Now that we have a new president ...
- Thread starter jimpeel
- Start date
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Saw on my desktop news that Obama would appoint Rahm Emmanuel as his Chief of Staff (Emmanuel co-chaired the 2006 strategy with Schumer). Like Schumer, Emmanuel has a long history of antipathy towards gun owners.
Could mean a lot things but I take it as a sign that there won't be any overt attacks on the Second unless something just falls into their laps publicity wise. I still expect the major war to be fought on judicial nominations.
Could mean a lot things but I take it as a sign that there won't be any overt attacks on the Second unless something just falls into their laps publicity wise. I still expect the major war to be fought on judicial nominations.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
buzz_knox wrote:
I'm not so sure about this. While I don't have the secret pals in high places that Antipitas does, I do read the left-wing press (not the MSM, which isn't nearly as far to the left as the folks on Fox News would have us think, but actual progressive media like The Nation --
) fairly closely, and from what I've seen, gun bans, increased regulation of guns, just aren't on the list right now. One example: The Rachel Maddow Show has an online poll (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27562795) going on issues her viewers want the new administration to address -- not only is gun control not one of the 13 choices (14, if you include "other"), but after going through several pages of comments from viewers and searching for the word "gun," I got one hit, in a short post from someone who seemed to be pro-gun, not anti. That was it. (I also searched a bit on "handgun" and "assault weapon" and got no hits at all.)
I think it's easy to assume, when one believes that one issue is of overriding importance, that the opposition is equally passionate. 'Tain't necessarily so... Not that there aren't passionate anti's -- of course there are -- but I suspect that many if not most of them fall into the Sarah Brady group: people who've experienced gun violence first-hand, for whom fighting for gun control is a way to regain some sense of control over their own lives. I disagree with them, but I understand the emotional impulse.
The point I want to make here is just that Mr. Obama's "left-wing constituency" is going to be all over him about the economy, the war in Iraq, health care reform, etc., etc.: gun control just isn't a bone they much want to chew, compared to a lot of other issues. And given that it's not, it would be political madness for his administration to make it an issue, since they will need the support of centrist and right-of-center members of Congress in order to make progress with issues that matter a lot more to Mr Obama, his supporters, and possibly to the country as a whole...
I'm not so sure about this. While I don't have the secret pals in high places that Antipitas does, I do read the left-wing press (not the MSM, which isn't nearly as far to the left as the folks on Fox News would have us think, but actual progressive media like The Nation --
) fairly closely, and from what I've seen, gun bans, increased regulation of guns, just aren't on the list right now. One example: The Rachel Maddow Show has an online poll (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27562795) going on issues her viewers want the new administration to address -- not only is gun control not one of the 13 choices (14, if you include "other"), but after going through several pages of comments from viewers and searching for the word "gun," I got one hit, in a short post from someone who seemed to be pro-gun, not anti. That was it. (I also searched a bit on "handgun" and "assault weapon" and got no hits at all.)I think it's easy to assume, when one believes that one issue is of overriding importance, that the opposition is equally passionate. 'Tain't necessarily so... Not that there aren't passionate anti's -- of course there are -- but I suspect that many if not most of them fall into the Sarah Brady group: people who've experienced gun violence first-hand, for whom fighting for gun control is a way to regain some sense of control over their own lives. I disagree with them, but I understand the emotional impulse.
The point I want to make here is just that Mr. Obama's "left-wing constituency" is going to be all over him about the economy, the war in Iraq, health care reform, etc., etc.: gun control just isn't a bone they much want to chew, compared to a lot of other issues. And given that it's not, it would be political madness for his administration to make it an issue, since they will need the support of centrist and right-of-center members of Congress in order to make progress with issues that matter a lot more to Mr Obama, his supporters, and possibly to the country as a whole...
Least anyone missed it, Obama is the first 50% African American president in the history of the US. He is taking office at a time, much like JFK did, when people think he is the Mesiah. The problem is he may remember JFK's demise, and, that may motivate him. However, he maybe wise enough to realize that nothing he can pass in the way of gun control will affect millions of guns already legally owned. In fact, he may well be smart enough to realize that that is a dog he would be better off NOT kicking, and just letting it sleep...
That said, the democratic like increase in Federal spending, and government is a worry, created by Bush, and our existing congress. It would be odd if the Democrats do what the Republicans should have, and, if the democrats finally get a clue, and start realizing to retain power, they must build the middle class again.
What elected Obama was his potential to change the status quo. With a 9% approval rating for congress, I can't think of any clearer message then this president that the country will not accept more billions in profitering in oil, and more government corruption, or more wars for no particular reason.
Obama represents hope in that he is a brilliant politician, willing to say, and do, anything to gain power, which he now has. He may well be willing to go against party lines as well, now that he has the oval office.
I don't see Obama as having any long term tie to the democratic party, and, as a semi-african american, I don't see any major bonding going on with that party. Remember, he was only in the REAL congress about 150 days, and, his actions could well be totally wild card, and, his own counsel, now that he is in office.
At his young age, he could well see himself as trying to cement himself in history as a great president, not democrat or republican, and doing everything he can to that end.
While many, more well to do folks may worry about Obama and taxes, being a current, lowly school teacher, it would be really nice to have a president more intrested in attacking this country, it's ignorance, and poverty, rather then giving 50 billion dollars to Africa to fight a disease that will not be cured by money.
Finally it's already nice to have a black role model that doesn't wear gold teeth, baggy pants, and pimp around.
I have great hope that the next 8 years will lead to change in the black culture, giving hope to young black men they have never had before, and, a role model for action and behavior that better represents our nation.
I'm approaching this administration with more hope then I had since Bush was elected, and, we were betrayed. Bush's expansion of the Federal Government, and, the poor management of the war, read do we really think we are going to bring peace to a region that's been at war for nearly 5000 years?,Enron, and many other issues left me with a really hopeless feeling, since the alternative is even worse, though not much, the Pelosi's, Boxers, and Fienstiens that are excreted from our wonderful state...
Less I forget:
I'm finding a real change in 'facist-liberals' in my area, back to being more like 'liberals'. The dogmatism and ruthless slaughter of any idea not their own is changing. Even in the trenches with school teachers in Kali, things are changing. A recognition of the failure of both the 'facist-liberal'
and republican approaches is finally happening. Teachers are faced that we don't have enough money, and, our kids don't either. Poverty=stupidity, maybe not all the time, but, it certainly helps. The fact that a democratic congress passed NCLB is hitting home everyday, without funding it, and, it's real clear that without an elevated standard of living, our next generation is in deep trouble. The combination of extreme work hours, low wages, high rents, etc. are reducing family ties, increasing divorce, and reducing parent child contact. The incredible burden 48% immigrant Mexican children are placing on this states education system are very near breaking it, at least in public schools, and, the quality of a public education is becoming far to determined by income, something that most of these aging hippies fought for, equal opportunity for all.
If Obama wants the real battle, it's for our next generation, not Iraq's, or Irans...
That said, the democratic like increase in Federal spending, and government is a worry, created by Bush, and our existing congress. It would be odd if the Democrats do what the Republicans should have, and, if the democrats finally get a clue, and start realizing to retain power, they must build the middle class again.
What elected Obama was his potential to change the status quo. With a 9% approval rating for congress, I can't think of any clearer message then this president that the country will not accept more billions in profitering in oil, and more government corruption, or more wars for no particular reason.
Obama represents hope in that he is a brilliant politician, willing to say, and do, anything to gain power, which he now has. He may well be willing to go against party lines as well, now that he has the oval office.
I don't see Obama as having any long term tie to the democratic party, and, as a semi-african american, I don't see any major bonding going on with that party. Remember, he was only in the REAL congress about 150 days, and, his actions could well be totally wild card, and, his own counsel, now that he is in office.
At his young age, he could well see himself as trying to cement himself in history as a great president, not democrat or republican, and doing everything he can to that end.
While many, more well to do folks may worry about Obama and taxes, being a current, lowly school teacher, it would be really nice to have a president more intrested in attacking this country, it's ignorance, and poverty, rather then giving 50 billion dollars to Africa to fight a disease that will not be cured by money.
Finally it's already nice to have a black role model that doesn't wear gold teeth, baggy pants, and pimp around.
I have great hope that the next 8 years will lead to change in the black culture, giving hope to young black men they have never had before, and, a role model for action and behavior that better represents our nation.
I'm approaching this administration with more hope then I had since Bush was elected, and, we were betrayed. Bush's expansion of the Federal Government, and, the poor management of the war, read do we really think we are going to bring peace to a region that's been at war for nearly 5000 years?,Enron, and many other issues left me with a really hopeless feeling, since the alternative is even worse, though not much, the Pelosi's, Boxers, and Fienstiens that are excreted from our wonderful state...
Less I forget:
I'm finding a real change in 'facist-liberals' in my area, back to being more like 'liberals'. The dogmatism and ruthless slaughter of any idea not their own is changing. Even in the trenches with school teachers in Kali, things are changing. A recognition of the failure of both the 'facist-liberal'
and republican approaches is finally happening. Teachers are faced that we don't have enough money, and, our kids don't either. Poverty=stupidity, maybe not all the time, but, it certainly helps. The fact that a democratic congress passed NCLB is hitting home everyday, without funding it, and, it's real clear that without an elevated standard of living, our next generation is in deep trouble. The combination of extreme work hours, low wages, high rents, etc. are reducing family ties, increasing divorce, and reducing parent child contact. The incredible burden 48% immigrant Mexican children are placing on this states education system are very near breaking it, at least in public schools, and, the quality of a public education is becoming far to determined by income, something that most of these aging hippies fought for, equal opportunity for all.
If Obama wants the real battle, it's for our next generation, not Iraq's, or Irans...
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Sure it is. Obama wants a new "assault weapons" ban. He's already said so. New legislation has been drafted by Democrats in congress, and it is ready for passage. And ready for Obama's signature. None of you seriously doubt that Obama will veto that legislation, do you?
And that'll be just the beginning: wait for new restrictions on ammunition ('armor piercing'), taxes (noting like raising taxes on guns and ammunition), and 'sniper guns', which will probably be included in the assault weapons ban. After all, you really don't need powerful ammunition, powerful scopes, muzzle breaks, and more than a two shot capacity to hunt, you know.....Bush also said that he'd renew the AWB but it never happened. Frankly, I think that Obama and the Democrats have got a lot bigger fish to fry than gun control right now. Remember, Obama changes what he says about gun control (and several other issues) depending on what crowd he's talking to. While that means he may not be a friend of gunowners, it also mean that he may not be the enemy that we think he is either. I've got a feeling that Obama is the type to do and say what will get him elected more than what he thinks is right. The man isn't stupid and has probably seen that gun control has been a losing issue for his party for quite some time now. While I do think that it's certainly something that we need to keep an eye on, I also think that there are too many moderate and conservative Democrats in congress to go into full-on panic mode just yet. Also remember, the Democrats don't have their fillibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate. When it boils right down to it, I doubt we'll see any overt attacks on 2A during Obama's first term without some catastrophe to motivate it (i.e. school shooting, assasaination of a prominent figure, etc.)
This President, like any other, has a fixed amount of political capital to spend. There are many issues out there that will require expending that capital, among them:
raising the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour over two years
universal healthcare
ending the war in Iraq
ending Afghanistan
Stopping Iran from developing nukes, and failing that, stopping the war in the middle east that will follow- especially since the US will have a smaller presence there (that war will almost be guaranteed to go nuclear when Iran and Israel get into it)
Russia's new military build up, and nuclear missile deployment into Europe (a move which violates current treaties)
China's new military buildup
India's military buildup
Venezuela's military buildup (along with the fact that Russia is basing nuclear bombers there)
Cuba's military buildup, and the imminent death of Cuba's and N Korea's leaders, and the turmoil that will cause, and last but certainly not least, the failing economy.
That doesn't even take into account the miscellaneous unforeseen things that will crop up, nor does it address the $11 trillion US debt, the looming inflation crisis, or the other items on his agenda.
All of this will require a lot of effort, and will leave little time and effort to fight the battle over a bunch of gun control laws, and the markers that will be given out to placate the RINOs needed to break the fillibuster. With all that said, I have been hedging my bets for over a year by buying guns, magazines, ammo, and spare parts.
raising the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour over two years
universal healthcare
ending the war in Iraq
ending Afghanistan
Stopping Iran from developing nukes, and failing that, stopping the war in the middle east that will follow- especially since the US will have a smaller presence there (that war will almost be guaranteed to go nuclear when Iran and Israel get into it)
Russia's new military build up, and nuclear missile deployment into Europe (a move which violates current treaties)
China's new military buildup
India's military buildup
Venezuela's military buildup (along with the fact that Russia is basing nuclear bombers there)
Cuba's military buildup, and the imminent death of Cuba's and N Korea's leaders, and the turmoil that will cause, and last but certainly not least, the failing economy.
That doesn't even take into account the miscellaneous unforeseen things that will crop up, nor does it address the $11 trillion US debt, the looming inflation crisis, or the other items on his agenda.
All of this will require a lot of effort, and will leave little time and effort to fight the battle over a bunch of gun control laws, and the markers that will be given out to placate the RINOs needed to break the fillibuster. With all that said, I have been hedging my bets for over a year by buying guns, magazines, ammo, and spare parts.
The fly in the ointment is this: The Edward Kennedy Memorial <insert bill name> Act.
Does anyone here think that there would be any opposition to anything with that name on it after he croaks?
Remember the things he tried to attach to the lawful commerce in firearms act? We discussed it at length in L&P and those discussions are still out there for research for those willing to do so.
They will hoist anti-firearms legislation before he assumes room temperature and everyone will jump on it and give it the sympathy vote. Ted would've wanted it that way, ya know.
Does anyone here think that there would be any opposition to anything with that name on it after he croaks?
Remember the things he tried to attach to the lawful commerce in firearms act? We discussed it at length in L&P and those discussions are still out there for research for those willing to do so.
They will hoist anti-firearms legislation before he assumes room temperature and everyone will jump on it and give it the sympathy vote. Ted would've wanted it that way, ya know.
This President, like any other, has a fixed amount of political capital to spend.
As DiveMedic said, plus:
Raising income taxes so he can hand out "refunds" to those who haven't paid income taxes (about one-third of Americans who would receive the promised middle-class tax cut will receive their "tax cut" in the form of a refundable tax credit even though they have no income tax liability).
Global warming
Solving the Israeli-Paestinian conflict
Repealing or re-negotiating NAFTA
Immigration reform
Giving employees "free choice" in deciding whether to have a union pursuant to the Orwellian-named Employee Free Choice Act that he sponsored as a Senator (which actually deprives workers of the right to vote for or against a union in a government-supervised election with secret balloting).
Dealing with home foreclosures and this thing called the economy
And so on.
No, the President-elect has a full plate, and I say that gun control is not on the menu for this term.
In a recent interview, Rahm Emmanuel, a former Clinton White House aide and now the Chief-of-Staff-designate, said that the Clinton administration got into trouble with gays in the military and other things that they didn't get elected to do. He made it clear that Mr. Obama's job is to get the things done that he was elected to get done.
Mr. Obama did not run on a take-their-guns-away platform. Regardless of what his actual views are, he doesn't need this headache. In his second term, maybe.
Mr. Emmanuel is focused and disciplined, with very sharp elbows, and he will crack the whip on the Dems in congress to keep them in line. My guess (and hope) is that he will see that "cracking down on guns" won't add to his president's re-election prospects and will only galvanize the opposition. I have great confidence that Mr. Emmanuel will browbeat, intimidate, and neuter anyone who interferes with Mr. Obama's re-election.
As DiveMedic said, plus:
Raising income taxes so he can hand out "refunds" to those who haven't paid income taxes (about one-third of Americans who would receive the promised middle-class tax cut will receive their "tax cut" in the form of a refundable tax credit even though they have no income tax liability).
Global warming
Solving the Israeli-Paestinian conflict
Repealing or re-negotiating NAFTA
Immigration reform
Giving employees "free choice" in deciding whether to have a union pursuant to the Orwellian-named Employee Free Choice Act that he sponsored as a Senator (which actually deprives workers of the right to vote for or against a union in a government-supervised election with secret balloting).
Dealing with home foreclosures and this thing called the economy
And so on.
No, the President-elect has a full plate, and I say that gun control is not on the menu for this term.
In a recent interview, Rahm Emmanuel, a former Clinton White House aide and now the Chief-of-Staff-designate, said that the Clinton administration got into trouble with gays in the military and other things that they didn't get elected to do. He made it clear that Mr. Obama's job is to get the things done that he was elected to get done.
Mr. Obama did not run on a take-their-guns-away platform. Regardless of what his actual views are, he doesn't need this headache. In his second term, maybe.
Mr. Emmanuel is focused and disciplined, with very sharp elbows, and he will crack the whip on the Dems in congress to keep them in line. My guess (and hope) is that he will see that "cracking down on guns" won't add to his president's re-election prospects and will only galvanize the opposition. I have great confidence that Mr. Emmanuel will browbeat, intimidate, and neuter anyone who interferes with Mr. Obama's re-election.
By the way, there's always this. Obama may not want to wait for the Congress to act.
The PEO was supposed to be used for Executive Branch issues only but we have seen the PEO used for much more in recent years. As Paul Begala once stated "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool."
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/09/obamas-transition-chief-bushs-executive-orders-review/
As one person in the article states: "Executive orders have the power of law and they can cover just about anything," Tobias said in a telephone interview."
The PEO was supposed to be used for Executive Branch issues only but we have seen the PEO used for much more in recent years. As Paul Begala once stated "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool."
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/09/obamas-transition-chief-bushs-executive-orders-review/
As one person in the article states: "Executive orders have the power of law and they can cover just about anything," Tobias said in a telephone interview."
Obama will not be behind a direct 2A attack, at least not in this term. He might sign on to one but he is not going to waste his limited capital on pushing for it when his list of "Societal Change" issues will most likely consume it all.
As I said, look out for regulation through Environmental issues (lead ammo taxes/bans) which if you oppose it's because you "hate the Earth" and especially be wary of who he sends to the UN the next time they come around looking to ban private arms...
As I said, look out for regulation through Environmental issues (lead ammo taxes/bans) which if you oppose it's because you "hate the Earth" and especially be wary of who he sends to the UN the next time they come around looking to ban private arms...
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Why - the existential future of the USA? If Obama tried to pass very strict controls, he would probably lose the majorities in the House and Senate in 2010.
Then the laws would be undone - happened before.
If you want to pose an existential crisis, you need to lay it out. If you think that gun laws will lead to some revolution in this time of economic crisis - to be blunt you are flat out mistaken despite internet rhetoric. With the economy in the toilet, there will be NO support for further disrupting our future over, for example, a new AWB renewal.
I'm a little frustrated by the constant TEOTWAWKI predictions. The USA didn't end with the Brady Bill, etc. We soldiered on.
Here's what I said before:
1. The loss of McCain is based on Bush's incompetency and the economy tanking.
2. The majority that voted for Obama just didn't care about guns given #1.
3. Basing support for the RKBA on a crappy president as the only issue, first freedom - obviously is a failed strategy - only good for internet venting.
4. Realize this and adopt strategies to convince antigun folks like Obama that it is their interest to leave the issue alone or even to appreciate the RKBA.
5. If you don't want to expand support of the RKBA out of the social conservatives for some tribal identity hang-up, again you adopt a failed strategy.
So the world and the USA is not ending.
PS - it is ending. I just read that Starbucks profits dropped 97%. If Starbucks fails, who is going to care that EBRs are too expensive.
Then the laws would be undone - happened before.
If you want to pose an existential crisis, you need to lay it out. If you think that gun laws will lead to some revolution in this time of economic crisis - to be blunt you are flat out mistaken despite internet rhetoric. With the economy in the toilet, there will be NO support for further disrupting our future over, for example, a new AWB renewal.
I'm a little frustrated by the constant TEOTWAWKI predictions. The USA didn't end with the Brady Bill, etc. We soldiered on.
Here's what I said before:
1. The loss of McCain is based on Bush's incompetency and the economy tanking.
2. The majority that voted for Obama just didn't care about guns given #1.
3. Basing support for the RKBA on a crappy president as the only issue, first freedom - obviously is a failed strategy - only good for internet venting.
4. Realize this and adopt strategies to convince antigun folks like Obama that it is their interest to leave the issue alone or even to appreciate the RKBA.
5. If you don't want to expand support of the RKBA out of the social conservatives for some tribal identity hang-up, again you adopt a failed strategy.
So the world and the USA is not ending.
PS - it is ending. I just read that Starbucks profits dropped 97%. If Starbucks fails, who is going to care that EBRs are too expensive.
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This article shows that gun control is not even in the top agendas of most of the voters. Here are selected sentences from the article:
With that said, I don't know how 184% of people can demand a No 1 priority, but I am not so good at "media math," but the Dems appear to be concentrating on getting free stuff from the public coffers over trying to outlaw guns, but I am sure they won't mind if gun laws do come along for the ride.
With that said, I don't know how 184% of people can demand a No 1 priority, but I am not so good at "media math," but the Dems appear to be concentrating on getting free stuff from the public coffers over trying to outlaw guns, but I am sure they won't mind if gun laws do come along for the ride.
Obama is perhaps smart enough not to want to get into a 'knock 'em down drag 'em out' over an issue as devisive as gun control to start off his administration but he appears to be surrounding himself with old time liberal Democrats who may be more inclined to have him push the issue.
The 'Chicago crowd' - from whence he came -certainly is on record as being very anti gun and he 'owes them big time'; in addition the old time liberal Democrats like Kennedy, Shumer, et. al would gladly join them in pushing an anti gun agenda.
I certainly respect the opinion of those who have posted their opinions that gun control is going to be far down the list of issues to be worked on by our new president. Even more, I hope they're 100% correct.
The 'Chicago crowd' - from whence he came -certainly is on record as being very anti gun and he 'owes them big time'; in addition the old time liberal Democrats like Kennedy, Shumer, et. al would gladly join them in pushing an anti gun agenda.
I certainly respect the opinion of those who have posted their opinions that gun control is going to be far down the list of issues to be worked on by our new president. Even more, I hope they're 100% correct.
Nice thought....
I do wonder how many of the illegal street dealers do get prosecuted on Federal charges (engaging in the business without a license)? I think they ususally only face state charges (often felon in posession?) most of the time.
Or, more likely, if they do wind up facing Fed charges, some kind of plea bargin is made.
I am publically apologizing for statements I made in this post, which I have removed. A vigilant member was kind enough to inform me that they could be considered as skirting the line with regards to our L&CR rules and mission statement, something I had not even realized. My thanks for that, and my apologies to all for my failure to recognize in my own post the sort of things I am supposed to be looking for in others.
I do wonder how many of the illegal street dealers do get prosecuted on Federal charges (engaging in the business without a license)? I think they ususally only face state charges (often felon in posession?) most of the time.
Or, more likely, if they do wind up facing Fed charges, some kind of plea bargin is made.
I am publically apologizing for statements I made in this post, which I have removed. A vigilant member was kind enough to inform me that they could be considered as skirting the line with regards to our L&CR rules and mission statement, something I had not even realized. My thanks for that, and my apologies to all for my failure to recognize in my own post the sort of things I am supposed to be looking for in others.
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