NRA members son arrested for something he wrote
- Thread starter deanf
- Start date
paratrooper
New member
I guess the old boy that wrote "War of The Worlds" would be public enemy #1 with this logic .
You know, I was a geek and a nerd in high school. I used to do this running cartoon series in my notebook when I was bored in class. It was called "Duck Hunt's Busy Day," and in each episode I would progress through the day, systematically killing all the cool kids, the teachers who made my life hard, the boys who wouldn't look at me -- you get the point. They always had themes -- one was like a Clint Eastwood spaghetti western, in one I poisoned every one, and in one I somehow accidentally killed everyone (that one was subtitled "oops!").
Twenty years later, I have yet to kill anyone. I have, however, earned a BA in English, an MFA in creative writing and have had my creative writing published internationally. My first book is due out in 2002.
So this kid wrote a violent story -- so did STEPHEN FREAKING KING!!! Is it going to get to where we are scared to put our thoughts on paper any more?
I guess then they'll just find a way to go inside our heads to get them. Sheesh.
Twenty years later, I have yet to kill anyone. I have, however, earned a BA in English, an MFA in creative writing and have had my creative writing published internationally. My first book is due out in 2002.
So this kid wrote a violent story -- so did STEPHEN FREAKING KING!!! Is it going to get to where we are scared to put our thoughts on paper any more?
I guess then they'll just find a way to go inside our heads to get them. Sheesh.
Dennis Olson
New member
See Powderific's thread:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50537
He needs to be warned about this kind of thing....
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50537
He needs to be warned about this kind of thing....
Jeez H
Am I glad that I've already gaduated from the guberment indoctrian system. If they had that crap when I was in school, I guess I would have been doing time in Bellview instead of the military. Of course, with Saul as my mentor in Horror and Asimov as my mentor in SciFi, and what tales my warped mind created from both... I would have probably been sent under the "nut house" forever.
Again... JEEZ!
Am I glad that I've already gaduated from the guberment indoctrian system. If they had that crap when I was in school, I guess I would have been doing time in Bellview instead of the military. Of course, with Saul as my mentor in Horror and Asimov as my mentor in SciFi, and what tales my warped mind created from both... I would have probably been sent under the "nut house" forever.
Again... JEEZ!
Arrested for "False Public Alarm"!
New Jersey has to be the last outpost of the Soviet Empire.
Is this their new wrinkle for deneying Freedom of Speech? If they would only put half as much energy into enforcing their people's civil liberties as they do deneying them, that state with its bad reputation would move up in the estimation of the world, not down even further.
New Jersey has to be the last outpost of the Soviet Empire.
Is this their new wrinkle for deneying Freedom of Speech? If they would only put half as much energy into enforcing their people's civil liberties as they do deneying them, that state with its bad reputation would move up in the estimation of the world, not down even further.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
What kind of effect is throwing that kid in a JD center and running a bunch of psych tests on him going to have? Nothing good, I'd wager.
I can't figure out how the police managed to take this boy from his home in the middle of the night. I can't help but think that his parents were probably cooperating fully. Betcha they confiscated the guns, too.
I'm afraid that I wouldn't have allowed anybody to take my kid at 1:30 in the morning. You think my kid is a risk and want him to undergo psych tests? You come and ask my permission!
If the police took this kid without the parents' permission, then this is nothing more than the "thought police" superceding parental rights and responsibilities.
Disgusting.
I can't figure out how the police managed to take this boy from his home in the middle of the night. I can't help but think that his parents were probably cooperating fully. Betcha they confiscated the guns, too.
I'm afraid that I wouldn't have allowed anybody to take my kid at 1:30 in the morning. You think my kid is a risk and want him to undergo psych tests? You come and ask my permission!
If the police took this kid without the parents' permission, then this is nothing more than the "thought police" superceding parental rights and responsibilities.
Disgusting.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
OK, here's another perspective from a different news source. Newsday seems to be a pretty liberal source, so I'm sure that they played up the NRA connection just to make gun owners look bad.
This is from the Daily Record.
It sounds like this is a pretty troubled kid. I see here that the police had a search warrant. I would think that they would have needed an arrest warrant to take the boy. Otherwise, it seems like a law school drop-out could get the kid out by crying "prior restraint!"
This part bothers me most of all:
Looks to me like the thought police have a judge in their pocket as well.
Does New Jersey elect its judges? If so, remember the name of Superior Court Judge Salem V. Ahto come re-election time.
This is from the Daily Record.
It sounds like this is a pretty troubled kid. I see here that the police had a search warrant. I would think that they would have needed an arrest warrant to take the boy. Otherwise, it seems like a law school drop-out could get the kid out by crying "prior restraint!"
This part bothers me most of all:
Looks to me like the thought police have a judge in their pocket as well.
Does New Jersey elect its judges? If so, remember the name of Superior Court Judge Salem V. Ahto come re-election time.
Wow.......this is something I can relate to. My son was expelled from school for something he wrote, more accurately something he drew. He got bored in class one day and drew a map of the school, he was expelled for "threatening students" This incident was reported to the Police, Juvenile Affairs, and Child Welfare by the school. All of these agencies as well as the District Attorney declined to press any charges because there was no verbal, written or implied threat. The school staff called Child Welfare on me a second time, they saw my son in Church and they were distressed that he wasn't locked up somewhere. This time they claimed that he'd threatened suicide, which is totally false. Under threat of a court order to remove him from my home, I had to take him to an emergency room for a psych evaluation to determine if he was a threat to himself or others or if he needed inpatient therapy. The answer to both questions was no. All investigations made by Child Welfare were closed with no findings or charges filed.
After I kept hammering on the school to let him back into classes, their response was that they still saw my son as a threat because he hadn't had a full psychological profile done by a licensed psychologist. I told them that I'd let him be tested, but ONLY if they promised to let him back into school upon completion of the exam and any recommeded counseling. I let them pick the Dr, and we (both of us) were grilled for over 4 hours. The result? No threat was found. All of the tests were within the normal ranges for a child of his age, and the Dr was impressed with his intelligence and articulation. No emotional/social dysfunctional tednancies were noted. The MMPI-A scores showed him to be defensive in some of his answers, but like I told `em, this exam is the closest thing he's had to a trial, and he was the DEFENDant. The subsequent examination we had scheduled to determine whether or not he's emotionally disturbed under Special Education statutes was cancelled and no counseling of any kind was recommended. They have no choice but to let him back in school.
The written and verbal comments made by the school staff about my son throughought this ordeal are apalling. He's going back to this school only until I get him enrolled in another school. He's already missed 6 weeks of classes and the school has already stated that they had no intention of removing this incident from his record, even though they're the only body of people in the civilized world that see this incident and my son as a threat. I've been silent on this issue up until now, but as soon as my son gets transferred I'm going to start making a BUNCH of noise over this. It just sickens me when I see what these school officials get away with.
Artimus
*we now return you to your regularly scheduled deprogramming*
After I kept hammering on the school to let him back into classes, their response was that they still saw my son as a threat because he hadn't had a full psychological profile done by a licensed psychologist. I told them that I'd let him be tested, but ONLY if they promised to let him back into school upon completion of the exam and any recommeded counseling. I let them pick the Dr, and we (both of us) were grilled for over 4 hours. The result? No threat was found. All of the tests were within the normal ranges for a child of his age, and the Dr was impressed with his intelligence and articulation. No emotional/social dysfunctional tednancies were noted. The MMPI-A scores showed him to be defensive in some of his answers, but like I told `em, this exam is the closest thing he's had to a trial, and he was the DEFENDant. The subsequent examination we had scheduled to determine whether or not he's emotionally disturbed under Special Education statutes was cancelled and no counseling of any kind was recommended. They have no choice but to let him back in school.
The written and verbal comments made by the school staff about my son throughought this ordeal are apalling. He's going back to this school only until I get him enrolled in another school. He's already missed 6 weeks of classes and the school has already stated that they had no intention of removing this incident from his record, even though they're the only body of people in the civilized world that see this incident and my son as a threat. I've been silent on this issue up until now, but as soon as my son gets transferred I'm going to start making a BUNCH of noise over this. It just sickens me when I see what these school officials get away with.
Artimus
*we now return you to your regularly scheduled deprogramming*
As stupid and reprehensible as this is, it smacks of some kid rubbing some salt in the wounds in society just to piss people off. We all have written things that were just for our own consumption.
Should the kid be put through this, maybe not, but a first hand course in tact is ok. Before you start flaming me about 1A stuff, none of us would even care if the letters NRA were not in the document. Vent frustrations at the writer who saw the need to connect a poor decision by a teenager to an organization that represents me.
Should the kid be put through this, maybe not, but a first hand course in tact is ok. Before you start flaming me about 1A stuff, none of us would even care if the letters NRA were not in the document. Vent frustrations at the writer who saw the need to connect a poor decision by a teenager to an organization that represents me.
A law enforcement perspective...
School violence like workplace violence requires early intervention to prevent a potentially violent situation. The individual is advised in no certain terms that the "threat" is unacceptable. Lest we forget, the majority of people who commit violent acts (workplace or school) are actually quite conversant about it. The problem arises when no one listens and intervenes.
This is not to say that one cannot blow off steam. Certainly all of us have expressed a desire to "kill someone" but with no real intent to commit any act of violence. A problem arises when it becomes difficult to distinguish between a passing frustration and a serious intent to kill. As administrators become more paranoid, they tend to err on the side of caution. Hence the raid.
However, a 1:30 a.m. raid seems to be overreactive. Even if a raid were to be done, it could have been done during daylight hours. But, even before a raid is done, other factors should be considered.
Is the subject a loner? Does the subject feel isolated? How well does the subject interact with his fellow students and the staff? If the subject appears well adjusted and wrote a singular paper, then a talk with a counselor or the dean in the presence of law enforcement should have been sufficient and not a full scale night time raid. My take is that the threat assessment was overblown.
[Edited by 4V50 Gary on 12-24-2000 at 12:22 PM]
School violence like workplace violence requires early intervention to prevent a potentially violent situation. The individual is advised in no certain terms that the "threat" is unacceptable. Lest we forget, the majority of people who commit violent acts (workplace or school) are actually quite conversant about it. The problem arises when no one listens and intervenes.
This is not to say that one cannot blow off steam. Certainly all of us have expressed a desire to "kill someone" but with no real intent to commit any act of violence. A problem arises when it becomes difficult to distinguish between a passing frustration and a serious intent to kill. As administrators become more paranoid, they tend to err on the side of caution. Hence the raid.
However, a 1:30 a.m. raid seems to be overreactive. Even if a raid were to be done, it could have been done during daylight hours. But, even before a raid is done, other factors should be considered.
Is the subject a loner? Does the subject feel isolated? How well does the subject interact with his fellow students and the staff? If the subject appears well adjusted and wrote a singular paper, then a talk with a counselor or the dean in the presence of law enforcement should have been sufficient and not a full scale night time raid. My take is that the threat assessment was overblown.
[Edited by 4V50 Gary on 12-24-2000 at 12:22 PM]
EchoFiveMike
New member
This is disgusting!
Roxbury Police Department and the Morris County ProsecutorÕs Office, armed with a search warrant, to roust him from his parentsÕ Kenvil home around 1:30 a.m. Friday, authorities said. <<<<<<<<<
Invading the house at 0130 in the morning over a writing by some teenager about violence? These cops(and the issueing judge) should be whipped through the streets(preferably with barbed wire)! What was the juvenile officer thinking? What about just talking to the kid? What about an approach at school? Nope, that's too simple. It doesn't get headlines. Instead lets roust them out of bed, disturb the whole neighborhood, in order to remove any possibility that anyone in the house will have enough wits about them to demand their rights. What a bunch of cowards.
>>>but a first hand course in tact is ok. Before you start flaming me about 1A stuff, none of us would even care if the letters NRA were not in the document. <<<<
Since when was it illegal to be abrasive? I'm sorry the thought police didn't like your answer, we're going to have to take your kids away. I always care about the government(and their enforcement branch, the police, in all their guises) going FUBAR because some citizen did something they didn't like.
>>>>Critchley said as the shackled youth stood silently in the courtroom, his parents behind him. Nonetheless, Critchley said, the document cries out for intervention.<<<<<
So, you have the kid(a juvenile, presumably) shackeled in the court room? Any chance that's going to embitter him against all LE from now on? Really good way to develope community relations. Wonder if they should get a leson in tact?
>>>>The judge, after perusing the manifesto, said he wanted the teen detained in the county Juvenile Detention Center in Morris Township until a psychological evaluation is completed. He advised the parents to hire a lawyer and said he will review the case once the mental health exam is finished.
"I feel very uncomfortable about accepting the guarantees of a very well-intentioned parent," Ahto said of the motherÕs wish to keep her son home. <<<<<<<
So because some judge thinks the kid's writing is dangerous, he gets to miss Christmas with his family(and probably more time too since things at the Psyche center are going to be disorganized around the holidays, count on it). All you NJ residents need to make sure this judge is not retained. For the love of God, what's wrong with our country? Semper Fidelis...Ken
Roxbury Police Department and the Morris County ProsecutorÕs Office, armed with a search warrant, to roust him from his parentsÕ Kenvil home around 1:30 a.m. Friday, authorities said. <<<<<<<<<
Invading the house at 0130 in the morning over a writing by some teenager about violence? These cops(and the issueing judge) should be whipped through the streets(preferably with barbed wire)! What was the juvenile officer thinking? What about just talking to the kid? What about an approach at school? Nope, that's too simple. It doesn't get headlines. Instead lets roust them out of bed, disturb the whole neighborhood, in order to remove any possibility that anyone in the house will have enough wits about them to demand their rights. What a bunch of cowards.
>>>but a first hand course in tact is ok. Before you start flaming me about 1A stuff, none of us would even care if the letters NRA were not in the document. <<<<
Since when was it illegal to be abrasive? I'm sorry the thought police didn't like your answer, we're going to have to take your kids away. I always care about the government(and their enforcement branch, the police, in all their guises) going FUBAR because some citizen did something they didn't like.
>>>>Critchley said as the shackled youth stood silently in the courtroom, his parents behind him. Nonetheless, Critchley said, the document cries out for intervention.<<<<<
So, you have the kid(a juvenile, presumably) shackeled in the court room? Any chance that's going to embitter him against all LE from now on? Really good way to develope community relations. Wonder if they should get a leson in tact?
>>>>The judge, after perusing the manifesto, said he wanted the teen detained in the county Juvenile Detention Center in Morris Township until a psychological evaluation is completed. He advised the parents to hire a lawyer and said he will review the case once the mental health exam is finished.
"I feel very uncomfortable about accepting the guarantees of a very well-intentioned parent," Ahto said of the motherÕs wish to keep her son home. <<<<<<<
So because some judge thinks the kid's writing is dangerous, he gets to miss Christmas with his family(and probably more time too since things at the Psyche center are going to be disorganized around the holidays, count on it). All you NJ residents need to make sure this judge is not retained. For the love of God, what's wrong with our country? Semper Fidelis...Ken
I seem to remember a story about two kids in Colorado who made a home movie for a school project about killing classmates. Both of these teens came from good families. Teachers dismissed this movie as simply two kids blowing off steam and childish fantasy.
We all know what became of these two teens from Colombine High School!
So, if teachers report this kid and the police act, they are Nazi's who are violating his rights! If the teachers and police ignore it as just childish behaviour and something happens, they are lazy, worthless government employees not doing their duty!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
We all know what became of these two teens from Colombine High School!
So, if teachers report this kid and the police act, they are Nazi's who are violating his rights! If the teachers and police ignore it as just childish behaviour and something happens, they are lazy, worthless government employees not doing their duty!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
walangkatapat
New member
EchoFiveMike, Good points! I guess we need to raid any kids home that has written a politically incorrect manuscript. Welcome to the world of the thought police coming to your home soon.
EchoFiveMike is correct
In our society, our physical FREEDOM cannot be taken away unless one commits a CRIME. This kid did not commit any crime (and if he did commit "false public alarm", then the statute as written is clearly unconstitutional, as applied to this instance, barring further unknown facts of specific threats). His false arrest and false detention should be and is actionable, at least in America (don't know about PRNJ). He should sue the pants off the prosecutor and child welfare dept. Whether or not his mother and others think he planned to act on the violence is utterly irrelevant. He should remain free unless and until a crime is committed. So far all he has done is exercise his freedom of speech. There are many many ways one can warn the boy without a false arrest/detention. F'ing judge should be publicly caned, stripped of his job, and jailed for a few years. Arrrgghhh!
In our society, our physical FREEDOM cannot be taken away unless one commits a CRIME. This kid did not commit any crime (and if he did commit "false public alarm", then the statute as written is clearly unconstitutional, as applied to this instance, barring further unknown facts of specific threats). His false arrest and false detention should be and is actionable, at least in America (don't know about PRNJ). He should sue the pants off the prosecutor and child welfare dept. Whether or not his mother and others think he planned to act on the violence is utterly irrelevant. He should remain free unless and until a crime is committed. So far all he has done is exercise his freedom of speech. There are many many ways one can warn the boy without a false arrest/detention. F'ing judge should be publicly caned, stripped of his job, and jailed for a few years. Arrrgghhh!
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Cactus, I don't believe anybody is meaning that the kid should have been ignored. There is a vast difference between investigating or monitoring by the various officials who work in the mental health arena, and "rousting at 1:30AM" with the arrest. Rational, mature thought would have had somebody from the school contacting the parents for discussion--during normal business hours, or by appointment at other times.
It is the irrational mis-handling of of the situation which disgusts me. The more I read of the behavior of people in authority in society, the less respect I have for these so-called leaders and the more doubts I have about *their* maturity and mental health...
Art
It is the irrational mis-handling of of the situation which disgusts me. The more I read of the behavior of people in authority in society, the less respect I have for these so-called leaders and the more doubts I have about *their* maturity and mental health...
Art