NSA building massive database of phone records
- Thread starter rick_reno
- Start date
Not that I am familiar with the exact algorithms used in the NSA software, but I suspect that they operate on word content and count and not context, possibly among other things such as frequency content of the speakers voice and whatnot to determine anxiety levels (kinda like a polygraph). I definitely will do some more research on the topic.
Talking about your last trip to the range with your fully automatic weapons, airline travel plans, and OTC Sudafed in the same call, while excited and / or nervous in one too many phone conversations could end up with the software flagging you, and who knows what after that.
Besides, what about the priciple of the thing?
redhawk41 said:
Thank you for a well mannered adult response .
I'm in the gun business so guns are my everyday topic of conversation . I also shoot a little Class 3 and have mentioned it over the phone more than once . It was my understanding that they are recording numbers/traffic mainly in and out of the US ?
I appreciate your comment about principles . The government has enough control already . I'm just trying to understand how them collecting numbers will adversely affect law abiding citizens .
My, aren't we a bit touchy.
You didn't ask for clarification, you asked a question that exposes your complete ignorance of the foundations of the US. You asked, in so many words, what's the big fat hairy deal. And if you need that spelled out, your ignorance is truly abysmal.
steelheart
Moderator
Just a few thoughts...
Hmmmm, let's see here... If we all get rid of our cell phones, won't that go a long way toward thwarting all this monitoring?
Do we really need cell phones? in a word, no. They are luxury items. We all did just fine for decades without being able to call for take out Chinese while driving.
The Sheeple are being programmed to believe that they can't live without cell phones. If everyone in Amerika carries a cell phone, "The Government" doesn't need to "chip" us - we will be doing it for them.
Hmmmm, let's see here... If we all get rid of our cell phones, won't that go a long way toward thwarting all this monitoring?
Do we really need cell phones? in a word, no. They are luxury items. We all did just fine for decades without being able to call for take out Chinese while driving.
The Sheeple are being programmed to believe that they can't live without cell phones. If everyone in Amerika carries a cell phone, "The Government" doesn't need to "chip" us - we will be doing it for them.
couple of points
first point, I keep hearing about "warrentless wiretaps", and then hear these things are being done on cell phones. How can one "wiretap" a cell phone? The Govt has had the legal authority for years to listen to anything that goes over the airwaves, with out a warrant.
point 2, heard a radio report while driving today, was some govt type saying that, about the phone records, they are not listening to the calls, just getting records of which number called what number (and when, I guess), so they can match them against phone numbers they have in some captured Al Quaida documents.
IF that is what they are doing, and all that they are doing, (as we are now told), I think there is a reasonable security issue here. If someone in this country called a terrorist to say Hi, how's the kids?", I can understand our wanting to know where that call came from, so MAYBE we can find out WHO made the call, and how they are doing now. Ya know, just to be sociable.
first point, I keep hearing about "warrentless wiretaps", and then hear these things are being done on cell phones. How can one "wiretap" a cell phone? The Govt has had the legal authority for years to listen to anything that goes over the airwaves, with out a warrant.
point 2, heard a radio report while driving today, was some govt type saying that, about the phone records, they are not listening to the calls, just getting records of which number called what number (and when, I guess), so they can match them against phone numbers they have in some captured Al Quaida documents.
IF that is what they are doing, and all that they are doing, (as we are now told), I think there is a reasonable security issue here. If someone in this country called a terrorist to say Hi, how's the kids?", I can understand our wanting to know where that call came from, so MAYBE we can find out WHO made the call, and how they are doing now. Ya know, just to be sociable.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
You know that the concept of freedom is dead and buried in this country when people add their "me too" for nine pages about illegal immigration and the UN trying to take away your guns, but shrug their shoulders and ask "where's the harm?" at stuff like this.
This behavior is ILLEGAL! Doesn't anybody care about that? The Federal government is playing Big Brother and nobody around here seems to care.
The president LIED when he said they weren't doing this. Doesn't anybody care about that?
Normally gun folks are more leery than the average person of that sort of thing.
The president LIED when he said they weren't doing this. Doesn't anybody care about that?
Normally gun folks are more leery than the average person of that sort of thing.
"You know that the concept of freedom is dead and buried in this country when ..."
... it is OK to question .gov motives behind programs such as NSA phone tapping and national ID cards, but a major no-no to question the causes of events that have accelerated the imposition of such programs.
... it is OK to question .gov motives behind programs such as NSA phone tapping and national ID cards, but a major no-no to question the causes of events that have accelerated the imposition of such programs.
Come on people! Can't you see that this is turning into just another pissing contest between the "Ins" and the "Outs"? (I've pretty much given up on trying to keep track of Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, etc. There are those that are "In" office and those that aren't. The "Ins" are evil, power hungry demigods. The "Outs" are reasonable, caring, fair-minded representatives of the people and are beloved by the media. Neither side actually has a policy that can't or won't be changed at the drop of a hat if it will help get or keep them "In". Where I'm having trouble with this theory is, if the above is true, why is it desirable to be "In" instead of "Out".
I guess I should add a third and fourth parties, the "Media":barf: and the "CT's" (Conspiracy Theorists).
The Media doesn?t really care who is "In" and who is "Out" as long as there is "Controversy". They have even been known to create controversy if they feel there isn't enough currently available to feed their needs.
The "CT"s"can belong to any of the above listed parties but only recognize two. Themselves and "They". "They" are anti-whatever the CT holds dear and will use any means to get their way. "They" feed on making the CT's life miserable.
CT's seem to have a lot in common with hypochondriacs. Unfortunately they are sometimes right. Kind of like the hypochondriacs ephitat, "I told you I was sick".
Anyway, enough of my simplistic political theories. Back to the subject of telephone data gathering. The Phone Company (i.e. TPC, remember the Matt Helm movies?) has been gathering and keeping this data for years. LUDS data is available to the police with just a phone call. I wouldn't be too surprised to find that it is available to anyone for a price. After all, Big Business is pretty much the same as Big Government. One is driven by power, the other by money. Maybe the main problem is that the Gov wants this data for free?
Cell phone monitoring? I was told when I got my first one that it wasn't secure. Same with Internet email, boards etc. I have no expectancy of privacy. If you really don't want anyone eavesdropping, get a scrambled satellite phone.
Now, before the flaming starts, the above is posted as an attempt at humor, not anything anyone should take seriously.
Dean
I guess I should add a third and fourth parties, the "Media":barf: and the "CT's" (Conspiracy Theorists).
The Media doesn?t really care who is "In" and who is "Out" as long as there is "Controversy". They have even been known to create controversy if they feel there isn't enough currently available to feed their needs.
The "CT"s"can belong to any of the above listed parties but only recognize two. Themselves and "They". "They" are anti-whatever the CT holds dear and will use any means to get their way. "They" feed on making the CT's life miserable.
CT's seem to have a lot in common with hypochondriacs. Unfortunately they are sometimes right. Kind of like the hypochondriacs ephitat, "I told you I was sick".
Anyway, enough of my simplistic political theories. Back to the subject of telephone data gathering. The Phone Company (i.e. TPC, remember the Matt Helm movies?) has been gathering and keeping this data for years. LUDS data is available to the police with just a phone call. I wouldn't be too surprised to find that it is available to anyone for a price. After all, Big Business is pretty much the same as Big Government. One is driven by power, the other by money. Maybe the main problem is that the Gov wants this data for free?
Cell phone monitoring? I was told when I got my first one that it wasn't secure. Same with Internet email, boards etc. I have no expectancy of privacy. If you really don't want anyone eavesdropping, get a scrambled satellite phone.
Now, before the flaming starts, the above is posted as an attempt at humor, not anything anyone should take seriously.
Dean
Jericho9mm
New member
sorry when things get heated i usually look for humor as a defense mechanism which is why i post funny pics, anyway...
Good point. Me too.
I'm not a constitutional lawyer, or even a lawyer, but maybe somebody can answer this question: at what point does the collection of information about American citizens voluntarily provided to a third non-governmental party by a Federal agency when that data harvesting is not specifically mandated by a court through the issuance of a warrant for a specific investigation into a specific crime become a violation of the 4th Amendment?
Even if this activity were constitutional and/or necessary, it is the type of thing that requires a certain degree of public disclosure, if for nothing else than to not de-legitimize further activities and investigations by those agencies involved. This is a problem that I have with the intelligence agencies generally: if you want people to believe that you're going after a bad guy, and you want them to support actions on your part that they would not ordinarily support, then you need to provide information on those actions beyond arrogant statements that it's for their own good. My tax dollars pay your salaries and provide your operating budget, so tell me what you're doing.
Frankly, even if it were constitutional and/or necessary, I think it's an incredibly dangerous path down which to travel, and one that this country should not. Just because it may be legal according to some reading of the law, doesn't mean it's wise.
Methinks they've cast their nets a bit too widely. I'll definately be taking a closer look at the fine print on my telephone contracts (probably should have done that beforehand).
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Here's what's frustrating about the whole thing:
First, we discovered that they were tapping phones without warrants. Their response: "Who spilled the beans" followed by "we're intercepting calls from terrorists. Trust us". So I say, "well, it's still illegal. I mean, what if they're not just intercepting calls from terrorists? And everybody laughs.
Then we find out that my reservations were justified and they were intercepting calls from innocents to innocents. Their response: Well, yeah, but only overseas calls from "bad" countries. Trust us". And I pipe up "well, it's illegal and I don't like it. What if they're spying on domestic calls too?" And everybody laughs....what a paranoid nutjob!
But then it turns out my reservations are justified and they actually are spying on purely domestic calls. Their response: "It's for your own good and we'd never troll for information among the general population. Trust us!" And then I pipe up "That's not only illegal, but a violation of the Constitution! I mean, what if they're compiling a database on all of us?" And the same response: What a tinfoil whackjob!
Now it turns out that they are actually spying on all of us, keeping records of who we call and when. And it's ILLEGAL. I mean, what if they're using the information for political purposes instead of security? What if they're abusing it? I know, I know, I'm just paranoid, huh?
And their usual response: "Trust us". Well you know what? I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them. I can tell when they're lying because I see their lips moving!
The last time they (the Executive branch) had this sort of authority they *abused* it. That's why it was taken away from them. And here we go again...(&*^%( buncha pansy-&^^ cowards willing to give away your rights in exchange for the illusion of protection from the "bad men"....
First, we discovered that they were tapping phones without warrants. Their response: "Who spilled the beans" followed by "we're intercepting calls from terrorists. Trust us". So I say, "well, it's still illegal. I mean, what if they're not just intercepting calls from terrorists? And everybody laughs.
Then we find out that my reservations were justified and they were intercepting calls from innocents to innocents. Their response: Well, yeah, but only overseas calls from "bad" countries. Trust us". And I pipe up "well, it's illegal and I don't like it. What if they're spying on domestic calls too?" And everybody laughs....what a paranoid nutjob!
But then it turns out my reservations are justified and they actually are spying on purely domestic calls. Their response: "It's for your own good and we'd never troll for information among the general population. Trust us!" And then I pipe up "That's not only illegal, but a violation of the Constitution! I mean, what if they're compiling a database on all of us?" And the same response: What a tinfoil whackjob!
Now it turns out that they are actually spying on all of us, keeping records of who we call and when. And it's ILLEGAL. I mean, what if they're using the information for political purposes instead of security? What if they're abusing it? I know, I know, I'm just paranoid, huh?
And their usual response: "Trust us". Well you know what? I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them. I can tell when they're lying because I see their lips moving!
The last time they (the Executive branch) had this sort of authority they *abused* it. That's why it was taken away from them. And here we go again...(&*^%( buncha pansy-&^^ cowards willing to give away your rights in exchange for the illusion of protection from the "bad men"....
invention_45
New member
I've done work in an area somewhat related to this. The work was intended for use by the NSA. It was done without a security clearance, so that should tell you where it stands in on the list of their special technologies. Not very special.
Suffice to say that current technology means something wildly different to NSA and other government agencies that what it means to nearly all civilian engineering people.
9/11 - the country is shocked. After a little review, everyone is angry because the government did not "connect the dots" to discover and prevent the attacks.
Fast forward to the present and the government is collecting information about...
If you believe the government should not collect the dots, you should not complain if the government can't connect the dots.
Fast forward to the present and the government is collecting information about...
- people who travel by air, particularly in or out of the country;
- movements of money, particularly in and out of the country; and
- people's electronic communications, particularly in and out of the country.
If you believe the government should not collect the dots, you should not complain if the government can't connect the dots.