Not Happy with Samco Global Arms Inc

[jag2]

C&R holders may not mail or receive by mail any firearm other than a rifle or shotgun.
Huh? Isn't USPS considered mail? Sure looks like the same guy to me. I think the majority of my C&R pistol have come via USPS.

 

[carguychris]

Isn't USPS considered mail? Sure looks like the same guy to me. I think the majority of my C&R pistol have come via USPS.

Perhaps the sender isn't familiar with U.S. Postal regulations, namely the Domestic Mail Manual. Some FFLs may not be familiar with the regulations because they are outside the purview of the BATFE and therefore off the proverbial radar.

The relevant regs are here:

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/601.htm#12_0

The relevant sections:

12.1.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 12.1.4 and 12.1.6, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 12.1.1b, and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 12.1.1h.
b. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 12.1.1b which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest may be accepted for mailing without regard to 12.1.3 through 12.1.6.
c. <Omitted - concerns airguns>
d. Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C.
e. Mailers are also subject to applicable restrictions by governments of a state, territory, or district.
12.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 12.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, a licensed importer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties: <list of officials omitted>
<12.1.4 omitted>
12.1.5 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

<emphasis mine>

Note that Sections 12.1.3 and 12.1.5 conspicuously do not include licensed collectors, i.e. C&R licensees. IOW most C&R firearms may not be mailed to or from a licensed collector unless they are (a) antiques or (b) "certified by the curator of a... museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest". The latter category does not generally include firearms that became C&R-eligible by default, due to their age, military provenance, and/or inclusion within a "catch-all" category in the BATFE C&R book.

FWIW the DMM defines an "antique" using a definition similar to other firearms laws, i.e. guns made before 1/1/1899, black powder muzzleloaders, and certain replicas. The phrase "firearms capable of being concealed on the person" is defined to include NFA SBRs and SBSs.

 

[jag2]

All I can tell you is the "sender" is a reasonably large seller that sends out a couple of hundred guns a month (admittedly not all are C&R) and they are always in one of those special one price USPS boxes. Its not like he could fly under the radar so I'm guessing his local post office knows whats going on.

 

[Cheapshooter]

Quote: Cheapshooter The overnight requiremsnt must be a recent thing.

It's been a requirement for at least six years.

So then has the cost of overnight gone up nearly three fold then?

I just checked my records to see for sure. Unless things have changed in two years, shipping on my last C&R handgun was $17. Like I said, things may have changed, that was 2/24/2011.

 

[dogtown tom]

jag2

C&R holders may not mail or receive by mail any firearm other than a rifle or shotgun.

Huh? Isn't USPS considered mail?

Yes....anytime you ship via USPS you MAIL the package.
When using a common carrier (UPS/FedEx) you SHIP the package.

IE......you cannot MAIL via UPS or FedEx.

Cheapshooter ....So then has the cost of overnight gone up nearly three fold then?

It has increased in the last six years, but so has the price of fuel. Not close to "three fold".
Remember, UPS/FedEx don't do "Flat Rate' like USPS, their rates are dependent on weight and distance. Some shippers get discounted rates from UPS/FedEx due to the volume of packages. This is why some can ship Overnight or Next Day for less than others.

If you think you are being ripped off just use the shipping calculator at UPS or FedExes website.....just remember to include insurance and adult signature.

 

[dogtown tom]

jag2 All I can tell you is the "sender" is a reasonably large seller that sends out a couple of hundred guns a month (admittedly not all are C&R) and they are always in one of those special one price USPS boxes. Its not like he could fly under the radar so I'm guessing his local post office knows whats going on.

Typically USPS/UPS/FedEx clerks do not know every law, regulation or tariff that is on the books.

Neither do gun dealers.

 

[carguychris]

[UPS and FedEx rates have] increased in the last six years, but so has the price of fuel. Not close to "three fold". Remember, UPS/FedEx don't do "Flat Rate' like USPS, their rates are dependent on weight and distance.

FWIW I recently made the mistake of using UPS to ship a C&R handgun. It wound up costing almost double what it cost me to ship a heavier gun about the same distance 3 years ago, and although I don't have the receipt handy, IIRC I got hit with a ~$7 fuel surcharge and a ~$6 "Rural Area Delivery Fee" (or something like that).

This is the last time I ship UPS. If I sell any more C&R handguns, they will be shipped via USPS by Dogtown Tom.

 

[Fox84]

This purchase was internet and I never saw what the shipping would be. If I buy again it will be over the phone and shipping prices will be upfront. I'am very happy with the P38, so what the heck.
Fox84 out.