Not the first post I wanted to make

If you officially got "extra duty" you had to get an Article 15. Courts-martial don't really hand out extra duty as punishment.

Your chain of command can't just hand out extra duty without an article 15.
 
/me nods...I'm pretty sure I did...I know I remember the extra duty and the ass chewing by my 1sgt...I'm 99% sure I did...the unit that I was with was in the process of disbanding at that time as well...there was a lot of extra work for me...I know I didn't get a court martial..
 
cube zombie:

I still think that you did NOT get an Article 15. Why?

Do you remember being standing in an office either at parade rest or attention, and hearing the following phrase:

"I am considering imposing punishment for the following incident: In that you did, on or about xx-xx-xxxx, did alter an official identification card, which is the property of the United States Government, in order to commit an illegal act. This is in violation of Article 134, UCMJ."

(NOTE: That's an approximation; there would probably have been more than one specification involved, too--and the citation would probably have been different.)

You were also read that you had three choices: 1. To accept the Article 15, as written; 2. To present matters of extenuation or mitigation, or: 3. To demand trial by court-martial. You would have been given 72 hours to decide what to do; you would have gone to see a JAG officer, received counsel, and would have been back to the Commander or his/her representative in three days.

If you don't remember any of that, you did NOT receive an Article 15.

vranasaurus: In a couple of my units, when soldiers screwed up in a minor way there was usually a meeting of the minds, so to speak--the immediate supervisor, the Platoon Sergeant, 1SG, and maybe even the Commander--but usually when the officers got involved, someone got hosed.

We would discuss the offense, and if the soldier was not a habitual screwup, and was just guilty (at the time) of "stupidity at the enlisted level", we would OK it with the 1SG, and then engage the young soldier in some "extra training"--which would consist of some onerous task or series thereof for about one week.

Of course, we had the craphouse lawyers, who said "Hey! You can't give me extra duty without an Article 15!" I would sit my soldiers down and explain patiently, "You're right, we can't. We can take this straight to the Commander's office. You get the Article 15. Then, you get flagged for promotion, reduced in rank, have to make the rank again, lose money, and work your butt off for at least a week, maybe two. You want to go that route? It's up to you." We never had someone demand an Article 15 in lieu of NCO-imposed extra training.

:D
 
I think the delay is a tactic to hope you go away....

from what I read of what happened there is no way you are in trouble and can not legally buy or own a gun. You would remember being in court and getting convicted of something, I hope.

N.C.'s 'sherif's approval' crap is a left over from the 'old south' and Jim Crow' days. To answer your 2nd question, yes get a CWP from N.C., which will actually I think require you go through the sherif too...but is the easiest thing to do.
 
vranasaurus: In a couple of my units, when soldiers screwed up in a minor way there was usually a meeting of the minds, so to speak--the immediate supervisor, the Platoon Sergeant, 1SG, and maybe even the Commander--but usually when the officers got involved, someone got hosed.
Click to expand...

AR 27-10 (Military Justice) explicitely states that extra training is the most effective way to handle minor disciplinary infractions. However the difference between extra training and extra duty is that the extra training must directly relate to the infraction or deficiency while extra duty does not have to.



If they called it extra duty it would have been imposed by Article 15 if they called it extra training or corrective action it could have been imposed by the first NCO in the chain of command. I know stuff gets "taken care of" but it is generally not called extra duty unless imposed under article 15.

By the time CID gets involved you can bet your ass that the company CO is well aware of the situation. CID generally only investigates felony type offenses.
 
I don't know the situation there, but in Illinois, if there is no rosponse from NICS within three days, the transaction can proceed anyway. A late response will be noted on the 4473 AFTER the transaction.
 
From my time as a US Army Company Commander, any time the MPs or CID are involved in anything, they fill out a report. To complete this report, the commander must then fill out the actions taken; punishment, reprimand, etc. The MPs then file it away in the dark recesses of government file cabinets. I can't remember the form number, it was one of many I quickly filled out and signed as a signature machine for the company.

Then I've seen on background checks for Arms, Ammo, and Explosives access requests the smallest things, like Article 15s for minor offenses. So it must reside on file for a while somewhere. As a commander, though, I could always mark 'suitable' based upon my knowledge of the person.

And, yes, "extra duty" can only be imposed as a punishment after an Article 15, and not by NCOs. I got into a few NCOs for doing this as it took away my power base. However, I did understand the value the "corrective training" had to offer before an issue was brought to my attention. We then got our terminology straight.

So to sum this up: this is possible as I see it. Not exactly legal IMO, but that's not my area of expertise.

Just my 0.02.
 
Just wanted to update this..I got the disposition from Ft Belvior and it showed I was never arrested and was sent back to my unit and received a written reprimand...Also the letter from the CID archives said this wasn't within the policy for this to have been reported so they are sending a letter to the FBI to have it removed from NCIC..

Big thank you to jbriggs who answered questions for me on this and pointed me in the right direction..Thanks to everyone else who responded as well..

I picked up my permits to purchase this morning and then went and picked up my S&W M&P .45..Just got done cleaning it :-)
 
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