Observations during my CHL exam

OP--
I guess Austin is as weird as they say. :)

I took my initial in Fort Worth five years ago and took my first recurrent last spring. The training was conducted by a Fort worth detective with ~20 years worth of duty. He brought a bunh of his own pistols and ammo that were available for anyone to use.

Each class had 32 attendees; all ages, races, and genders were well-represented. Including a guy in a wheelchair. Neither time did anyone have any of the difficulties that you mentioned.

Before we started the live-fire portion, one of the three ROs asked each shooter if he/she had experience with the weapon he/she had brought along, and if he/she had any questions. Very professionally run, very safe environment.

No unsafe handling, no junk guns, no ignorance of loading or operations, no inability to hit the target.

I've only been to Austin about three times in the last five years, and based on your experience, I think I'll just pass right on through next time.

When/if you come to the D/FW area, I think you may find our CHL types a cut above. :)

If any of you DFW area types want a referral, pm me.
 
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I survived my CPL course! It was a long (13+ hours) dual course starting with basics and moving on to the CPL portion. Instructors were very experienced. 8 hours of instruction and 4 plus hours of range starting from one round fire and reload exercises to five and six round exercises with reloading. Lots of instruction about muzzle direction. I personally yelled "muzzle "a couple times and was hanging back away from the rookies. There were two complete first timers that never held, fired, or owned a gun of any kind. They had to borrow from the instructors. Much of the attention was spent on them with good reason. There was one dude that I think lied about his experience. There was no way someone would have made those mistakes if they had any. They were correcting him and watching him constantly.

We moved on to the CPL portion and performed 9, 15, and 21ft rapid fire, fire from the hip, and cover fire exercises standing and kneeling. The class stated 150 rounds were needed, but you were required to make the required hits on center of mass so they made you keep doing it until you did. 200 was more appropriate. Some shot more than that. We ended with a few rounds of steel for those with ammo left, more lecture, and finally the test.

I saw one girl load her magazines with the bullets pointing the wrong direction. Another was shooting a new borrowed Glock that jammed, wouldn't go into battery, and doubled fed continuously. The instructor takes it and fires a full mag without stopping, hands it back and the same things start again. She got better near the end of the day.

The best part was a local county prosecutor that gave us the legal requirement. He was pretty cool and definately pro-gun and admitted it. He commended us on taking the legal responsibility of doing the right thing. Lots of examples of do's and even more don'ts, but basically said the onus is on us to make the right decisions to uphold the law.
 
"My goal in addition to passing is to not get shot by someone in the class." -- X_shooter

Don't worry...that'd be 'friendly fire,' which, as everyone knows, isn't as serious as UNfriendly fire. You'll be fine. ;)


"In all fairness, he's right in a great many ways. There is virtually no violent crime in our area." -- peetzakilla

Crime rates are irrelevant: Carrying a gun because of crime is only ONE of the reasons to carry (CC or OC). Don't suffer from tunnelvision like that ADA...


I think disqualifying people for sweeping/not hearing a command is too harsh...unless they were warned about it first yet persisted in their errors.

-- John D.
 
the ADA of the county coming in to spend 15 minutes telling us that our area is not dangerous enough to carry a gun all the time and "You guys aren't going to carry all the time, right?"
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If that ASSistant DA was an elected official, I would have stood up and said, "Sir, your opponent in the next election just gained one very determined supporter." And I would make good on that, too.
 
10 minutes and $25 later, I had my permit. Makes me glad we don't have a training requirement in Alabama.
 
Range commands, ranges, safety....

Range officers should make it a point to give all safety and range commands in a clear, loud voice. ;)
I've been on many ranges/classes with firearms instructors/cadre who are not paying attention or are not clear. All students & instructors/range officers should know & understand the same basic terms or phrases.
Students aren't mind readers and it's not fair to blame them for poor instruction.

A NRA firearms instructor shot a student in my area about 3mo ago because he wasn't careful. He got lax and it caused a accident.

CF
 
If that ASSistant DA was an elected official, I would have stood up and said, "Sir, your opponent in the next election just gained one very determined supporter." And I would make good on that, too.
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It's pretty liberal place. I don't think that carrying a gun is my biggest area of disagreement with the man.;):D
 
ClydeFrog said:
A NRA firearms instructor shot a student in my area about 3mo ago because he wasn't careful.
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Sakes alive! You must have the toughest instructors in the country over there. I bet the rest of the class paid attention after that! :)
 
When I did the range section for mine, they literally had to tell people "we need to count X number of holes in your target - if it's one big hole that's going to give us problems. Spread 'em around." :D
 
That's an interesting experience you had. My CHL class wasn't so eventful. The class drug out and was repetitive, as the instructor tried to fill the hours. The digital fingerprinting machine kept breaking down. There were a few guns that jammed, but those were fixed after a while.

On the firing line, if memory serves, we were instructed when to shoot the singles. Other than the 2 or 3 rapid fires, I don't recall us being able to unload multiple shots in 15 seconds. But, my memory could be wrong there.

I always wear double hearing protection. I have excellent hearing, and I don't intend to lose it due to a hobby. I've always been able to hear instructions and beeps in IDPA matches, though.

Oh, one of the funniest things was seeing a couple leave right after we finished grading our tests. They had the test scores and the general paper work, but they tore out of there before getting their range scores. I'd usually feel bad about seeing someone do that, but they bugged me all through class clicking a pen (the lady) and spitting tobacco into a cup (the guy). I think they got their just desserts for hours of torture.
 
Everybody's experience seems to be different ... I took my test in 2004, six months after I moved to the Austin area after excaping from CA ... the classroom stuff was interesting, I thought, and I enjoyed learning the ins and outs of TX law ... the shooting portion was at an indoor range (Red's in Pfluegerville for those of you in the region) and I did well. My only concern was that the range officer helped a woman who obviously had either bought her gun the day before or borrowed it and literally missed the target with 50 percent of her shots ... the instructor let her shoot twice and with a ton of help, she passed the second time. Not somebody I'd want watching MY back, but maybe she's practiced since then ... my renewal was smooth and easy ...
 
Yes, in my class we had some issues, too.

NONE of our guns were checked to be sure they were unloaded, or even if they were of an approved caliber -- I could have brought my Tokarev to qualify and probably would have shot a better score...and none would be the wiser (except for the fireballs the Tok would put out, which probably THEN would get the instructor's attention to my 'too small a caliber' pistol)!

Some students came with their guns but no ammo for same -- due to the ammo-shortgage situation I guess -- but the instructor had some ammo to sell to those people. Still, I guess their guns were useless for carry or even for use at home with no ammo for them!

Also, the instructor had to help a lady load her magazines, as she didn't know how or couldn't. One lady next to me also started putting the ammo in backwards so I corrected that and helped her load them. Two people shared a gun (a full-size Beretta 92) and so we had to take extra time on the line to allow the 2nd person to shoot, but that was fine. Another lady's gun kept jamming (may have been operator-error) and the instructor loaned her a gun so she could continue. No one failed.

Otherwise -- except for some OLD CHL requirements being taught (not using CURRENT Texas DPS/CHL materials) AND some classroom 'debate' on some of the stuff the instructor was saying (re: ammo choices, carrying in a car, her unwise response to an intruder outside her home, etc.)...we all got through it. But I think she was sure glad to see ME leave at the end of the day. Even though I was NOT tryng to be 'contrary' I think she hates me!

Glad it's over...but will go to someone else for my renewal...except in 2013 I will no longer be living in TX so my current TX CHL will be no good then anyway.

-- John D.
 
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Like Mike, Lenny Magill training video, entry level firearms...

Part of the problem with many of these CCW/armed security, protection classes that have large #s of students with little or no firearms skills is that many go in with the wrong type of handgun/action type/caliber.
In my 2008 armed security class, the K instructor(firearms) packed a Springfield Armory 1911a1 .45acp; condition 1(cocked & locked). Many of the new shooters/entry level students oohed & awwed and babbled about buying a 1911a1 too. I sat quietly and tried to keep my eyes from rolling out of my head, ;). Many new gun owners watch Hollywood movies & TV cop shows and say; "Wow, I can do that too cause I'm super-cool.". Then run out and buy 6" model 29 .44magnums or .50AE Desert Eagles or .454 Ruger Super Redhawks.

Lenny Magill, www.gunvideo.com , produced a great firearms/tactics video about the basics of home protection/self-defense.
The host(who I think was Magill's wife) clearly explained that a simple, well made 4" barrel .38spl/.357magnum DA revolver would be a good choice as a 1st handgun. I've heard that advice before and agree 100% with it.
If I were an NRA instructor or taught a class with entry level/new shooters, I'd have all of them fire range strings on DA only 4" medium(K-L frame) stainless steel .38spl/.357magnum 6 shot revolvers(with .38spl rounds).
Revolvers like the Ruger GP-100, S&W model 67/686, Taurus 66. If the student were ill, disabled or unable to train with a .38spl DA only revolver, I'd use a .22LR DA revolver like a Taurus or S&W kit gun.
Once firearms students learned the basics, then they could move on to semi auto pistols. I would also suggest they carry a DA revolver or better yet a DA only hammer fired pistol for a few years before buying/CCing a single action 1911a1 or Glock/XD/M&P. Common sense & good judgement can't be taught but it should be encouraged or supported.
Clyde F
 
My goal in addition to passing is to not get shot by someone in the class.
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We had to wear bullet-resistant vests when on the firing line.

It has been some time ago, but I took a CHL course offered by the Hamilton, OH police department. It was excellent. Most of the instruction was practical and geared toward creating the right self-defense mindset. This is where I first heard the line, "carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy," and it came from one of their SWAT lieutenants.

He said something like that on an average Saturday night, they're backlogged six calls deep on dispatches. We had to repeat "I am" loudly, many times when asked "Who is responsible for your safety?"

Good advice, too, on situational awareness and tactics.

To bring it back to the range issue, this was my first time on a range that I really, really had the nerves. Even though I was fairly comfortable with the other folks on the range with me (mostly Cincinnati firefighters who had taken advantage of an offer to buy Cincinnati PD S&W turnins for almost nothing), having to put that vest on scared the bejesus out of me. We went onto the range right after having the bleach spot on the carpet pointed out to us where Lt. DeeDeeDee shot himself in the leg a few weeks beforehand when reholstering his pistol.

We shot at no more than 5 yards. I think I put 10 rounds into an 8-inch group with a govt' sized 1911. I was sweating by the time we were done.
 
I spend a bit of time with a friend who is a CCW instructor. He notices a lot of strange situations during the practical exam of shooting. He definitely noticed that the majority of people who have had their guns jam, ftf, fte, etc... Are most often because the gun is brand new and has barely even had 1 box of ammo through it. Some people might disagree, but to think you can buy a gun brand new and have it shoot ANY ammo, accurately, with no issues ever, is totally naive.

Before going for your CCW class, make sure you're taking a gun that you've had to the range and have shot at least 4-5 boxes of ammo through it. Just like a new car needs to break in, so does a gun. Some guns truly don't like a certain brand of ammo or style. (Not the model of the gun, THAT PARTICULAR GUN). I.e. 5 Springfield Armory GI 1911a1 side by side. All can have different preferences. Overall they will perform similarly, but they will each have their own personality. That personality is combined with the shooter's method of shooting; limp wristing, pulling up, etc... These will all affect accuracy and reliability.

So when you go to the range, especially for your CCW, make sure you're not taking a brand new gun out of the box and expecting perfection from it. My buddy said that in his class it is not uncommon for people to come there trying for a CCW with brand new guns; and also that they really have no intention of ever shooting the gun except in a self defense situation. Well, for anyone here like that, (Which is highly unlikely, because those types of people don't visit forums); but also if you're helping someone pick out a gun for defense and you know they'll NEVER shoot the thing except for defensive purposes; DON'T GET A SEMI-AUTO PISTOL!!!! Get a revolver!!!! Break in isn't as much of an issue. Muscle memory isn't an issue. Limp Wristing isn't an issue. etc... If you don't plan on shooting your pistol at least 4-6 times a year, minimum, then get a revolver. And if you buy a new gun, especially a semi-auto, that you are going to use as a carry gun, and getting your CCW with, shoot at LEAST 200-250 rounds through it. Not just the cheapest White Box ammo you can find. 200-250 of cheap FMJ to make sure you know the gun and that the mechanics breaks in, feeding, magazine, etc... Then the other 250 should be different defense ammo to see what your gun likes and what it doesn't. And if you find a brand of ammo that your gun jams on or doesn't feed/eject properly, SO FREAKIN WHAT!!! That doesn't mean the gun sucks. Just that the combination of the GUN, the AMMO, AND YOU!!!!! Are not compatible. Try a different brand. I have a Walter PPK (Very Respected Pistol), and I've shot Corbon (Very Respected Ammo). The Corbon WON'T SHOOT in my gun. I'm talking PHYSICALLY. The bullet hits the rifling of the barrel to soon and the cartridge won't fit properly. If I force it to go into battery, but you WON'T eject that round without 2 hands and the gun between your legs. Yes it would fire OK, but then the next round WON'T seat in battery properly. Point is, there's nothing wrong with my gun. There's nothing wrong with Corbon ammo. These 2 (INDIVIDUAL GUN) doesn't like the corbon. Realize that each gun is individual.

Know these things before you take that brand new gun out of the box and hit the range. It can very well have issues at first. No big deal. Find what it like, and mainly let it break in for at least a 200-300 rounds first. And NEVER TAKE a brand new gun to a CCW class. And if you are going to have the gun ONLY in your nightstand or CC on your body, and never practice with it; at least 4-6 times a year; then don't buy a semi-auto. Buy a revolver.
 
I agree re: taking a brand new gun (or even one you never shot before) to use during a concealed-carry class. Due to my particular circumstances, however, I had to do just that.

Fortunately, the break-in process I do with all my new semi-autos before I ever shoot them proved itself again as my new gun was 100% malfunction free (true, the gun MIGHT have performed 100% without it...but who knows).

The only surprise was it shot slightly LEFT. Usually, my fixed-gun sights were right on...not this time. Still, I was able to engage in some 'damage-control' and keep my shots in the scoring zone. Well, all except a few. :-(

But now I need to buy a sight-adjusting tool...

-- John D.
 
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Took my Ky CCDW with a AMT 380. Fired 11 rounds and asked the RO did I have to shoot the other 10 since all my first 11 were in the 9-10 rings.

He said yes it was a requirement, I picked the hardest one I owned to qualify with. Figured I could qualify with it I would be safe with the others.


Doug
 
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