NSA "spying" on Americans: Another Demosocialist witch hunt

As I've said before, I will chuckle heartily when the selfsame "Conservatives" who now defend this kind of stuff find out that the tools for the destruction of their favorite liberties were left in the toolshed at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue when the next "Demosocialist" moves in.
 
I seem to recall a few years back that the liberals were going on about the "intelligence failures" that led to the 9/11 attacks, how they should have been prevented in the first nine months of the Bush presidency.

But now that this "intelligence failure" has been remedied, it's another excuse to attack the prosecution of this fight against killers of innocent Americans.

Suppose the Brooklyn Bridge had been successfully blown because one of the plotters was a US citizen and instead of treating him as an agent of an enemy foreign power in wartime, they'd treated him like a criminal suspect, and the NSA, CIA, and military had to be completely hands-off with no information interchange because of Clintonista Gorelick's "wall?"

Would we be carrying on about the definition of the word "reasonable" in the Fourth Amendment instead, I wonder, as hundreds of bodies rotted in the river amid the twisted beams?
 
I seem to recall a few years back that the liberals were going on about the "intelligence failures" that led to the 9/11 attacks, how they should have been prevented in the first nine months of the Bush presidency.

But now that this "intelligence failure" has been remedied, it's another excuse to attack the prosecution of this fight against killers of innocent Americans

only liberals were upset after 9/11 huh? you think that there were no intelligence failures?

our intelligence failures have been remedied?

man where are you getting this stuff?
 
As I've said before, I will chuckle heartily when the selfsame "Conservatives" who now defend this kind of stuff find out that the tools for the destruction of their favorite liberties were left in the toolshed at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue when the next "Demosocialist" moves in.

-Marko Kloos

My thoughts exactly.
 
If it would save one life, all e-mails and phone conversations should be fed into NSA computers to check for coded messages or even ones in the clear. While most messages are harmless - How do we know who is a sleeper?

If it would save one life, all guns should be banned. While most gun owners are law abidinhg - do you want another Columbine?
 
Unfortunately for me most of my opinions are driven by common sense. The NSA has been spying on American citizens for over 25 years through the use of Echelon. If you call someone within the continental US and mention certain strings of keywords then your call could be recorded and flagged for follow-up by a human within the next 1-2 weeks. Knowing this, the recent stories surrounding NSA spying are old news, and only intended to hurt the administration.

That's fine with me though, I'm a free-thinking republican and I don't like Bush and Co. Frankly, listening to his speeches insults my intelligence, and I don't understand the blind loyalty shown by many republicans who can't think for themselves.
 
I'm seeing what I refer to as the "Trapshooter Mentality."

You know the one...

The guys driving BMWs or Hummers at the gun clubs, strutting around in their Orvis clothes, toting their $10,000 trap guns...

The ones who, moments after returning from the firing line, launch into a diatribe about how evil guns are.

They're certain that anti-gun laws will never affect them because their shotguns aren't guns, they're sporting implements of the upper class...

If it doesn't affect me, I'm all for it...

Benjamin Franklin warned us about that kind of mindset.
 
mvpel and others.
I respect your right to opinion, but I'm gonna ask you a simple question and I'd like to see it answered directly, without rhetoric or "what if"s. OK?

Here's the deal, and bear with me for a second, because this is not at all out of the realm of possibility, given what we know so far:

Point:
The PATRIOT Act, crafted by a Republican Admin (I voted for GW, too) specifically took up the issue of this activity being directed against US Citizens...the language failed to pass muster in a Republican Senate (I voted for them, too)

Point:
If what has been reported (and undenied by the White House) has occured, it may well carry with it a 5 Year Prison sentence for violation of FISA law.

If that turns out to be the case, will you each stand by positions which appear to be, "Whatever it takes" and "Well it's been going on a long time"?

What I'm asking is this:
If the current Administration is found to have seriously violated 4th Amendment guarantees, even after they were so watered down by PATRIOT, will you still argue that those who broke the law should receive a pass?
Rich
 
mvpel said:
We have agents of enemy foreign powers operating on our soil,
Care to name those Foreign Powers? With whom are we at war? Name them.
mvpel said:
...I don't believe that a failure to do so in wielding Article II War Powers by the executive under the aegis of Congressional authorization represents a "high crime or misdemeanor."
Even if the resultant crime is a felony? Interesting.

We are at war with an idea. That idea has a name: Terrorism. It is a specific type of terrorism in that it is religious based. It is, in short, a war that can never be won. There is no single country we can attack. There is no single political ideal that can be countered. The moderates of this religion are in fear. They fear speaking out, because they fear their own fellows, more than they fear repercussions of the country wherein they reside.

It seems as if the majority of Americans are more than willing to give up some essential Liberties for the hope of some supposed safety.

May I remind everyone that despite any gains that might have been realized in this fight against terrorism, the borders remain unsecured!! The simplest of measures to insure national and regional safety, have been left to political expediency, WRT our borders.
 
the NSA has been monitoring electronic communications for years, under many different Presidents and Congresses. Anyone with the right equipment can do similar monitoring. If a communication is detected that possibly requires action, that is when the court comes into play. The only reason this is now an issue is because it suits the purpose of the liberal, socialist, traitorous Democrat Party. And that purpose is to discredit a President who vowed to do everything in his power to prevent another 9/11.

I agree totally with this statement and will add if the media, liberal, socialist and traitorous Democrat Party viewed the second amendment with the same mindset it would be mandatory for everyone to own a firearm in this country.

kenny b
 
Antipitas said:
Even if the resultant crime is a felony? Interesting.
The US Congress is a separate, co-equal branch to the Executive, not a superior branch. As a Federal Court opined:

"The Truong court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the president did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. ... We take for granted that the president does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the president's constitutional power."
Just as the Executive Branch does not have the authority to write legislation, the Legislative Branch does not have the authority to criminalize the exercise of Executive Power in the realm of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States.

Antipitas said:
We are at war with an idea. That idea has a name: Terrorism. It is a specific type of terrorism in that it is religious based. It is, in short, a war that can never be won. There is no single country we can attack. There is no single political ideal that can be countered. The moderates of this religion are in fear. They fear speaking out, because they fear their own fellows, more than they fear repercussions of the country wherein they reside.
That "idea" slaughtered thousands of innocent people in New York, DC, and Pennsylvania, and many more around the world during the years in which this nation was treating such attacks as merely individualized criminal matters outside the purview of the military intelligence establishment, instead of treating them as an organized, concerted, well-financed war waged by foreign powers against our nation.

One often hears about the idea of "fighting the last war" - that seems to be exactly what you're doing here by pointing out that there's no single country we can attack.

So what if there's not? We are attacking the ringleaders, their finance networks, their communications, and their covert operatives here in the US instead of making the "last war" mistake yet again, and the result has been the steady stamping out of al-Qaeda and related terrorist groups and their state sponsors, the emergence of pluralistic government in former terrorist strongholds, and a complete absence of attacks on US soil.

Antipitas said:
It seems as if the majority of Americans are more than willing to give up some essential Liberties for the hope of some supposed safety.
Is the fact that the Brooklyn Bridge is still standing "supposed?"

Does an enemy agent covertly operating in the US, plotting a major attack, have an "essential liberty" of entirely secret communications with his handlers and financiers overseas?
 
Ann is an idiot
.

+1. That column proves she's a hack like limbaugh. Anyone who claims with a straight face that "we are at war" is either an idiot, or deceiving us. Besides, hasn't she heard? It's no longer a 'War on Terror' ; it's a 'global struggle against extremism'. So the exigent circumstance of war no longer exists to justify otherwise-unconstitutional measures.
 
You mean, he could be more popular than the outstanding 41% he has now, with 15% more people disapproving than approving? Wow, maybe he could get to where only 10% more people disapprove rather than approve of his performance.

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

Maybe when people realize it's not so far fetched as being your neighbor thats targeted you might see everything from a different view point.

Ain't that the truth. When people finally start realizing that it can be their own innocent neighbor that's unfairly targeted, they will see things differently and opppose unconstitutional, warrantless taps and document subpoena'ing.

That "idea" slaughtered thousands of innocent people in New York, DC, and Pennsylvania,

No, it most certainly did not. It was not an idea that killed those people. It was people who killed them. Specifically, Al-quaida operatives. You can't win a war on terror. You MIGHT be able to win a war on the organized group al-quiada. And we should have. But Shrub didn't. He chose to instead go for the power-grab by making up the incredible farce known as the 'war on terror', which cannot be won, and thus will never end. The only certain result will be a police state. In addition to likely results, such as even more terrorism than without the so-called war.
 
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