Odd-ball question v Florida

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Dr_Rich

New member
Ok, I've been posting here and there and I feel kinda weird because theirs no introduction thread for n00bs to say hi. So, hi there. I'm Dr Rich. I'm not really a Dr, but I play one at work. A computer Dr that is.

Anyway, moving on. Heres my question.

My boss lives out in the boondocks and has 10 or so acres and has a pile of pigs that he keeps right behind his house. About 7 or 8 pigs in all. Now the area where he lives in mostly farm land. But in the spot where he is, there are a few neighbors that live pretty close. By close, I mean within 500' but not closer than 200'. And they have dogs that are never on a leash or locked up in any way. The dogs have broken into my bosses yard and in to the pig pens and harassed the pigs more times than I can count. But they finally got to one of the pigs and killed it.

My boss has spoken with the neighbors many many time and nothing has been done to keep the dogs at bay. So in light of his pig dieing, he has asked me to shoot said dogs.

I've read blurbs on Florida law that says "Florida property owners have the right to protect livestock from wild dogs and unleashed pets."

I'm going to keep digging on this, but I also wanted to bounce it of you guys just to get some other minds in the game. Because at the end of the day, I'd like to keep my guns!!

So my feelings on this.

I don't have a problem doing this for him. Don't get me wrong, I'm a dog/cat/fish/bug/*name your pet* lover! I have a small dog myself and I just love her to pieces and I'd hate to even think of someone shooting her. However...My parents live in an area just like my boss and some of the people there have let their dogs run wild. And the do just that, run wild. In packs and they will attack other animals as a pack. Just ask my moms horses.

Anyway, thanks for any input you guys might have. I'll keep you posted on what I find on this stuff.
 
I have shot several of the neighbors dogs, the first on got the cops called when the neighbor asked if I had seen it, and I told him where I buried it. Leo told him to keep better track of his dogs, and I was allowed to protect my property. (in this case, my daughters 4H pig) I live in central florida, about 20 minutes from gainsville
 
I'm not in Florida, but I will hazard a guess that "Protecting livestock" probably means "protecting livestock." That means you don't get to go hunting for the dogs and shoot them where you find them. You have to be watching the livestock, wait for the dogs to attack one of the pigs, and shoot it (or them) during the attack.

Having the attack on video would seem a prudent precaution to support the report of the shooting that should be made to the police. And your boss should report it. After all, his livestock was attacked, and someone else's dog (or dogs) was/were killed by your boss's agent (you!). If your boss doesn't report it, you can be sure the neighbors will.
 
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smoakingun said:
I have shot several of the neighbors dogs, the first on got the cops called when the neighbor asked if I had seen it, and I told him where I buried it. Leo told him to keep better track of his dogs, and I was allowed to protect my property. (in this case, my daughters 4H pig) I live in central florida, about 20 minutes from gainsville
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lol I'm about an hour from you. My boss lives in Webster. So its not too far from you.

And Aguila, I would think thats a safe bet. I know these people are probably sitting in there house watching the whole thing go down and having a great time. My poor boss is your typical nerd. Good guy, just not intimidating in the slightest.

He and his wife already had a plan to fix this little problem so I told him to go ahead and do that. If it doesn't fix it, then I'll be glad to take a ride out there.
 
Maybe if you just buried it and don't tell anyone, who's to say?If not tell your boss to make a police report and get his own gun. You are not the land owner you may catch a lot of heat. The law may not protect you?
 
These type of things never end pretty for anyone involved. Your boss needs to get law enforcement and animal control involved, call them every time he sees the animals on his property. I'm all for shooting them, but you may be opening a bigger can of worms by doing so.

I'd go have one last heart to heart with the neighbor, tell him/her I've had enough, law enforcement has been notified, and I'll take whatever actions I feel necessary to protect my property.

Is their a leash law in the county?

Good luck. People get crazy over pets, particularly dogs for some reason. A good buddy is a college professor, very intelligent and well spoken, but he goes all redneck hillbilly over his dogs. "I ain't locin up mah dawwgs'! He refuses to follow the leash/pen ordinance in his county and believes it to be his neighbors responsibility to keep his dogs out of their yard.
 
If animal control won't do anything, try a full snoutful of bear spray - right into the nostrils - odds are they will never come back - if they do, have your boss shoot them
 
These type of things never end pretty for anyone involved. Your boss needs to get law enforcement and animal control involved, call them every time he sees the animals on his property
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Sound advice. I'd stay out of this one. Killing someone's dog, right or wrong, might get damn ugly. If your boss wants to shoot the dog, it's his business, his land, his pigs; you've got no skin in the game.
 
Yeah, I've been leaning towards the side of not shooting them, because I do know how people go bats*t over dogs.

And for those that wondered why my boss doesn't shot them? lol He doesn't have a gun. I know, Weird. 10+ acres, 4 horses, pile of pigs and a tractor...and no gun.

If it were me, I wouldn't have thought twice about shooting them the next time I saw the. But as it stands, none of this is really any of my business. Like you guys said, I've not no skin in the game...I'd like to keep it that way lol. And to add to it, I have found NOTHING in the statues saying anything one way or the other on this matter.

Thanks for the info guys!
 
Florida Firearms Law said:
page 238. Let's Begin with Chapter 767 of Florida Statutes which discusses dogs. Read it, and you find out that one defense to killing a dog is that the dog was killing or had been killing any domestic animal or livestock. (F.S. 767.03) If you read further in F.S. 828.24, you find out that if you must kill and animal, it must be done by a "humane method". According to another statute, a humane method is any method whereby the animal is rapidly and effectively rendered insensitive to pain, and includes and arrow bolt or gunshot with proper caliber and placement
& Page 239
Now, remember the F.S. 767.03? It said you could kill any dog that was killing, or had been killing another domestic animal or livestock. But, don't take that section literally! Although it certainly applies if you shoot the critter in the act, still you couldn't track the dog to the owners property, and kill it. That would get you in big trouble. Likewise, there's quite a few cases that indicate that once the attack is completed, and the attacking animal is wandering away - you generally don't have a right to kill or injure it because - there are other reasonable alternatives.

Of course, they'll be some exceptions. One exception that is described in various appellate decisions occurs when the same animal has attacked (and killed or seriously injured) your domestic animals more than once, you've been unsuccessful in stopping it by other means, and you've notified the owners who hasn't restrained his critter from further attacks. In those case the courts usually indicate it's a jury question whether shooting the dog/cat/hog - was reasonable and necessary (Sounds a lot like self defense law, doesn't it?)
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That's the relevant section of the above book I could find, hopefully that helps.
 
Your boss lives in webster, Alachua county. I live in clay county, the rules on this sort of thing are not covered by just state statute, they are also covered by counties, you need to check alachua's too. If our boss is not a gun guy, buy him a super soaker, load it with amonia, it will run the dogs off
 
Webster is in Sumter Co. About an hour south of Alachua on the I-75 corridor.

Animal Control in these parts is nearly non-existent. We do have them, but they are scarce and the agency in genaral, is overwhelmed, due to lack of manpower and the fact that we are a poorer and mostly rural county.

The key word in this scenario, is "humane". If you choose to assist your boss, just have your ducks in a row. If an attack is taking place and you are present to witness it, or even better, have it on video, you have not only the right to intervene, but the responsibility to, where your boss' livestock are concerned.

Animal control and even the local HS/SPCA is charged with protecting livestock just the same as domestic animals, and if one is attacking the other, they would intervene as well.


BY the way, is this Ritchie Rich? As in white cavalier Rich?
Either way, welcome to The Firing Line. And good luck with your quandary.

Oh, and Here...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345660&highlight=new+members
 
I was going to say, I think I'd need to be there to see an attack happening. That would be time away from the range. I mean, he and his wife are easy going and can be fun to hangout with...I really don't think I could spend that much time at there place lol.

And to the left handed skater. Nah man, I'm Mickey Mike, with the greed Sport Trac. I'm actually a bit north of Webster...like 45 minutes north lol.
 
Not knowing anything about these parts of the law your side of the pond (I am typing from n-Europe) I may be completely wrong, but I'd go and film the attack of the dogs to the pigs then sue the dog owners for damages.

The wallet is where it hurts more....

K.
 
I'd have no problem shooting the dog, if it was well within the bounds of my property, off-leash and threatening people or livestock. Florida has pretty strict leash laws. If your dog is out and about on other folks' land, most likely the cops will cite you for a violation of the leash law.
 
While I can't guarantee you that you won't have trouble shooting it while it is chasing livestock, I can absolutely guarantee you that will have trouble if you shoot it while off your property. Kind of along the same lines as with humans. If you shoot a person trying to rob you, you are justified. However, if he runs away and you chase him down to shoot him, you're no longer protected under the "stand your ground" law.
 
While I can't guarantee you that you won't have trouble shooting it while it is chasing livestock, I can absolutely guarantee you that will have trouble if you shoot it while off your property. Kind of along the same lines as with humans. If you shoot a person trying to rob you, you are justified. However, if he runs away and you chase him down to shoot him, you're no longer protected under the "stand your ground" law.
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True, but "murder" doesn't apply to animals - you might be responsible for the cost of the dog. In your scenario, however, you would be looking at possible trespassing with firearms if you are on another person's land shooting firearms. When I was 20, I was out "in the woods" plinking with some friends at coke bottles and whatnot. Cop pulled up and said "Boys, put your weapons down and come up here..." He was pretty cool - really liked my friend's Colt Python, and let us go. But, he did explain that what we were doing was criminal - called it trespassing with firearms. I think that law is still on the books.
 
If the OP's employer asks him to come on the property to provide armed security for the animals, it could hardly be construed as any kind of trespass, let alone criminal trespass. Trespass is entering someone else's property without their permission.
 
I think what Skans was meaning, is if I were to chase the dogs and wonder off to someone else's land. From the couple times I've been to my bosses house I'd most likely be shooting from the porch or up by the pen. Depending on which pen the dogs get into.

And kadima is spot on I think. That is if anyone (authorities) would care.
 
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