NSA building massive database of phone records

rick_reno

Moderator
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The government is secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country, it was reported Thursday.

AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the National Security Agency program shortly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said USA Today, citing anonymous sources it said had direct knowledge of the arrangement.

The program does not involve listening to or taping the calls. Instead it documents who talks to whom in personal and business calls, whether local or long distance, by tracking which numbers are called, the newspaper said.

The NSA and the Office of National Intelligence Director did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

NSA is the same spy agency that conducts the controversial domestic eavesdropping program that has been acknowledged by President Bush. The president said last year that he authorized the NSA to listen, without warrants, to international phone calls involving Americans suspected of terrorist links.

The report came as the former NSA director, Gen. Michael Hayden -- Bush's choice to take over leadership of the CIA -- had been scheduled to visit lawmakers on Capitol Hill Thursday. However, the meetings with Republican Sens. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska were postponed at the request of the White House, said congressional aides in the two Senate offices.

The White House offered no reason for the postponement to the lawmakers.

Hayden already faced criticism because of the NSA's secret domestic eavesdropping program. As head of the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005, Hayden also would have overseen the call-tracking program.

The NSA wants the database of domestic call records to look for any patterns that might suggest terrorist activity, USA Today said.

Don Weber, a senior spokesman for the NSA, told the paper that the agency operates within the law, but would not comment further on its operations.

One big telecommunications company, Qwest, has refused to turn over records to the program, the newspaper said, because of privacy and legal concerns.

Meanwhile, the Justice Department has abruptly ended an inquiry into the warrantless eavesdropping program because the NSA refused to grant its lawyers the necessary security clearance.

Inquiry into domestic spying killed
The Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility, or OPR, sent a fax to Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-New York, on Wednesday saying they were closing their inquiry because without clearance their lawyers cannot examine Justice lawyers' role in the program. (Full story)

Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the terrorist surveillance program "has been subject to extensive oversight both in the executive branch and in Congress from the time of its inception."

Roehrkasse noted the OPR's mission is not to investigate possible wrongdoing in other agencies, but to determine if Justice Department lawyers violated any ethical rules. He declined to comment when asked if the end of the inquiry meant the agency believed its lawyers had handled the wiretapping matter ethically.
 
The government is secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country
How many billion phone calls are made in this country every day?

Jeez, what a mind boggling waste of resources!!! Sounds like "The Government" is suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder.:rolleyes:
 
The "We're at war" crowd will be along shortly. explaining how you should have no problem with this if you have nothing to hide.

They'll only start complaining when the tenant of the White House has a (D) after his name, in which case it will immediately morph into an intolerable abuse of government power.
 
the Justice Department has abruptly ended an inquiry into the warrantless eavesdropping program because the NSA refused to grant its lawyers the necessary security clearance.

That's the right hand shaking the left hand.


They can have my phone number when they pry my cold, dead fingers off the receiver?
 
Lets do some math and see how much data this will take up. Lets say 200 million people in the US make phone calls and each makes 4 calls per day (This is a conservative estimate, I'm pulling numbers out of my butt.) This means there are 800 million calls per day. Now lets calculate how much data will be used to record each call.

45 bytes for sourse name. (15 bytes each field)

45 bytes for destination name. (15 bytes each field)

Probably around 50 bytes for address.

11 bytes for source number

15 bytes for number dialed (International calls need more data)

8 bytes for time connected

8 bytes for time disconnected

10 bytes for recording location in the phone system where this data was aquired.

50 bytes for a comments field

242 bytes total

800,000,000 calls a day

193,600,000,000 bytes of data per day

This becomes 180.3 Gigabytes a day

This may not seem like alot of data, (I have hard drives that can hold this much.) but this is the ammount of storage needed for ONE DAY. This is also assuming no data for database formating.

1.26 terabytes per week.

5.41 terabytes per month

65.81 terabytes per year.

As you can see this is a VERY large amount of data. Even with todays technology it would be difficult to build a server farm powerfull enough to hold all this data AND be able to search it in real time. (Though it would be easy to store the data, they would only need about 130 500GB hard drives per year to store the data,) This is also assuming that there are no backups. They will back up this data so assume that the requirements for storage will double. I also included the most basic ammounts of data to be stored. The more detailed they go the data storage requirements go even higher.
 
True Rich Lucibella, money is not the issue. However the issue now becomes actualy using that data. Even with computers mistakes will be made and records will be lost through whatever means. Now that I think about it, what about all the phone calls that automated systems make to each other. What about VOIP? Even todays computers would have a hard time searching such a database. Im not saying that they won't try, they probably will and be surprised when it doesn't work.
 
Large amounts of data are not really that much of a problem if you know what you're looking for. I doubt seriously if the operators on this information are 'randomly' searching for things that 'might' together. Rather there are other things that trigger searches to help put together trends, or even possibly find one particular call that fits into a 'window'. Some kind of activity or incident would trigger using the data. I could pretty much care less that some gummint operative sees my phone number or that I made a call. They know a whole lot more about me (and you!) than just what I do on the telephone. This whole thing is more ado about nothing. Well, it's something, but not what the media is trying to blow it up to be. sundog
 
The waste of money is the real concern.


They've been able to look up your phone records for years, now they're just looking up eveyone's and storing the information. Your privacy isn't really much wose off with this than it was before.


Oh and btw with data storage it won't take nearly that much space. They'll do some compression or hashing or something on it and it will not take up nearly that much space.
 
Read "No Place to Hide: Behind the Scenes of Our Emerging Surveillance Society" by Robert O'Harrow. There are some excellent data mining programs running today that would have no trouble with that amount of data.

What worries me about this - if we know they're doing this, what are they doing that we don't know about? and when (if ever) will it stop?
 
Even with todays technology it would be difficult to build a server farm powerfull enough to hold all this data AND be able to search it in real time

I don't remember the details, but years ago there was a contest to break a 40-bit version of an encryption method. It was thought, at the time, that the only way to break this method was through brute force (try every possible key).

A group got together and had custom integrated circuits built that could be operated in parallel, that is, they could put as many in operation at once as they could afford to build and feed some keys to each.

That unbreakable code was broken, and it was in a short enough period, I think days, that it was deemed unsecure. I'm pulling from memory big time here but I think it cost $10 million to do and the prize was $10,000 or $100,000. It's part of the reason we use 128 bit keys today, and, if memory serves, there's a contest on to break it too.

But the idea there is that, while we view 100+ terabytes as an awful lot of data to pore over in a year, we might be limited in budget to a few million (as a company). The NSA is not. They have access to capabilities and money to build any custom device, electrical or mechanical, they can conceive of. They also don't have to worry about a profit, so they can do what industry can't. That is, build a product that works optimally but doesn't have to please any customer but themselves.

That means what looks undoable to us might not be so undoable to the NSA.
I used to work for a NSA contractor, Allied/Signal/Bendix/King (mergers, you know) a while back.

I would be very surprised if acquiring, storing, filtering, collating, and comprehending the implications of every phone call made in the US isn't being done at this very moment. I'd be surprised if the content of those calls were as readily managed, but since it's been 20 years since I was in that world, not too very surprised.
 
The "We're at war" crowd will be along shortly. explaining how you should have no problem with this if you have nothing to hide.

Here I am. With nothing to hide. Look at my phone calls for pizza delivery.
 
I'm in the white pages . Why should I be concerned that they have my number ? For that matter , they have my Social Security number . They know where I live if they want me .
I'm trying to understand how this adversely affects the average American .
 
And how often does the Average American discuss terroristic plans ? Kind of like joking outloud on an airplane about having a bomb . Kind of dumb imo .
 
Back
Top