Didn't Gunslinger get the initial email addresses from the people who posted on the thread before it was locked? After that, with no mention allowed on TFL, all correspondence was via email and a private BB and it became a private party not associated with TFL. Gunslinger could not read minds to know who to contact and I feel he did his best under the circumstances. Luckily I happened to get onto the thread in time, but a couple of sometimes lurkers and rare posters who I know were interested were invited and showed up for Sat. I don't think anyone else there knew Rod in Mo or Condition One, but I did. In my experience anyone who wanted to go and expressed a desire to do so was invited, provided it was because they wanted to go meet people and shoot. We were asked to take it off TFL and that was done. There were people who wanted to attend, knew it was going on, but could not attend for some reason. I think the pictures and stories were to let them know in mass what a great time they missed and to be sure and make arrangements to make it next year. In fairness to Rich, he asked that it not be associated with TFL, hence the name EOSM, not mentioning TFL. It was a party at Gunslingers house and was only open to invited guests. I suggest that if you missed the EOSM and want a BOFM (Beginning of Fall Meet) that you have one. Put it together. I am afraid that I can't make Calif., too many of my guns are illegal and I can't carry the ones that are, plus it is 2000 miles away, but if someone wants to do one in Tenn., Ga., Al., Va., or somewhere else count me in if you would. If you don't invite me that's okay, I won't get my feelings hurt or complain, I just hope I get invited to some others. Putting these things on is not easy nor cheap and after seeing how many people show up at pro-gun rallies and protests I don't think that too many would go through the trouble like Gunslinger and TerriD did to put a meet on.
Now that the EOSM is over
- Thread starter Rich Lucibella
- Start date
- Status
One other thing that people didn't realize is the fact Bill and Terri ate $800 for organizing the meet. To many people, $800 does not mean a lot but they aren't loaded like some of you folks. For them to open up their homes and eat a huge portion of the costs is an act of kindness that is rare in today's society.
Like Jeff stated, try organizing a get together at your home and see how out of hand it can get. Yes it could've been handled in a different manner. What's done is done. I for one do not need Rich apologizing for my attendance at the meet. Like many others, I had a great time. Rich I do understand that you are looking out for the overall well-being of The Firing Line.
Why didn't they charge more for the costs of meals, refreshments, etc? Simple, a ton of members stated they were attending and didn't show up. Rather then just say the heck with them, Bill and Terri still bought enough in case they showed up. Add in other factors that weren't thought of like ice, charcoal, etc and the costs skyrocketed.
Bill and Terri, sorry if I offended you by stating the financial affairs. I just didn't think it was right you guys had to eat that much of the costs.
[This message has been edited by ArmySon (edited September 19, 2000).]
Like Jeff stated, try organizing a get together at your home and see how out of hand it can get. Yes it could've been handled in a different manner. What's done is done. I for one do not need Rich apologizing for my attendance at the meet. Like many others, I had a great time. Rich I do understand that you are looking out for the overall well-being of The Firing Line.
Why didn't they charge more for the costs of meals, refreshments, etc? Simple, a ton of members stated they were attending and didn't show up. Rather then just say the heck with them, Bill and Terri still bought enough in case they showed up. Add in other factors that weren't thought of like ice, charcoal, etc and the costs skyrocketed.
Bill and Terri, sorry if I offended you by stating the financial affairs. I just didn't think it was right you guys had to eat that much of the costs.
[This message has been edited by ArmySon (edited September 19, 2000).]
Gunslinger
Moderator
I take full responsibility for the organization of the meet, the cancelation and what fall out that may be felt. I do not take full responbility for the good times and bonding among the members that occurred at the meet. Nor do I take credit for the success of the meet, which was quite successful. The credit for the camaraderie that was shared and the over all success belongs to the members. They made that possible and I thank them. If Joey or anyone else feels there is "blame" in anything with the event or it's orginazation I will gladly except that......no matter how misplaced or misguided I feel that may be.
Since an explainantion seems to be needed by some I will offer one. Not because I feel that one is owed but simply to (hopefully) put to rest any further misgivings that anyone may have.
The intent of the meet was for the memmbers that had came to know one another here on TFL, based on their post, the opportunity to meet in person and get to know the person behind the post so to speak. From the begining I have been careful to always refer to the meet as that, a meet. Never once did I refer to it as a party. To refer to it as a party would have infered, in my opinion, a get together for the purpose of drinking, shooting and raising Hell as being the primary reason for the event. That was not nor ever was the intent. The announcement of the meet had been on TFL for a period of several weeks and had, in fact, gone into part nine when we began experiencing certain problems with the post on the thread. That problem, again in my opinion, was partially caused by the fact that another well known firearms Internet discussion site had gone down for several days. Some of the members there, whom did not post here prior to that, became bored and decided to check out TFL. When they read of door prizes and what they felt was a "party" they expressed their desire to attend. I politely explained the intent of the meet and even suggested that if they wished to attend that perhaps that should begin posting here on TFL so that the other members may come to know them. That it seems was not good enough for some. They instead insisted that they be allowed to attend regardless if they were known to the members here or not. Once the post began to degenerate to the point of potentially harming the site I made the decision to make announcement that the meet was cancelled. I did this out of respect for Rich, the staff and to protect the integrity of the site. In other words, "I took the high road".
By that time several members had already expressed their desire to attend in various post on the thread(s). I immediately Emailed those members and informed them that the meet was in fact still on and encouraged them to Email as many others as they would like to invite them as well. I placed no restrictions on whom they may invite. They, the members that had already expressed their desire to attend, knew and understood the intent of the meet and there was no explaination needed from me as to whom they may invite. As he stated, Rich was on that mailing list as well and knew that the event was still planned.
You see there never was any clique of members. There never was any grand conspiracy by myself, members or staff. There never was an eletist group wishing to exlcude people whom we did not feel fit into our litttle clique. There was simply a group of people whom wished to meet as many of those people whom they had come to know on the site as possible in a social setting.
I never promoted the meet on any other sites nor to my knowledge did anyone else. In fact I am a registered member on twelve Internet firearms discussion sites. I, obviously, do not spend the time on them all as I do here on TFL. However, I did purposely begin visiting each of the sites regualarly in the wake of the cancelation looking for any fall out that may arise. I did this partially to answer any question that may needed addressed and also to invite anyone whom felt a genuine desire to come meet the people they knew from this site. There never was mention of the meet on any of those sites that I saw. And I looked pretty damn hard.
The members that attended this years meet posted photos and comments here not to flaunt. Frankly I find it more than a little suspicous that anyone would take it that way. They posedt the photos and comments because they wanted to share the expereince with those that, due to circustances, were unable to attend and to encourage others to attend next years meet. You see they were not trying to flaunt the fact that they were elete. They were trying to share and invite others for the next time. Sort of changes the perspective doesn't it?
Bottom line:
There is not, never was, nor do I expect ever will be a clique of elete on TFL.
There was no conspiracy among anyone.
There will be another meet next year and I and those that attended this year are looking forward to meeting a lot of new members. Perhaps there will be those next year that will accuse those members of being some sort of clique.
The meet was moved off of TFL, by me, to protect the integrity of the site so that TFL would maintain the high road that it is deservedly known for.
Lastly, anyone that had any question could have Emailed me at any time. That option is still and always will be available to anyone one this site as a member or lurker. My mailbox is always open as they say and answered.
I take responsibility for any slight that anyone feels they have been given. But I make no apologies.
------------------
Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Since an explainantion seems to be needed by some I will offer one. Not because I feel that one is owed but simply to (hopefully) put to rest any further misgivings that anyone may have.
The intent of the meet was for the memmbers that had came to know one another here on TFL, based on their post, the opportunity to meet in person and get to know the person behind the post so to speak. From the begining I have been careful to always refer to the meet as that, a meet. Never once did I refer to it as a party. To refer to it as a party would have infered, in my opinion, a get together for the purpose of drinking, shooting and raising Hell as being the primary reason for the event. That was not nor ever was the intent. The announcement of the meet had been on TFL for a period of several weeks and had, in fact, gone into part nine when we began experiencing certain problems with the post on the thread. That problem, again in my opinion, was partially caused by the fact that another well known firearms Internet discussion site had gone down for several days. Some of the members there, whom did not post here prior to that, became bored and decided to check out TFL. When they read of door prizes and what they felt was a "party" they expressed their desire to attend. I politely explained the intent of the meet and even suggested that if they wished to attend that perhaps that should begin posting here on TFL so that the other members may come to know them. That it seems was not good enough for some. They instead insisted that they be allowed to attend regardless if they were known to the members here or not. Once the post began to degenerate to the point of potentially harming the site I made the decision to make announcement that the meet was cancelled. I did this out of respect for Rich, the staff and to protect the integrity of the site. In other words, "I took the high road".
By that time several members had already expressed their desire to attend in various post on the thread(s). I immediately Emailed those members and informed them that the meet was in fact still on and encouraged them to Email as many others as they would like to invite them as well. I placed no restrictions on whom they may invite. They, the members that had already expressed their desire to attend, knew and understood the intent of the meet and there was no explaination needed from me as to whom they may invite. As he stated, Rich was on that mailing list as well and knew that the event was still planned.
You see there never was any clique of members. There never was any grand conspiracy by myself, members or staff. There never was an eletist group wishing to exlcude people whom we did not feel fit into our litttle clique. There was simply a group of people whom wished to meet as many of those people whom they had come to know on the site as possible in a social setting.
I never promoted the meet on any other sites nor to my knowledge did anyone else. In fact I am a registered member on twelve Internet firearms discussion sites. I, obviously, do not spend the time on them all as I do here on TFL. However, I did purposely begin visiting each of the sites regualarly in the wake of the cancelation looking for any fall out that may arise. I did this partially to answer any question that may needed addressed and also to invite anyone whom felt a genuine desire to come meet the people they knew from this site. There never was mention of the meet on any of those sites that I saw. And I looked pretty damn hard.
The members that attended this years meet posted photos and comments here not to flaunt. Frankly I find it more than a little suspicous that anyone would take it that way. They posedt the photos and comments because they wanted to share the expereince with those that, due to circustances, were unable to attend and to encourage others to attend next years meet. You see they were not trying to flaunt the fact that they were elete. They were trying to share and invite others for the next time. Sort of changes the perspective doesn't it?
Bottom line:
There is not, never was, nor do I expect ever will be a clique of elete on TFL.
There was no conspiracy among anyone.
There will be another meet next year and I and those that attended this year are looking forward to meeting a lot of new members. Perhaps there will be those next year that will accuse those members of being some sort of clique.
The meet was moved off of TFL, by me, to protect the integrity of the site so that TFL would maintain the high road that it is deservedly known for.
Lastly, anyone that had any question could have Emailed me at any time. That option is still and always will be available to anyone one this site as a member or lurker. My mailbox is always open as they say and answered.
I take responsibility for any slight that anyone feels they have been given. But I make no apologies.
------------------
Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
terridarri
New member
I just want to say to everyone that is hurt or has hard feelings about the meet and how things were handled after everything started going downhill, we handled things the best way we knew how to keep peace with TFL and not make bad scenes for what I thought was one of the best forums on the internet. When things started getting hard feelings and we decided not to go any further and shut it down all together, we started getting responses from members that decided to come from day one and a few that joined towards the last and some actually begged for us to continue on with it, so this was something we really wanted to do for everyone to get to know each other and just to have fun, I really felt bad to take this priviledge from everyone so talking along while to Slinger about continuing on and just trying to handle it different so we wouldn't have no more hard feelings this is the way we decided to do it by responding to the list that we had posted on TFL that was coming and then the few that contacted us after that and I should say there was probably 10 TFL members that showed that wasn't on that so called clique list from the beginning that contacted myself or Slinger to see if we was still having it. I am going to say we tried or did not exclude anyone that was TFL member, whether a newby or a veteren, and of course when I say newby I don't mean the ones that came over here from other forums in hopes of coming to just to win prizes, everyone was accepted if they seem to be a value to the meet and their main concern was to be part of this family. Just the short time I have been with TFL, this is probably one of the greatest meets there has been and its just because the members made it that way, sure it took many of days and hours of planning to get it done, as we worked on it for approx. 4 mos. but the members that showed a interest and also the ones that came is the ones that need to be honored and I will speak for each and everyone of us that I don't feel like none of us owe anyone a appoligy, everyone had there chance and yes there will be next year and I do hope each and everyone that wanted to come will be able to come next year looking forward to meeting new people and looking forward to getting back with the group that came this year, you all are a good bunch of people and are very honored to meeting and each and everyone.
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WHEN IT COMES TO FRIENDS THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT
[This message has been edited by terridarri (edited September 19, 2000).]
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WHEN IT COMES TO FRIENDS THE SKY IS NOT THE LIMIT
[This message has been edited by terridarri (edited September 19, 2000).]
Mike Irwin
Staff
Rich,
Twice you've used the word "subterfuge."
Are you sure that is the word you want to use?
That indicates outright malice and planning in an attempt to delude another party on the part of the actors.
From what I'm reading, and from what I remember, nothing could be farther from the truth.
The actions that were taken were done in an effort to protect TFL's status from some who apparently viewed this as the opportunity for a drunken brawl with firearms.
FWIW...
I never replied to the original message announcing the meet, as I knew I couldn't go.
I never received any e-mails regarding the rescheduled meet.
Yet, I still knew from other messages posted here that a TFL meet was going to take place in Missouri.
If it were truly subterfuge, wouldn't you agree that given that it was piss poor subterfuge?
I really think some decent people are being maligned for undertaking what they believed to be a good-faith effort.
My $0.02...
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited September 19, 2000).]
Twice you've used the word "subterfuge."
Are you sure that is the word you want to use?
That indicates outright malice and planning in an attempt to delude another party on the part of the actors.
From what I'm reading, and from what I remember, nothing could be farther from the truth.
The actions that were taken were done in an effort to protect TFL's status from some who apparently viewed this as the opportunity for a drunken brawl with firearms.
FWIW...
I never replied to the original message announcing the meet, as I knew I couldn't go.
I never received any e-mails regarding the rescheduled meet.
Yet, I still knew from other messages posted here that a TFL meet was going to take place in Missouri.
If it were truly subterfuge, wouldn't you agree that given that it was piss poor subterfuge?
I really think some decent people are being maligned for undertaking what they believed to be a good-faith effort.
My $0.02...
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited September 19, 2000).]
Right place, right time.
I expressed an interest back in April.
I was asked to visit.
I was lucky enough to make it there.
I had a great time.
And if at all possible, I'll be there next year.
But I think many are forgetting that this was only a start, a beginning of sorts.
Only about 30 adults and 3 or 4 children made it to Springfield.
Many more were 'invited', but for various reasons couldn't make it.
Their loss, our gain.
There will be more that will attend next year. But those of us that made it that first time - we'll always have that special bond that the FNGs will never have.
Once again - to 'Slinger and Terri: Thank you for opening your home, your wallet, and most of all, your hearts to all of us!
And thanks Rich for allowing us to discuss this OT. I, for one, miss the 'hobnobbing'...
(Don't annoy the crazy person...)
------------------
...defend the 2nd.
No fate but what we make...
I expressed an interest back in April.
I was asked to visit.
I was lucky enough to make it there.
I had a great time.
And if at all possible, I'll be there next year.
But I think many are forgetting that this was only a start, a beginning of sorts.
Only about 30 adults and 3 or 4 children made it to Springfield.
Many more were 'invited', but for various reasons couldn't make it.
Their loss, our gain.
There will be more that will attend next year. But those of us that made it that first time - we'll always have that special bond that the FNGs will never have.
Once again - to 'Slinger and Terri: Thank you for opening your home, your wallet, and most of all, your hearts to all of us!
And thanks Rich for allowing us to discuss this OT. I, for one, miss the 'hobnobbing'...
(Don't annoy the crazy person...)
------------------
...defend the 2nd.
No fate but what we make...
For those who did not attend, could not attend or were mislead as to would the meet happen or not, you have my condolences. I hope to see you next year.
But, what's done is done. Complaining and stiring up trouble now serves no useful purpose.
Bill and Terri graciously opened their home to a bunch of people they barely knew. They spent a great deal of time, effort and money to reach their goal. It started out as a grand idea only to be spoiled by strangers who didn't just want to attend, but DEMANDED to be invited. Things went downhill from there. EOSM was indeed cancelled. Bill and Terri were heartbroken. I know this because I was in contact with them when the decission was made. After several days of e-mail pleas and IM discussions, They decided to go ahead with the meet as planned. However, in order to avoid any further disruption of TFL, the planning continued in private.
I was fortunate enough to have been in on this from the begining. I helped convince Bill and Terri to continue after they had decided to call it quits. I was part of the planning. I am as much to blame as anybody else. Because I thought it was a good idea and I was proven right.
If you want to point fingers then you might as well point them at me or any one of the people who were there. While Bill and Terri took on the task of organizing this, all of us who were there were a part of it.
We made good friends, ate good food, shot good firearms and had a great time doing it.
I don't think any of us needs to apologize for that.
Hopefully you will be able to join us next year.
But, what's done is done. Complaining and stiring up trouble now serves no useful purpose.
Bill and Terri graciously opened their home to a bunch of people they barely knew. They spent a great deal of time, effort and money to reach their goal. It started out as a grand idea only to be spoiled by strangers who didn't just want to attend, but DEMANDED to be invited. Things went downhill from there. EOSM was indeed cancelled. Bill and Terri were heartbroken. I know this because I was in contact with them when the decission was made. After several days of e-mail pleas and IM discussions, They decided to go ahead with the meet as planned. However, in order to avoid any further disruption of TFL, the planning continued in private.
I was fortunate enough to have been in on this from the begining. I helped convince Bill and Terri to continue after they had decided to call it quits. I was part of the planning. I am as much to blame as anybody else. Because I thought it was a good idea and I was proven right.
If you want to point fingers then you might as well point them at me or any one of the people who were there. While Bill and Terri took on the task of organizing this, all of us who were there were a part of it.
We made good friends, ate good food, shot good firearms and had a great time doing it.
I don't think any of us needs to apologize for that.
Hopefully you will be able to join us next year.
T
TurtleNapper
Guest
Hi all, I just wanted to say that when I first got on this my husband (GRAYFOX)had a heart attack. He wanted me to tell the people that he cared about, talked to and the thing that he loves the most THE GUN PEOPLE what happened to him.I did. Then the WARM,NICE,FRIENDLY GUN PEOPLE sent emails, cards and I wanted to meet the man who really got grayfox out of the hospital bed and that was Rich.I was very glad that we went because it showed that there IS NICE WARM PEOPLE in the world. I still want to meet the rest and RICH. We had the best time and met the nicest people.
Hope to see you there next year.
THE TURTLENAPPER (MRS.GRAYFOX)
Hope to see you there next year.
THE TURTLENAPPER (MRS.GRAYFOX)
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Despite the fact that every attendee at the EOSM was emailed about this thread within an hour of it's appearance, Staff has been asked to remain on the sidelines, as this is an issue that is mine alone to deal with. I will respond as briefly as possible 
, first with a few counter-points and then with the real point.
Jeff-
There was no further mention allowed on TFL? Who ever stated that? I do have Senior Moments in my middle age, but I recall it differently. What I recall was Gunslinger canceling the event and Staff battling in the threads to support his withdrawal until we (Mykl?) finally closed the thread. I'll offer an apology if I'm wrong...heaven knows, I've done it before. But I don't recall what you describe.
"We were asked to take it off TFL and that was done....in fairness to Rich, he asked that it not be associated with TFL." Again, there's one worth exploring. Can you provide me a bit more substance to that statement? Your memory of the events is fine by me.
ArmySon-
What Bill and Terri did is exemplary and appreciated by all....attendees and non-attendees. This is not to diminish their financial contribution, but it was their party, advertised on the internet. I understand the contribution, though I don't quite understand the point. TFL had agreed to pick up the entire cost of the BBQ, while it was an open event. Should this have given us the right to publicize that the event was still on? Money has nothing to do with fair play.
Gunslinger-
You "never promoted the meet on any other sites nor to [your] knowledge did anyone else". Now I know I may owe an apology. I mean this seriously. But as I stated earlier, "At one point, a number of organizers (Sensop, I think this included you) had developed taglines to use on the other Boards to promote the event." Was there no comparison, here on TFL, of TFLEOSM taglines for emails and sites? Is this untrue? Sensop, will you not step in and respond?
"As he stated, Rich was on that mailing list as well and knew that the event was still planned." This is not true, Bill, as I stated earlier. Ask the Staff my astonishment when I found out after we had fought the public battles and closed the threads. Matters not to me. I'd informed you a week prior that I had a wedding to attend that weekend. The question is, how many others were inadvertently not notified?
"I made the decision to make announcement that the meet was cancelled. I did this out of respect for Rich, the staff and to protect the integrity of the site. In other words, 'I took the high road'." Bill, it's really unfair for you to put me in this position. I asked you, in so many words, not to get into this subject after your email to the group today. The fact is that, less than 2 hours before you "canceled" this event, you and I had a completely different agreement to protect TFL, didn't we? Remember the telephone conversation that resulted from your activities to "promote" the event without our knowledge? You wanna talk about that? Remember agreeing that you'd wait until we spoke in the AM to decide on the best course for TFL?
I'm sorry, Bill. No matter what happens, you're a friend. This is not about "you" or "me". It's simply about Fairness to the Members....all of 'em. They are, after all, "the site".
Mike-
"subterfuge, n. any plan or action used for escape or concealment; an evasion" Have I used the word incorrectly?
The point: It's real simple guys. Nobody needed to get their panties in a wad. All we needed to do was stand up for responsibility, state "we made a mistake in the rules for inclusion and you're not invited". We didn't need the subterfuge, even if we were only escaping from door prize hungry trolls. And we certainly didn't need to come back up and say, "Hey look what a great time we had at the EOSM which you thought was canceled".
We've had lots of other TFL shoots announced, sponsored and run here. We encourage 'em. One's being put together right now on George's Forum. Ask yourself one question, though: Why havent they had the same problems? Because AR15 is not on the fritz? I think not.
The point is that this site will never be a party to such [i}subterfuge[/i] again.
Best regards to all.
Rich Lucibella
, first with a few counter-points and then with the real point.Jeff-
There was no further mention allowed on TFL? Who ever stated that? I do have Senior Moments in my middle age, but I recall it differently. What I recall was Gunslinger canceling the event and Staff battling in the threads to support his withdrawal until we (Mykl?) finally closed the thread. I'll offer an apology if I'm wrong...heaven knows, I've done it before. But I don't recall what you describe.
"We were asked to take it off TFL and that was done....in fairness to Rich, he asked that it not be associated with TFL." Again, there's one worth exploring. Can you provide me a bit more substance to that statement? Your memory of the events is fine by me.
ArmySon-
What Bill and Terri did is exemplary and appreciated by all....attendees and non-attendees. This is not to diminish their financial contribution, but it was their party, advertised on the internet. I understand the contribution, though I don't quite understand the point. TFL had agreed to pick up the entire cost of the BBQ, while it was an open event. Should this have given us the right to publicize that the event was still on? Money has nothing to do with fair play.
Gunslinger-
You "never promoted the meet on any other sites nor to [your] knowledge did anyone else". Now I know I may owe an apology. I mean this seriously. But as I stated earlier, "At one point, a number of organizers (Sensop, I think this included you) had developed taglines to use on the other Boards to promote the event." Was there no comparison, here on TFL, of TFLEOSM taglines for emails and sites? Is this untrue? Sensop, will you not step in and respond?
"As he stated, Rich was on that mailing list as well and knew that the event was still planned." This is not true, Bill, as I stated earlier. Ask the Staff my astonishment when I found out after we had fought the public battles and closed the threads. Matters not to me. I'd informed you a week prior that I had a wedding to attend that weekend. The question is, how many others were inadvertently not notified?
"I made the decision to make announcement that the meet was cancelled. I did this out of respect for Rich, the staff and to protect the integrity of the site. In other words, 'I took the high road'." Bill, it's really unfair for you to put me in this position. I asked you, in so many words, not to get into this subject after your email to the group today. The fact is that, less than 2 hours before you "canceled" this event, you and I had a completely different agreement to protect TFL, didn't we? Remember the telephone conversation that resulted from your activities to "promote" the event without our knowledge? You wanna talk about that? Remember agreeing that you'd wait until we spoke in the AM to decide on the best course for TFL?
I'm sorry, Bill. No matter what happens, you're a friend. This is not about "you" or "me". It's simply about Fairness to the Members....all of 'em. They are, after all, "the site".
Mike-
"subterfuge, n. any plan or action used for escape or concealment; an evasion" Have I used the word incorrectly?
The point: It's real simple guys. Nobody needed to get their panties in a wad. All we needed to do was stand up for responsibility, state "we made a mistake in the rules for inclusion and you're not invited". We didn't need the subterfuge, even if we were only escaping from door prize hungry trolls. And we certainly didn't need to come back up and say, "Hey look what a great time we had at the EOSM which you thought was canceled".
We've had lots of other TFL shoots announced, sponsored and run here. We encourage 'em. One's being put together right now on George's Forum. Ask yourself one question, though: Why havent they had the same problems? Because AR15 is not on the fritz? I think not.
The point is that this site will never be a party to such [i}subterfuge[/i] again.
Best regards to all.
Rich Lucibella
Mike Irwin
Staff
Rich,
Yep, you're correct. I had thought that the word had a much more negative connotation to it.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Yep, you're correct. I had thought that the word had a much more negative connotation to it.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Rich, I will respond here only in the interest of letting the membership know that that I have read and acknowledged your last post. However, rather than attempt to address each issue which you have raised I think that in the interest of the site integrity of, "taking the high road", the rest of the conversation bewtween you and I would be better conducted in private for the betterment of the board. You have my Email address as well as my phone number. Feel free to contact me.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Rich...my understanding of the taglines was that they were there to pass the word on to people who frequent other forums who might not post often in GD or George's forum...that way they could follow the links if they were interested. I didn't think anyone was being encouraged to promote the event at other sites, just within TFL...but I could be mistaken (Lord knows it has happened more than once!).
You have made your point and I don't think we need to keep beating a dead horse. I would like to say, however, that nothing we did was done with maliciousness or with an intent to hurt anyone. Hindsight is, as they say, 20/20. It is easy to say now that "if only we had done this" or "we should have done that..." All we can do now is chalk it up to experience and learn from it...what I like to call a "teachable moment". In no way should this experience deter anyone else from trying to organize Meets, Shoots, whatever. We are too great a group of people to deny each other the experience of solidifying the bonds we have made here.
To anyone whose feelings were hurt or felt slighted, I sincerely apologize since it was not ever our intent to make this event exclusive or eliteist. Let's learn from this and move on.
Rich, I thank you for allowing us to discuss this situation.
You have made your point and I don't think we need to keep beating a dead horse. I would like to say, however, that nothing we did was done with maliciousness or with an intent to hurt anyone. Hindsight is, as they say, 20/20. It is easy to say now that "if only we had done this" or "we should have done that..." All we can do now is chalk it up to experience and learn from it...what I like to call a "teachable moment". In no way should this experience deter anyone else from trying to organize Meets, Shoots, whatever. We are too great a group of people to deny each other the experience of solidifying the bonds we have made here.
To anyone whose feelings were hurt or felt slighted, I sincerely apologize since it was not ever our intent to make this event exclusive or eliteist. Let's learn from this and move on.
Rich, I thank you for allowing us to discuss this situation.
WOW!
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com
Do it for the children...
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com
Do it for the children...
Miss Demeanors
New member
The only thing I want to add is basically what Ottergal said, the taglines we all used, were meant for everyone possible to hear about the meet. From what I remember we couldn't post it in General Discussion because it applied more to George's forum than in here. I know for a fact Gunslinger and Terri wanted everyone to be invited, that is the reason for the taglines. If someone had not seen any of those taglines and didn't know about the EOSM they must have not read all that much during that time, because just about everyone had it in their signature. I don't recall seeing this meet mentioned on any other forums either. Maybe at AR15 where a few were angry , it was then just a rant thread, never an invitation thread.
This was not a 'conspiracy' and for someone to think that is just absurd. This was a get together, a chance for all of us to meet face to face, the people we post with each day. It was all in fun and we all shared one main common interest, firearms. From newbies (like Otter, myself and Darths little girl) to vets like everyone else it didn't have limits on who could come and who could not UNTIL people from other boards just decided they wanted to come because of the door prizes.
Anyway, I still thank Gunslinger and Terri and all others who attended, it is something we will never forget. We all just wanted to share our time with you and know that we were thinking of many of you who couldn't attend.
This was not a 'conspiracy' and for someone to think that is just absurd. This was a get together, a chance for all of us to meet face to face, the people we post with each day. It was all in fun and we all shared one main common interest, firearms. From newbies (like Otter, myself and Darths little girl) to vets like everyone else
it didn't have limits on who could come and who could not UNTIL people from other boards just decided they wanted to come because of the door prizes.Anyway, I still thank Gunslinger and Terri and all others who attended, it is something we will never forget. We all just wanted to share our time with you and know that we were thinking of many of you who couldn't attend.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
This thread is at 107K. I'd like to thank everyone for their civility. I know it's a touchy subject for those who attended and for some of us on Staff. I've said what I had to say, and promised what I had to promise. If anyone sees a need for Part II, feel free.
Rich
Rich
- Status