NYPD cop kills man in taxi

O

othermarc

New member
"...it appeared that the cop's gun accidentally fired once as he and another officer pulled the suspect out of a livery cab by his feet."

Last I heard, the NYPD carries Glocks. How does a Glock "accidentally fire once" without a finger on the trigger? My intent is not bashing the NYPD, but just about how weird that sentence is. Think of it's implications. The cop did not accidentally shoot the suspect; the cop's gun fired once. What? Is this a case of a malfunction in a Glock? I bet there is a 1000 people on this forum that would argue otherwise. They worded the sentence in such a way to imply the gun screwed up, not the cop. This was in Today's Daily News.

The LEO was apparently repentent, and I do believe that it was an accident by him. As a favor to me, please do not use this thread to bash the NYPD as I do not want it to go in that direction.

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Connecticut is the "Constitution" State
http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/beefclub
 
marc-
I haven't heard of the incident. However, Jeff Cooper reminds us that there is no such thing as an "accidental" discharge. The term has been stricken from the vocabulary of most professional trainers in favor of the more accurate descriptor: "Negligent Discharge".
Rich
 
Was the gun still in his holster?
If he had the gun in hand while he and the other cop were pulling the livery guy out, he could have inadvertently pulled the trigger. Sounds to me like extremely poor safety awareness.

Interesting choices of words the article was written with though.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Another prime example of how the media subtely includes their opinion. Now, it's possible the writer actually screwed up their wording. But that seems unlikely in todays gun-bashing climate.

The worst part is that gun-grabbing liberals can use this as an example of how guns are so unsafe. "Why, if a cop can't keep it from going off, how could your average civilian possibly control it?"

Also, I don't think it matters what brand or model. Any firearm used by a PD should be safe. Glock, S&W, H&K, Sig, Beretta ..., all seem to work on the same principle: If you don't pull the trigger, the gun doesn't go off!!! If the officer did indeed have a Glock, I'm surprised the article didn't mention it. For some reason, the media has always loved picking on that gun. "Made of plastic (get's through airport security), No Manual Safety (goes off by itself all the time), Blah blah blah"

LL
 
Didn't Jeff Cooper say something like "If you don't want the piece to fire, don't fire it"?

I love black and white thinking.
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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789


[This message has been edited by deanf (edited September 02, 1999).]
 
I've notice that type of wording from the media on quite a few occasions. "blah blah blah... when the gun discharged."

Makes ya mad, don't it?
 
Because of the incidences of guns going off when handling criminal suspects, I always taught my students when I was the department's firearms & tactics instructor, "Never try to physically control or handle a suspect when you have a pistol in the other hand! Wait for help."

Aside from the danger of having your pistol taken away from you, there is the problem of involuntary muscle contractions in your gun hand when you are grabbing the suspect with the other hand.
 
The article said the man was shot in the side of his torso, killing him instantly. They were pulling him out of the cab by his feet. That makes it seem to me that he must have had his gun drawn. Leaning into a car to pull a guy out by his feet would point a holstered gun away from the guy. My take is that he grabbed the guy by the feet, gun in hand, and BOOM! Definitely a bad move on his part. This was the cops first shooting, he has been on the force 4 yrs. I would agree with DC, most likely poor safety awareness.

I, too, am surprised the reporter did not make an issue of the Glock, if indeed it was a Glock. I do not have much experience with Glocks, but I understand that they are very reliable and "safe" in that they don't go off without pulling the trigger. They are DAO, right? There's no hammer to fall on the primer (I can't remember what Glocks use). Despite all of this, the reporter insinuated the gun failed, not the officer.
 
I pulled up the Daily News website and was prepared to LettertoEd and blast the reporter's slovenly/biased reporting. I changed my mind -- here's the URL -- http://www.mostnewyork.com/1999-09-02/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-39506.asp

The lead sentence changes things -- "After a wild street chase, a cop accidentally shot and killed a man who ran from paying a $23 cab fare in Harlem yesterday, police said.".

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
Better, but still inaccurate.

How about some brutally honest reporting: "A cop's failure to follow basic firearms safety procedures resulted in the death of a non-violent criminal."

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"Taking a long view of history, we may say that
anyone who lays down his arms deserves whatever he gets."
--Jeff Cooper
 
Irregardless of the first sentence, I thought the quote I took is still not right. It may be subtle, and most people won't ever pick up on it, but that is exactly the problem. If read carefully, the second sentence essentially blames an inanimate object on a human mistake.

I didn't mean to imply shotty reporting. Nor was I going to complain to the Daily News. it was just something I noticed this morning when reading a paper. Who knows, maybe the reporter didn't even realize what he was writing. Sorry if I misrepresented the article.

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I hate laws that make me a criminal without me even knowing it.
Connecticut is the "Constitution" State
http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/beefclub
 
Well, Glock fans I do believe the Officer accidently pulled the trigger. However, here in Houston a bank robber was bailing out of a stolen suburban and dropped his model 23 tupperware gun. It discharged when it hit the pavement. And yes, it was caught on tape. The officer's video system in his patrol car captured the incident as it happened. Also used to identify the suspect after he ran into a clothing store and changed clothes.

Joe
 
Ed....

LMAO :) :)
Ever notice that fine humor has the bite of truth to it?

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Weren't all the NYPD Glocks made with the special ultra-heavy trigger pulls demanded by that department? It was my understanding that NYPD made a redesigned trigger group a prerequisite before even considering the Glock purchase.
 
At the risk of being chastized for "Bashing" the NYPD I will add my .02.

The real problem is the pool of people the NYPD draws its recruits from, most have never seen or handled much less shot a firearm prior to entering the academy. A lucky few have had military service where they were introduced to firearms and safety, but most have never been exposed to shooting.

Youngsters who are lucky enough to have parents who shoot or who have somehow slipped through the liberal education system and have actually shot a gun, even if it is a 22cal rifle, have had gun safety drilled into their heads by range personnel or NRA trainers.

Safety is something that has to be reinforced constantly, and I doubt that the PD does this as thoroughly as they should. I speak from experience here, spent some time in Army Reserve units in the NY area and had to deal with safety issues on ranges, with a lot of Police Officers in my unit. Talk to range owners in my area and they all have stories about some of the LEO's.

I know and shoot with a lot of LEO's and they are good people who I trust around me with a firearm. But to a lot of LEO's the gun is just another tool and they have little interest in firearms.

A friend who is an architect was asked to bid on some work on the NYPD range. He has never fired a gun in his life but remarked at the poor gun handling he saw from SOME of the LEO's on the range!

And Rob, before you jump on me, think about some of your fellow recruits and make sure they understand firearms safety, it may be your neck that you save.

You can never have enough safety training.

Geoff Ross (Nomex shorts and fire extinguisher ready!)

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Damn!...I need more practice!
 
Geoff makes a good point...

IIRC Pedro Obregon (Houston) was the mistaken victim of a dynamic cop raid...they busted into his place in the wee hours...got in, Pedro was naked and awakened and one nervous cop accidently fired his gun and the round hit or nearly missed another cop.....so they all unloaded on Pedro. Killed him bigtime....he was innocent.

LEO's....learn damned gun safety!!!!

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
This poor guy in NYC is a real tragedy. Here you have a cop who is obviously the best shot on the force...

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
The reporters were just writing what was told to them (they should know better these days) -- second para -- "Investigators said it appeared that the cop's gun accidentally fired once as he and another officer pulled the suspect out of a livery cab by his feet.".

I tried to find a place to contact the reporters or the editor to ask them to inform those "investigators" that guns don't go off by themselves. However, like some on-line newspapers, they didn't post any "Contact Us" or fax numbers.

As much as I believe in media bias, I think this is just a case of the reporters parroting the Official Line, and, being New Yorkers, didn't know enough about guns to question the investigators' statement. I was a tramp printer back in the 50s-60s and knew a lot of "investigate everything" reporters. Journalism has since deteriorated, along with everything else.



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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
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