Now is the time to motivate those who are disgusted with Partial Birth Abortions.

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What has happened to being responsible for your actions.The abortion question and the RKBA are interlocked.Abortion for not takeing responsability and us for trying to take responsabilty for our own lives.The goverment wants us not to be responsable and to look to them for all things.
If you have to look to the goverment for all things then we are slaves are we not?
My .02 for whats it worth.

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Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Bearing arms and respect for life are the two most jeopardized ideas in this country at this time, and they are linked. The constant efforts to shove a communal, pro-death agenda down our throats threatens to destroy everything we thought we stood for. Like it or not--and I don't--these are going to be pivotal for this country. As someone once said, there is a higher power than federal law. I once was naive enough to think that all the battles had been fought and won. I was wrong, and may well have to 'walk the walk' before this is over. I can see it now--an 'enemy of the people'.

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Unfortunately, most folks don't understand how interlocked right-to-life and RKBA are. They are both MORAL issues that define who we are as a nation and how, or rather if, we will follow the dictates of our founding charter, i.e., the Constitution. People with any intelletual honesty recognize that, in both cases, the Constitution has been hijacked to support a point of view not supported by original intent or by legal precedent. Even if you don't agree with the right-to-life view, you should see this as one of a handful of divisive issues which threatens to tear this country apart. Both issues will only become more so as the left pushes for the banning of private firearms ownership on the one hand, and taxpayer- supported abortion on the other. Both will cause people to openly rebel, even though they may be different groups.
 
And just what the hell does this subject have to do with RKBA? Some link some see? Don't extrapolate for me.

Moderators, please...
 
nralife, I disagree and think that this is still an inappropriate topic.

Say that we were talking about mandatory racial separation instead of partial-birth abortion. Now, some people think that racial separation is the only moral thing to do. Others (me) disagree. Let's say that for some reason that issue worked out to be one that could muster support for Dubya (an arguably worthy goal). Would it be okay to promote riling its supporters--on TFL?

No. Such a topic would be offensive to a number of individuals on the board. Nothing wrong with that, but it would also be divisive, antagonistic and ultimately destructive to the RKBA cause

I see parallels here and suggest that this thread be locked.
 
Mort

You and everyone here, I think, has missed what I was trying to say. I don't mind if this thread is locked. All I meant was that on OTHER NON FIREARM RELATED forums and at church or where ever, that if we had a chance we should get people motivated to vote for Bush because of this issue.

It should be easy to do. I think that even most abortion rights supporters can come together on the partial birth abortion ban. Darn, I'm just trying to be creative. What have you come up with lately?

Joe
 
Can't anyone see the connection between the right to life, the right to self defense, and that tired old notion of personal responsibility?
Destroy one and you've destroyed the rest.
 
Well the problem, Joe, is that many of the people on this board are hardcore abortion rights supporters who think that partial-birth abortion, while possibly repugnant and sub-optimal, are sort of being singled out as the "assault rifle" of abortions, if you will. The first step on a slippery slope, and I think you would agree. Incidentally, those abortion rights supporters are usually libertarians and, as such, are some of the most active and vocal of gun rights people. Why would you want to alienate gun rights supporters in an attempt to make others (gun rights alignment unknown) support Bush, who we know may not take a principled stand on anything, let alone something this controversial?
 
Mort,

I don't know how I can spell it out any simpler for you than I did in my last post. When I originally made this post, I requested that we not debate the merits or morality of abortion on this forum. I knew doing that was out of place here and would only get the thread locked.

If you or anyone else doesn't like my idea for getting people to vote for Bush, you are under no obligation to use it. I think your problem with my idea is that you are for Browne and not Bush and what I am doing bothers you because you don't like Bush. Honestly, I don't think that stopping this proceure is the begining of any slippery slope either.

If on the other hand, you want to turn my argument around, and use it to motivate Libertarians on other forums or wherever you are free to do that as well. If you think that partial birth abortions are acceptable and that others may find sympathy with your opinions, then maybe you can use this issue for your benefit to get people to vote Libertarian. After all, Bush is on the record as being against them

Do what you feel is right. That is all any of us can do.

Joe

[This message has been edited by nralife (edited July 10, 2000).]
 
nralife,
Nice try, Joe. But as usual the subject took on a life of its own.
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All,
1) The term “partial birth abortion” was created to indicate the process is
performed typically on a totally viable baby who is nearly completely born.
New concepts frequently require new terms. For example, I doubt that most
people fifty years ago had ANY idea of what the term “motherboard” would
mean today.

2) Christian is spelled with a “C” - not a “K”. This purposeful insult stops
now.

3) It is my understanding that Libertarians are divided on the issue of
abortion.
“Abortion is an issue where many libertarians are deadlocked. Many view it as
a simple extension of personal liberty, while others believe that the fetus has
individual rights of its own.”
http://www.libertarian.org/policy2.html#feminism

I know for a personal fact that Libertarians are divided on the issue of
abortion. Therefore the accusations that Libertarians are “for” or “against”
abortion are not accurate. (Interestingly enough, it seems to me that people
on each side of the question routinely accuse Libertarians of being on the
opposite side. :confused: )

Furthermore, I believe most Libertarians agree that the abortion issue does
not fall under the power of the federal government. Personally, I find nothing
in the U. S. Constitution which implies the federal government has any right
to make or enforce laws on the subject. (It may be there, but I haven’t
found it.) Therefore, most Libertarians, regardless of their pro-life or
pro-choice stand, want to stop any federal funding for abortions.

4) Personal opinion: I believe our RKBA is a more eminent problem than
abortion. Note that I did NOT say more important! If we lose our RKBA, we
lose the last and final check on our government. If we are to regain control
over our runaway, power-mad government, we must save our Right to Keep
and Bear Arms.
Without the Second Amendment, our chances of influencing the government
on other important issues are virtually eliminated - that is why I believe our
Second Amendment must be addressed first. It is not a question of morality
or priority. It is a question of force.

5) Again we have proven that we who believe in our RKBA can not unite on
other subjects. That is, perhaps, as it should be. However, at the request of
several members, in view of the unwarranted insults to members and their
views, considering the divisiveness of the subject and its inapplicability to our
Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the responsible ownership of firearms, I am
closing this thread.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 10, 2000).]
 
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