NY Cops Part 2

[Homerboy]

I said it in the last link. There is far more to the 50 bullets shooting in Queens. I said there was a fourth guy who ran. Now the cops have found the fourth guy. The MUTTS in the car denied there being a fourth guy, but the MUTT who was collared has admitted it, and even his lawyer has conceded he was there. What's the lawyer's argument? "so what if he was there? They still have no gun". Gee, you think he might have gotten rid of it in the 6 DAYS since the shooting? I'll bet they do find it, because most of these MUTTS are so stupid they stash it someplace instead of tossing it in the river. Somebody will get an upgrade from the cheese sandwich to a bologna sandwich at central booking and spill it. Here's the link:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12022006/news/regionalnews/4th_man_had_gun_regionalnews_murray_weiss.htm

 

[ATW525]

Interesting. Apparantly witnesses also saw the UC identify himself with his badge, and they saw him fall twice while trying to escape being hit by the deceased's vehicle before he opened fire. It's starting to sound a bit more favorable for the police officers.

 

[Glockamolie]

WOW! So you mean the "suspects" may have actually been...LYING? What is the world coming to? For everyone that was ready to hang the cops, you might want to lay the noose aside for a minute until all the evidence is in.

 

[Homerboy]

Come on, where are you JuanCarlos? Where are you Camp David? What do you have to say now? I'll go further on this one:

Spent shell casings were found in the car. When the gun is found, it will match the shell casing found, meaning the cops were fired upon.

 

[mete]

The '4th man ' comments were there from the beginning but were ignored in all the BS. Those kinds of guns do tend to disappear ! BTW if you ever shoot an armed BG make sure you secure the gun otherwise it will disappear too.

 

[Homerboy]

The fourth man comments were there from the beginning, but they were dismissed by the anti-cop posters on this thread, like Musketeer, who sayid 'NY cops are notorious for firing till slide lock". Nothing is further from the truth. Since I was a NY cop and still support them, I read every story about police shootings in NY. It is EXTREMELY rare for a cop to empty his gun. I can think of maybe three in the last few years.

They were also ignored becuase the media chose to give credence to Fat Al Sharpton and Charles Black Panther Barron. These two buffoons were chosen by their people to represent them. Funny how neither one of them seems to care that blacks are killing each other every night, or that the murderer of two undercover BLACK police officers murdered in the line of duty by a black perp while trying to rid the housing projects of illegal guns was on trial the same day they staged yet another racist rabble rousing rally. They never visited the dead officers families. They never publicly condemned the slaughter of two UNARMED police officers by this mutt, and then Mayor Bloomberg caves in to these cretins and stands with them, while denouncing the actions of these 5 brave cops with thousands of arrests to their records, and not one shooting among them in their careers. And then we have the no nothing Monday Morning Quarterbacks on this board who think they have the experience to second guess them, while they choose to believe the word of three career felons over these cops.

 

[12-34hom]

Homerboy, welcome to TFL.

I've tried to explain that each officers actions should be judged individually - in whatever incident or actions taken. Some here will never do so, the fostering of the "Us vs.Them" mentality is the overriding thought process. They are quick to jump to conclusions, [just don't muddie that story with the facts or truth].

The poster who pointed out that the answer lies between the two extremes views is right on track.

12-34hom.

 

[209]

Allegedly, the gun has also been recovered. Funny thing, the shell cases found in the SUV are said to match the handgun, which "had the serial number removed". Gee, I guess that puts a gun in the car.

Of course, you just know the "Sharpies" will say the cops planted all of that, because the people that got shot were "just good guys who were gunned down".

And the media had a "heart-tugging" story about how protesters led by Al met at the "nightclub" where the incident occurred. Funny thing, I never knew strip clubs were nightclubs. But, calling the establishment what it is wouldn't put the "good guys" in a favorable light, so the wording of the article is changed to suit. And, of course, the media is highly unlucky to change the story to show the officers probably had reason to shoot. At times, the media makes me want to puke. So do the anti-LEO people that automatically judge an incident before they know the whole story.

 

[Trip20]

...the fostering of the "Us vs.Them" mentality...

Homerboy is also responsible for helping foster this mentallity. I tried to bring an example of this to Homerboy's attention when he compared Navy SEALs to cops, and he swiftly ignored my question from the NY Cops Part 1 thread.

That kind of comment plays into this stuff. TheBluesMan made a good comment in that thread: "It's about leadership and tactics, and the intention behind the use of these tactics. It's not about tools." I can only add to that comment by saying it's also about mindset on the officer level.

Now, do I think Homerboy stands in the middle of the mall, looks around at the people and thinks of them with the same disregard as a deployed soldier in a foreign nation? -- Heck no. I'm sure he's a good man who's just sick of the irresponsible comments about law enforcement officers in general.

But I do suspect the line is being blurred between domestic law enforcement and the military, and that comments such as his help bolster that opinion.

 

[Homerboy]

I don't buy into the "us vs. them" mentality when a cop is obviously in the wrong. I do have a problem with the people who have absolutely no clue as to what a cop goes through making judgements based on a biased newspaper article. Take a ride through some of these inner city neighborhoods, which are populated with good people as well as the bad. Listen to the shots going off as you travel through. And remember the good people who aren't perps will not stand up for you when something like this happens. Are all residents of these areas bad people? Nope. But they are rarely on your side. When they are, it's a welcome breath of fresh air.

I said it from the first post. NYPD cops are the most restrained police in the country. When something like this happens, the armchair warriors come out and say how they would do things differently. Walk a mile in a cop's shoes and then judge him. And the soldier vs. cop analogy is not far off. JuanCarlos says he spent a year in Iraq. Thank you for your service, Juan. Assuming you weren't a cook or getting the General's coffee, how would you respond if you're standing at a roadblock and a car accelerates towards you? Does it matter what the intent of the driver is coming at you? He's going to flatten you either way, so you light him up. No difference here.

 

[Homerboy]

And calling the Club Kalua a "strip club" is hardly accurate. I worked in that unit years ago, and I have been inside that very club. It is nothign more than a whorehouse. Spend exactly thirty seconds in there and you're being propositioned. Guns and drugs go in and out of that place like popcorn from a concession stand at a movie. The "patrons" are mostly low-lifes with extensive criminal histories.

 

[JuanCarlos]

how would you respond if you're standing at a roadblock and a car accelerates towards you? Does it matter what the intent of the driver is coming at you? He's going to flatten you either way, so you light him up. No difference here.

Well, if a car sped towards a roadblock I was manning, of course I'd take out the driver. Then again, VBIEDs are more common in Iraq then New York...if we were just talking about a car, accelerating from a stop, I'd think "getting out of the way" would be step one, followed by perhaps restrained fire. Innocent bystanders and all.

That, or I'd let my .50 gunner put a few in the engine.

Allegedly, the gun has also been recovered. Funny thing, the shell cases found in the SUV are said to match the handgun, which "had the serial number removed". Gee, I guess that puts a gun in the car.

Link? And no, if this ends up being the case I'd probably give the PD benefit of the doubt and say it's likely the gun actually came from the car.

The poster who pointed out that the answer lies between the two extremes views is right on track.

Hard to argue with this. I will say that as more details like this come out my opinion on the matter definitely starts to shift. I'd like to see a few more sources backing this up (not a huge fan of the NY Post), but still I'll say this might look a little more "complicated" than it did originally.

And then we have the no nothing Monday Morning Quarterbacks on this board who think they have the experience to second guess them, while they choose to believe the word of three career felons over these cops.

It isn't about believing one word over another, it's about failing to take either side's word unconditionally. I'd never say "hey, those ex-cons are obviously more trustworthy than cops." I just would not say that cops are guaranteed to be telling the truth just because they are cops.

As far as second-guessing before the evidence comes in, without a public willing to question the actions of police there'd be no end to what the few bad cops out there could get away with. Yes, it means from time to time I'll be wrong. I'm okay with that. But police officers need to understand that by taking on what really is a position of power over the "common man," they are holding themselves up to a high level of public scrutiny. And once again my answer is that if you don't like this, a career in sales might fit you better.

I still say their use of firearms in this case was, at best, a bit irresponsible.

Also, I think I explained why I feel the term "Monday Morning Quarterback" in ludicrous in this situation.

Lastly,

Come on, where are you JuanCarlos? Where are you Camp David?

Um...working? I'd say the case is still a little way from being settled...no rush here.

 

[gc70]

The MUTTS in the car denied there being a fourth guy, but the MUTT who was collared has admitted it, and even his lawyer has conceded he was there.

The only thing that the fourth guy has admitted is that he was in the parking lot. If I remember the original news stories correctly, there were probably a half dozen or more other people in the parking lot.

Like most similar incidents, it will take a while for the details of this story to come out and form a clear picture of what happened.

 

[mvpel]

And calling the Club Kalua a "strip club" is hardly accurate. I worked in that unit years ago, and I have been inside that very club. It is nothign more than a whorehouse. Spend exactly thirty seconds in there and you're being propositioned. Guns and drugs go in and out of that place like popcorn from a concession stand at a movie. The "patrons" are mostly low-lifes with extensive criminal histories.

So, again I ask, WTF is this establishment still in business? Businesses and corporations exist only at the pleasure of the state, county, and city licensing authorities. Surely if it's so obvious within 30 seconds that this business is a pox on the city, officials would have no trouble pulling its licenses and shutting it down, yes?

And why are low-lifes with extensive criminal histories still free to go to such dives? I assume they're not out on furlough from the prisons, so the only reasonable conclusion is that they either never went there or were released to make room for the potheads caught with a quarter ounce of weed or some such so that the DAs can keep their "numbers" up.

 

[Homerboy]

Why is this place still in business? Becasue there are THOSANDS of these places open in NY City. The process of shutting one down is enormous, and when you do finally get to put a padlock on the place, the owner opens up another one a block away. New York City is not Mayberry.

Why are the mutts out of prison? You tell me. The one guy shot 11 times has been arrested 11 times (not counting juvenile sealed arrests). Overcrowded prisons and ADA's who routinely plea down felony arrests to misdemeanors to satisfy their conviction quota they have to satisfy, and racial rabble rousers who campaign on the behalf of the mutts who were "misunderstood".

You want me to agree the criminal justice system is flawed? OK, I will. These three mutts should have been taken out back and shot long ago. None of them held a job, they've been nothing but burdens to the rest of society.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the actions of the cops that night. Their lives were in danger. They responded with deadly force, the good guys are OK, one of the mutts is gone, and the other three of them will take a payout to go away. Then they'll continue to be leeches on society until the bullet with their name on it out there finds them. I can only hope it happens sooner rather than later.

 

[mvpel]

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the actions of the cops that night. Their lives were in danger. They responded with deadly force, the good guys are OK, one of the mutts is gone, and the other three of them will take a payout to go away. Then they'll continue to be leeches on society until the bullet with their name on it out there finds them. I can only hope it happens sooner rather than later.

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I'm sure it's just as frustrating to you to see multiple violent crimes on the record of someone you've just hooked up, or yet another a few months later, as it is to me. I'd love it if cops and other concerned citizens could work together to address the problems that lead to these degenerate and all-too-often deadly results.

 

[shaggy]

Why are the mutts out of prison? You tell me. The one guy shot 11 times has been arrested 11 times (not counting juvenile sealed arrests).

Arrested.

And how many times was he convicted?

 

[mvpel]

If he was convicted any less than 11 times, that just points to yet another problem with the criminal justice system.

Why is this place still in business? Becasue there are THOSANDS of these places open in NY City. The process of shutting one down is enormous, and when you do finally get to put a padlock on the place, the owner opens up another one a block away. New York City is not Mayberry.

If the undercover officers would quit going after dime bags and johns and would instead conduct an thorough investigation of the owner for a violation of 230.25, third degree advancing of prostitution, to wit, knowingly:

Advanc[ing] or profit[ing] from prostitution by managing, supervising, controlling or owning, either alone or in association with others, a house of prostitution or a prostitution business or enterprise involving prostitution activity by two or more prostitutes;

... and make the charge stick, it's a class D felony, and the court can impose up to seven years in prison under 70.00-2(d). Hard to open a new business while pulling a hitch in Rikers.

Even if you have to release thousands of dime-baggers and johns from prison to make room for the owners of these joints, wouldn't that be a net benefit?

Why should the process be any more enormous than shooting a habitual criminal and his cohorts 50 times in order to save your own life?

 

[Homerboy]

I don't know how many times he was convicted. Does it make a difference? In spite of what the cop bashers on this thread belive, when a cop puts handcuffs on someone, 99.9% of the time they did the crime. The guy in question just served several years. He was no innocent. OJ Simpson wasn't convicted, either. Would you be happy if your daughter started dating him?

mvpel,

You seem to be overly concerned with low level drug offenses. That's the second time you've brought it up. Like it or not, drugs are illegal and possessing them can get you arrested. It's a numbers game. The DA's need a certain amount of drug arrests. The cops have a quota to meet. Don't carry dime bags if you don't want to go through the system. (Not saying you have. I think the drug war is useless, but it's not going away)

 

[mvpel]

I'm concerned less with low-level drug offenses than I am with a system that's groaning and cracking under the weight of prohibition, where the 99.99% hookup-to-guilty ratio you talk about is converted into a 99% skate ratio by the DA's and their prohibition-driven numbers games.

The Drug War is worse than just useless, its letting convicted armed robbers go to strip joints and attack cops with their cars in order to make room to shuffle dime-baggers through the system. You should check out http://www.leap.cc/