especially_ a LEO. If you are willing to talk to him, you can do it outside of your door, ot with him outside and you inside.
#2. Do not answer any questions unless the
person asking them _first_ produces an ID and lets you copy it, for future reference. If he refuses, politely ask him to leave and possibly report an attempted burglary by someone impersonating a police officer.
#3. If the questioner goes on a fishing expedition, start asking _him_ all sorts of private questions about his and his family's life, etc. Follow it up with a _written_ complain cc to the DA, your state reps, etc,
about police harassment - to dicourage further questions on their part or worse.
#4. Read carefully all the advice you got above from LEO's, and realize they are not
working to serve and protect you, only themselves. Not one of them said flatly that
you should have thrown the bum out of your house, as you would have done if he were
asking all these questions without an uniform.
#5. Above all, don't be a sheep.



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LowClassCat
Always willing to calculate my chances
Click to expand...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob:
Count my department among those that encourage accurate identification of anyone mentioned in a report. I usually just ask anyone I am interviewing for thier DL, then Iwrite down or radio in the SSN, it is less confrontational than asking those intrusive follow-u[ questions, and most people are used to the idea of handing a cop their license. [/quote]
And its required in many places to show a DL when asked for it by a LEO.
 
My dear LawCat,

What a fascinating post. May I keep it? I should like to send it to the Op-Ed section of the local and regional newspapers whenever the papers print a rabid letter from an outraged citizen demanding to kow why a rape or murder has not been investigated to their complete satisfaction.

"Why aren't our lazy cops investigating the rape/mutilation of my daughter."

"Well, we're trying, but severyone seems to be taking this advice:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>#4. Read carefully all the advice you got above from LEO's, and realize they are not working to serve and protect you, only themselves. Not one of them said flatly that you should have thrown the bum out of your house, as you would have done if he were asking all these questions without an uniform.[/quote] and throwing our detectives out of their houses. I guess your daughter will just have to get over it."

I should probably also get a copy for CNN and the local stations.

LawDog
 
It seems to be a double-edged sword, friends. We zealously guard our privacy, yet we need to cooperate as a community in order to catch the BG's.

--Denise

PS. Get the SS number off your DL and out of your wallet entirely. If you get complaints, speak of the rash of identity-theft crimes and your desire to not be a victim of them.
 
If he wasn`t thorough, would you feel more comfortable???

What if it was your home he was trying to protect...

BE FORTHCOMING, IT HELPS...

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SHOOT,COMMUNICATE AND MOVE OUT !
 
Well since no one else said it. Maybe the guy in uniform is looking at buying a house. And is just checking out potential neighbors? :)

I have worked with more than a few LEO and retired LEO becuase I have worked in security. They are people like any others. There are good, bad, & ugly.

I don't let STRANGERS in my house. It is a question of home and personal security. A cop is an armed stranger. That is probably wearing body armor.

In my home town the LEC fired a cop who worked DRUNK and the drunk took them to court and they were forced to hire him back because it is a "disease". I don't follow the logic, it is illegal to drive in that condition but you can't fire someone who drives a squad car with a gun on his belt because he won't stay sober? Would you want someone like that in your home?

I think Lawdog part of the problem with IA or anything else is that power does tend to corrupt or at least lead to excess.
 
Folks, those of you who would fail to answer basic information to help further an investigation deserve whatever crime happens in your area.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erik:
Folks, those of you who would fail to answer basic information to help further an investigation deserve whatever crime happens in your area.[/quote]

"Do it for the children?"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erik:
Folks, those of you who would fail to answer basic information to help further an investigation deserve whatever crime happens in your area.[/quote]

Erik,
These people that refuse to help out are the same ones that complain that LEOs can't catch a criminal.

Lawcat,
Photo copy their I.D.? Report a possible burglary if they don't allow you to photo copy it? I hope you don't live in my community because I would be upset that the LEOs are wasting time tying to deal with you. I wonder how you would feel if you were the vicitm of a crime and other people were playing your games.

"Do not let anyone into your house uninvited, especially an LEO".

I agree with you on this one. I think you should only let BGs into your house. The only problem with this is the LEOs will come in later to do a crime scene investigation.
 
I have had LEOs come to my house a few different times regarding kids breaking into things around the neighborhood. I personally take a lot of walks at night, and I know damn well there were no vandalisms in the places they were saying there were. They were out fishing for information, plain and simple. I have a LEO that lives next door and he informed me that one of my other neighbors (new to the area) didn't like the fact that he saw me carrying a gun from the door of my house to my car(unloaded.....). So the guy called the department, and those two were sent out to try and find out more about me. When I asked for information on exactly what vandalism had taken place and where, they wouldn't tell me, when I pushed the issue they said a couple houses over, which I know isn't true, and then I asked them who they were and exactly why they were coming to my house making up stories and asking for personal information. They wouldn't tell me any of the above over than "I'm officer so and so". I was very mad about it and called their commander, who was a bit peeved about having to deal with it, and they got in a bit of trouble, but not enough.

Moral of this story: My neighbor, good LEO. The guys that came to my doorstep, bad LEOs. Their commander, apathetic LEO.

They do indeed come in many flavors. If they come to my house and talk to me like a person they are out to serve and protect, then I may invite them in at some point, but only if they continue to treat me with respect, otherwise only if they have a warrant. Because LEOs are sometimes good and sometimes bad, if I don't know them personally, I always come to the door armed, LEO or not (though I don't make my weapon visible). Bad LEOs are every bit the enemy a BG is, in many ways they are more so, because they have very broad powers to abuse.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
Oh my, a badge is a pretty small shield to stand behind when such slings and arrows are being unleashed at you. If you do right... you will be right. Believe in the American citizens Constitutional rights and not how you are going to look to your boss or promotion board.
 
Those of you who are bashing cops need to get a dose of reality.
If you have questions about why something was done a certain way
1-call the officer and speak to them
2-Arrange a ridealong and see first hand why things are done a certain way
My reports are required to have first, middle, last names, DOB, home address, phone and race of person dealt with, or the report gets kicked back.
There is not some evil conspiracy here.
 
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