NSA "spying" on Americans: Another Demosocialist witch hunt

progunner1957

Moderator
Ann Coulter weighs in on the NSA spying "scandal," another Demosocialist witch hunt, the real motivation of which is to cause damage to Bush in particular and the Republicans in general.


Live and Let Spy
by Ann Coulter
Posted Dec 21, 2005

Apart from the day the New York Times goes out of business -- and the stellar work Paul Krugman's column does twice a week helping people house-train their puppies -- the newspaper has done the greatest thing it will ever do in its entire existence. (Calm down: No, the Times didn't hold an intervention for Frank Rich.)

Monday's Times carried a major expose on child molesters who use the Internet to lure their adolescent prey into performing sex acts for Webcams. In the course of investigating the story, reporter Kurt Eichenwald broke open a massive network of pedophiles, rescued a young man who had been abused for years, and led the Department of Justice to hundreds of child molesters.

I kept waiting for the catch, but apparently the Times does not yet believe pedophilia is covered by the "privacy right." They should stop covering politics and start covering more stories like this.

In order to report the story, the Times said it obtained:

-- Copies of online conversations and e-mail messages between minors and the creepy adults;

-- Records of payments to the minors;

-- Membership lists for Webcam sites;

-- Defunct sites stored in online archives;

-- Files retained on a victim's computer over several years;

-- Financial records, credit card processing data and other information;

-- The Neverland Ranch's mailing list. (OK, I made that last one up.)

Would that the Times allowed the Bush administration similar investigative powers for Islamofacists in America!

Which brings me to this week's scandal about No Such Agency spying on "Americans." I have difficulty ginning up much interest in this story inasmuch as I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East, and sending liberals to Guantanamo.

But if we must engage in a national debate on half-measures: After 9/11, any president who was not spying on people calling phone numbers associated with terrorists should be impeached for being an inept commander in chief.

With a huge gaping hole in lower Manhattan, I'm not sure why we have to keep reminding people, but we are at war. (Perhaps it's because of the media blackout on images of the 9/11 attack. We're not allowed to see those because seeing planes plowing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon might make us feel angry and jingoistic.)

Among the things that war entails are: killing people (sometimes innocent), destroying buildings (sometimes innocent) and spying on people (sometimes innocent).

That is why war is a bad thing. But once a war starts, it is going to be finished one way or another, and I have a preference for it coming out one way rather than the other.

In previous wars, the country has done far worse than monitor telephone calls placed to jihad headquarters. FDR rounded up Japanese -- many of them loyal American citizens -- and threw them in internment camps. Most appallingly, at the same time, he let New York Times editors wander free.

Note the following about the Japanese internment:

1) The Supreme Court upheld the president's authority to intern the Japanese during wartime;

2) That case, Korematsu v. United States, is still good law;

3) There are no Japanese internment camps today. (Although the no-limit blackjack section at Caesar's Palace on a Saturday night comes pretty close.)

It's one or the other: Either we take the politically correct, scattershot approach and violate everyone's civil liberties, or we focus on the group threatening us and -- in the worst-case scenario -- run the risk of briefly violating the civil liberties of 1,000 people in a country of 300 million.

Of course, this is assuming I'm talking to people from the world of the normal. In the Democrats' world, there are two more options. Violate no one's civil liberties and get used to a lot more 9/11s, or the modified third option, preferred by Sen. John D. Rockefeller: Let the president do all the work and take all the heat for preventing another terrorist attack while you place a letter expressing your objections in a file cabinet as a small parchment tribute to your exquisite conscience.
 
Ann is an idiot. The 'All Hail the Leader' mentality over maintaining civil liberties is a greater long term threat to the nation than terrorists.

There is a split that marks two kinds of conservatives - those who respect constitutional protections of liberty and those who have a fascistic personality set - oh, if only the trains would run on time and those who disagree with leaders would be arrested.

Which kind of conservative are you? The 2nd Amend is defend liberty unless you disagree with the Leader?

Our great leader, for whom we must not disagree in the editorial pages of the NYT Times, happily entertains the Saudi princes on his 'ranch'. Where did most of the terrorists come from and now are Saudis going to Iraq to help us?

Bah - she is a tool.
 
Bah - she is a tool.

Don't hold back Glenn, tell us how you really feel :D

This is one of those "what to do, what to do" type issues.

We all want to stop an attack from happening but at the same time, we want to be free in our privacy.

So in order to be Free, then the law must be met which is a court order for wiretapping/spying on US Citizens.

Yet if you find information out that is time critical and there may, or may not be enough time to get a Judge to sign off, what do you do?

Me, I'm single so I can take my chances unless it also affects my Mom/Grandma. Yet others have kids, wives, etcc.. People that they want to protect even with their lives.

So, to me it's in the White. White = against the Bill of Rights (illegal). Black = Not against the Bill of Rights (legal). Gray = Those with kids/wives (illegal but are willing to overlook for security, maybe, maybe not).

Wayne
 
I don't get the title of this thread...are you saying that the spying on Americans was a ploy by the Democrats or are you trying to claim that exposing the spying of Americans is just another Democrat ploy to push for socialism?
 
More proof that Ann Coutler is a bigot

I have difficulty ginning up much interest in this story inasmuch as I think the government should be spying on all Arabs

The woman is lost & without a clue about anything yet she runs her mouth as a "conservative" attempting to protect the morals of the country. What an A$$ she is.

Note to Ms. Coulter: A conservative is someone who want to preserve the way of life in our country, protect our rights and liberties, and prevent the degradation of our society. You are not. [/note]

The current ideology of "conservatism" is to change the way things are, take away our rights and liberties in the name of safety, and degrade our constitution and laws through legislated morality.

Today's conseravtives loudly trumpet their view that the constitution should be upheld. However, these SAME conservatives just approved an extension of the Patriot Act which, essentially, strips the American citizenry of their Constitutional and enumerated rights. How anyone can believe that doing such is attempting to uphold the constitution is beyond me.

I would suggest that the next time someone uses Ann Coutler as proof of anything except idiocy you laugh long and loudly as you walk away.
 
Just my opinion, but the same folks b*&^%ing about this are the same ones who would be crying that not enough was done after an attack.
 
Don-
I don't remember any of "these folks" crying after 9-11 that not enough was done.
High marks for emotionalism; Failing grade in reality grounding.
Rich
 
Let me clarify that remark since after I read it I can see the confusion.

My remark was not pointed at a particular person, but was general in nature. To the liberal/libertarian as a whole. I know not everyone agrees on everything, but I stand by my remarks of not having a problem with it as long as it's being used as it's being told. Sorry but if you think you can have a free, stable, crime free, safe society with no intrusions from the govt you need to put the crack pipe down, step away from the still and sober up. This isn't the same USA as 200 years ago.
 
This isn't the same USA as 200 years ago

Last time I re-read the Constitution it sure was.

The problem is that the PEOPLE of today aren't the same as those of 200 yrs ago. Today, people are out to grab all the pie for themselves and THWith everyone else. Plausible deniability and all that jazz.

The view that it's OK as long as "it's" (apparently a reference to the NSA spying debacle) being used to trample on the Constitutional rights of everyone seems odd to me. Combine that with the reference to an America that isn't the same as it was when founded sort of points out that AMERICA hasn't changed - the Policiticans have.
 
I have difficulty ginning up much interest in this story inasmuch as I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East, and sending liberals to Guantanamo.

Ann Coulter is not a Conservative, she's a Nazi cow.

The fact that she not only defends the Japanese internment camps, but uses them as an example of why Arab internment camps would pass Constitutional muster just shows how far off the rocker she really is. The Nisei were Americans of Japanese descent, citizens like any non-yellow skinned American. She should look up the history of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team...or better yet, one of the surviving 442nd vets ought to tell her, and then dare her to repeat that crap to his octogenarian face. Maybe Senator Daniel Inouye, Medal of Honor, would be glad to take the job.

Whoops...I forgot, Dan Inouye is a "demosocialist", and he'd be in Gitmo if she had her way...despite his Medal of Honor and the arm he left on the battlefield to defend Ms. Coulter's right to run her stupid mouth.

:barf:
 
Bush: Not the "Little Hitler" the Demosocialists claim he is

The "NSA spying debacle":barf: :barf: as I understand it is as follows:

Bush authorized the NSA to monitor phone calls on selected individuals in the USA who were:
1 - Calling individuals outside the USA that are known to be Al-Qaeda operatives, or
2 - Al-Qaueda associates, or
3 - Suppliers of materiel, or
4 - Safe house providers, or
5- Other foreign nationals operating outside the USA who are giving aid to Al-Quaeda.

How did Bush know the individuals the NSA was monitoring were involved with Al-Qaeda? Because the phone numbers in question were obtained from a computer that was confiscated from Abu Musab al-Zarkawi when he was captured.

Of course, none of these facts were made known by the Demosocialist news outlets whose commitment is not to reporting the facts - all the facts, but is to damaging the Bush administration any way they can in order to assist in returning the Democratic party to power in the House and Senate in the 2006 elections.

Bus did not authorize the NSA to "spy" on your Mother, your Grandmother, your third grade daughter, your 10 year old son, his teacher or the guy who runs the local bakery. The NSA was authorized to monitor persons within the USA who were known to be in contact with Al-Qaeda terrorists outside the USA, plain and simple.

As Ann Coulter said -
But if we must engage in a national debate on half-measures: After 9/11, any president who was not spying on people calling phone numbers associated with terrorists should be impeached for being an inept commander in chief.
I'll go along with her on that, some of her other observations and comments notwithstanding.
 
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Except that that's not what he said. Furthermore, I don't give a swut if you have ObL's portrait as your home's wallpaper and a Quran in the latrine, THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS A BLOODY WARRANT TO SEARCH YOU. PERIOD.

I love it, I really do... I wonder how loudly you'll be screaming when it's YOU being accused of association with Them Damn Dirty Terr'ist Greaseball Ayrabs, held without access to counsel for three years, slammed into Gitmo on absolutely NO evidence, and having your life destroyed because some NSA pissant got a social security number wrong by one digit.
 
Call me "Milton"

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS A BLOODY WARRANT TO SEARCH YOU. PERIOD.
Bush is saying, "Not in a time of war." He is saying that the phone monitoring was within the law and within the Constitutional boundaries per his responsibilities as Commander In Chief of the U.S. military duting a time of war.

I am not a Constitutional law attorney - or any kind of attorney, for that matter - and I do not know all the laws pertaining to this incident and whether or not those laws are Constitutionally valid to begin with.

Therefore, I am not saying what Bush is claiming automatically squares with the Constitution. That is better left to the Supreme Court to decide.

If Bush is just making this stuff up as he goes along, he will get caught at it and look foolish - or worse - in the process. One question: Don't you all think he knows this? Why would he do something that he knows is going to be thrown back in his face??

As far as getting a warrant for each and every phone call - come on. These phone calls last minutes. It takes days or weeks to get a warrant - after all, "The Government" loves paperwork, but it is not prompt in doing its paperwork.

So do we let crucial information relevant to saving American lives, possibly by the hundreds or thousands, evaporate before our eyes because the request form for a wiretap is at the bottom of a pile in some law clerk's "IN" box??

Does that make any sense?? How would you like to engrave on your father's gravestone, "He gave his life that the government's paperwork might prevail?" As for me - no, thanks.
Spying on people calling phone numbers associated with terrorists
If that's a crime, we need to get our priorities straight, period.

I'll stick it out by making the following statement:
Terrorists and those who aid them have no rights other than the right to be killed without mercy as soon as is humanly possible. Hunt them down and kill them - burn them alive - every last freaking one of them.

If that makes me a monster, then call me "Milton.":D :D
(Youngsters, ask your Dad about Milton the Monster).
 
Bush is saying, "Not in a time of war." He is saying that the phone monitoring was within the law and within the Constitutional boundaries per his responsibilities as Commander In Chief of the U.S. military duting a time of war.

We will never be Not At War again. Ever. There will always be a terrorist threat out there, even when and if OBL and Al-Zarqawi's heads rest on pikes in front of the Pentagon. If you grant the government the right to throw out the need for search warrants "in time of war", the government will make damn sure that the war goes on in perpetuity.
 
Again, I must ask -
So do we let crucial information relevant to saving American lives, possibly by the hundreds or thousands, evaporate before our eyes because the request form for a wiretap is at the bottom of a pile in some law clerk's "IN" box??

Does that make any sense?? How would you like to engrave on your father's gravestone, "He gave his life that the government's paperwork might prevail?" As for me - no, thanks.
 
Anyone remember the ULTRA project in WW-II, which was intercepting and decoding German Enigma messages?

How about Purple, decoding the Japanese Navy's code system?

Monitoring phone calls to terrorists? Boo-friggin'-hoo.
 
Ya gotta hand it to Bush...

At least he has the Cajones (unlike Dems) to say (I forgot what/where/when...It was on NPR):

"Given the choice between making a decision that is unpopular with politicians, and the MEDIA, and doing something to protect Americans, I'll opt for the latter every time"


.
 
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The NSA was authorized to monitor persons within the USA who were known to be in contact with Al-Qaeda terrorists outside the USA, plain and simple.
Even **more** of a reason why a **retroactive** search warrant, should not have been an impediment, despite the 24/7 imagery of Jack running feverishly around LA trying to head off a nuclear attack at the last minute. I say again: the warrant may be obtained **retroactively** for Pete Sake; how much more leeway did he need?

Look, we all understand that there needs to be a balance between security and civil rights. But where's the balance here? If these numbers were indeed retrieved from a captured terrorist's computer, no Judge would have refused the warrant.

I'm sorry, but something simply doesn't add up here.
Rich
 
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