Now I'm Really Hot at Remington - A Rant

D

DarkStar

New member
The ISS, Integrated Security System is now starting to make its appearance, not just on the new 710 series, but the M700 as well. The ISS is, in effect, a keyed bolt locking system. Now you need a key to 'start' your Remington once you lock the action. Some will say, 'Taurus uses a locking system'. I don't by Taurus either. Beretta will do just fine.

I've been both up and down with Remington, always loyal the the Big Green, for the 700 was 'the' rifle. Heard the rumors of restrictions and the speculations of models out of production not returning. Read the words of those on this board saying Remington was just protecting itself, keeping out of the line of fire.

But not any longer do I believe... Remington is just another Smith and Wesson clone. They care not for the customer or the product, only their beloved bottom line.

***SIGH*** It's sad to know that my 2 new LTR's will be the last new Remington rifles I'll purchase. Is this PC 'key bolt' gimmick only going to be found on the 710 series and the lower end 700's? Something tells me the entire line will see this 'Smith and Wessonization', this caving into political thinking that will do Remington no good in the end. To appease the enemy with items like a 'keyed bolt' to me demonstrates that Remington places more value on comfort and business security than their customer base. And remember what Ben Franklin said about those who trade freedom for comfort... they'll deserve nor get either.

It's sad to see another American icon slowly sinking. The quality controls went first, which I can personally attest to on the rifles purchased this year, the PC changes to the shotgun lines, and now this. After all the problems I've experienced this year with my new Remington rifles and the time and money I've spent to correct them, this latest PC maneuver will spell the end of my association with Remington products. And like many years back when Bill Ruger turned traitor, I'm good to my word. It was 3 weeks ago when I finally got over Bill R. and purchased another Ruger...

Flame on...

Darryl


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"In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
 
why do you hate the key system so much?!?!?!?!?!

Big deal if someone wants to use it. Hmm would you rather they do something like this of their own violation. Or do you want them to wait till the goverment comes in and makes them. I think it is a good system that causes no probles and doesn't get in the way. I have it on my 597 and just don't use it.

How can you say they are a Smith and Wesson Clone. S&W sold out. Remington is covering thier own A$$ like any smart company would.

I won't flame you although I think you are inviting it with that post. Think about it. this is a good system for locking up a gun IF you choose to do so. Safer than a trigger lock and more reliable.

THey did not sell out. They are smart and I think I will go buy another Remington in the morning just to help them make up the loss of a gun owner who would rather act out of emotion instead of thinking things out.

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."
 
Anyone who wants to lock up his firearm can do it with a long shackle or cable padlock through the action. Grafting some lawya-proof hardware onto a time-proven design like the 700 is equivalent to the dumb changes that Winchester made to the best rifles in the world back in 1964. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...
Engineering changes for the sake of increased efficiency I could understand, but pandering to social prejudice, never.
Combined with the recent plummet of quality in Big Greeen, this tells me that I'd better hold onto my money...and my GOOD old 700's...and never let go.
Bye Bye, Remington.

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
Remington is just covering their butt and I can't blame them. The antis don't have to ban guns, just run the manufacturers out of business by draining their time and money with law suits. They don't have to win, just keep them tied up in court spending their profit and probably operating money on court/lawyer fees. The gun manufacturers are not big and powerful with huge amounts of money like the automobile or oil industry. Look at what happened to Bill Gates and Microsoft. With all his and his corporations vast sums of money, they lost. I know it seems like they are selling out but what is that saying? "Discretion is sometimes the better part of valor" or something along those lines.
 
I've been both up and down with Remington, always loyal the the Big Green, for the 700 was 'the' rifle.*********************

Damn, and all this time I thought that the Winchester Model 70(both pre-64 and the newer classic) was the "Rifle". Remington really is ticking a lot of people off with their PC crap. First the no PSS and VSS to non-LEO's and now this. Oh well, I've got a couple of their products but I now spend money on Weatherbys and Winchesters, maybe a Savage or three, even a Sako, but no more Rems. Semper Fi...Ken
 
Look over a Sako when you get the chance. Very nice workmanship. Remington has some other issues going on as well with shotgun mags.
 
EchoFiveMike, That story about no PSS or VSS to civilians was BS. It was one of those internet rumors that starts up and everyone beleived becuase "they saw it on the net from a friend" I have checked with remington and two of their major distributors. They are and will continue to sell both of those rifles to civilians. So please stop passing that lie around. It will only cause problems.

I am going to Kieslers to get either an LTR or a PSS tonght. I just can't decide which

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."
 
I contacted Remington Customer Service (1-800-243-9700) on 26 October OO (that's a number I know by heart :( ) I wanted to re-verify the PSS/LTR sales question. I was again informed that the PSS/LTR were always considered to be LE weapons and were sold through LE distributors. If the distributor chose to sell the weapons to a 'civilian' after the fact, it was their choice. Remington had no policy in that regard.

It was that flip-flop that created the rumors and higher sticker prices on some of the rifles.

Darryl
 
My God people calm down. The locking system on the triggers can either be used or not. It is your choice the same as a seat belt. Do you people who say that a seat belt is not for you, boycott any car with one because they provide it with the car? This locking system is great IMO. You don't HAVE to use it. But if you want to lock the trigger you just insert your key and lock it. We are talking about the "J-lock" system right? From the posts I've read it sounds like it. I would be mad if it was the only way to operate the rifle, but it's not. You can leave the lock off and operate the safety just like any other rifle.
 
Problem is, apparently some of the Remington locks can activate without the key. Someone on the shotgun forum posted a blurb by John Farnam where one of the Remington integral safety locks was activated (locking the gun) without the key being used. Not good on a defense gun. :(

There are plenty of reasons to boycott Remington besides the ISS -- just look at the non-Police 870 shotguns....

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
HukeOKC, I think one of my problems with this whole ISS deal is that it's built into the bolt, operated by a key from the rear of the bolt. The specifics of the operation are still unknown, such as, will the ISS relock whenever you close the bolt or can it be 'turned off'?

I saw an ad over the weekend for a rifle maker, and they were showing a system very close to Remington's ISS. I can't remember who it is, but it was a euro-rifle as I recall. My first thought was, 'not on my 700's'... yea, right.

If you need or are required to use a trigger lock, get one. Buy a safe, I did. Do not mess around with the engineering of the 700 action to make some points with the anti-freedom types.

Darryl
 
My mistake then. I am not aware of this locking system. The one I was talking about is the one that you can use a J-key to lock the safety button. That's why I asked, I was afraid it might be a different system. I love Remington's firearms and always recommend them, but I'll have to see if I can find one with this system before I can make up my mind.
 
I'm getting sick of how so many of us are being so US AGAINST THEM within OUR OWN GROUP.
You guys are LOOKING FOR ENEMIES within our own ranks.
STOP IT!
JUST STOP IT!

Them enemy is out there - not in here.
S&W, Colt, now REMINGTON?!?!
Get REAL guys!
Turn you tantrums against HCI.

You guys keep this up you wont have ANY company left to support... Because someone somewhere down the line will do some little thing that you deem as SELLING out.
"DONT BUY CORBON AMMO - They loaded it SLOWER SO IT IS SAFER!!! THEY SOLD US OUT!!!"
Gawd.
Ever heard of the little boy who cried wolf?
Remington is a GUN COMPANY.

With all these types of rants - we might as well throw in the towel because you guys are tearing down the walls from the inside.

MAKES ME SICK.
 
Them enemy is out there - not in here.
S&W, Colt, now REMINGTON?!?!
Get REAL guys!
Turn you tantrums against HCI.*************

Hardly tantrums. I choose not to buy Remingtons product now that they have made a PC decision to include this silly assed system with their model 700 rifle. I also don't like the fact that they choose to sell to LE distributors a variety of firearms that are completely legal. This just jacks up the price. I don't stand for this stupid artificial inflation of prices. I don't like it and I'm not going to buy it. Plain and simple. I am not engaging in subversive acts against them, like I do with the anti gun scum, so what's your beef? This is how we, the consumer, get companies to change their views, what would you have us do? I don't consume any of the crap the anti's spew, so I have to use more overt things to attck them. This is tame. Semper Fi...Ken
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by George Dickel at Work:
The antis don't have to ban guns, just run the manufacturers out of business by draining their time and money with law suits. They don't have to win, just keep them tied up in court spending their profit and probably operating money on court/lawyer fees. [/quote]

Excuse me, but that sounds like a problem with our legal system that needs to be fixed. NOT a manufacturing problem that they are addressing. So, what you're saying is that we should just bow down to the system the anti's have in place. If we do that, we've already lost the fight before it starts. It is time for Remington and others to stand up and "JUST SAY NO" to all the BS they are agreeing to these days. And I love Remington. I just feel they took that first step down the 'slippery slope'. And as far as our complaining about a company doing what we don't like, if you don't know you have a problem, you can't fix it. So, from a customers point of view, if they don't like what Remington has done, we won't buy those products. And guess what? That's our right. If we don't like a company kowtowing to the government (HUD, whoever) then IT'S UP TO US THE CUSTOMER TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Like not buying S&W. According to some here, we should all just shut up about what we don't like and take it. After all, the anti's win if we speak our minds about what we don't like. Well guess what? The anti's win if you sit on your hands and accept what companies like S&W did. So, be quiet and accept what a company does, because they are protecting their assests and we should support that? That would be like buying a Corvair because CHEVY SAYS ITS SAFE (they did, you know). PLEAASSSEEE!!! My .02 worth.
 
I don't have a problem with the lock, AS LONG AS IT'S PASSIVE, OPTIONAL, AND MECHANICAL. That being said, here's the way I feel: the lock doesn't bother me if if requires me to operate it (the lock) to make the gun locked. In other words, if I choose to not use the lock, I don't want it to lock automatically. I also want it to be optional, vs. mandatory that I use it. Also, AND THIS IS A BIG ONE!!!

I don't like the new electronic ignition that Remington is trying to sell. Forget reloading, and forget using it after a HEMP (High ElectroMagnetic Pulse) and forget using it if you dunk it in water (?) and what if there's a chip inside with a receiver that can shut down the system if sent the correct signal from Remington, Janet Reno, you name it. Forget that mess.

BTW Sako is putting a passive lock on their guns too.
 
FrontSight!, I posted this on 22 Oct 00 regarding the Etronx rifle in post http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/004191.html

---Also sounds like a great gun when Remington is standing up at the next photo shoot with the liberal gun grabbers: 'Look, it has a key! You can turn it OFF! We now have the technology, all others are obsolete!'

I'm not being sarcastic, with the way Remington's management is going, they're going to pull a 'Smith and Wesson' soon.

I'd have to agree that this is sort of redundant as the mechanical systems and designs exceed most shooters abilities. And wait until it quits working with no warning during a benchrest match and you have to send your rifle to Taiwan or Tai-Something for repairs/replacement parts because Remington doesn't have a clue how it works.

If Remington wanted to make me happy (they don't) they'd bring back the VSSF in .308 and save the R and D money for better finishes and machinery that can properly drill and tap a M700 receiver---


Interestingly enough, the 2 Etronx rifles I've seen didn't have the ISS bolt lock. Perhaps that's the way it will head, Etronx or a M700 with bolt locks and other assorted liability reducing devices...

I hope it isn't so.

Darryl
 
Gent's, another lil tidbit on the new lock device is the firing pin is also different than ALL the old unit's........about a 1/4" longer.
Guess we'll see a run up in prices on the old units from here on out.........
If you want a builder, best get while the gettin's good.......... :(
 
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