PsychoSword
Moderator
Yep, ol' Skeletor the bagman in 83-84 with the botulism, VX, anthrax, sirin.... it just never ends.
North Korea has the BOMB
- Thread starter Ozzieman
- Start date
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Do you have a source of proof for this apparent statement of fact or is it just another conspiracy theory?PsychoSword said:
At the time Rumsfeld shook Hussein's hand, he was the enemy of our enemy. When was North Korea ever the enemy of our enemy?
Did I understand that Clinton and Albright were promised N. Korea wouldn't use that stuff to make a bomb........Go figure they changed their minds.... 
I read that the majority of civilians in that so called country are starving to death as the government builds "The Bomb". We must guess that the government of such a fine nation is doing this to protect itself and it's starving civilians right? WRONG.........
They are trying to use it as a game chip in a big boys poker game........seems a little dangerous on their part...... Glad we have a president that isn't going to let the little puke country into the game without explaining the rules.
and it is old news........but the networks and the rags were a little slow for stories........ same old same old.......
I read that the majority of civilians in that so called country are starving to death as the government builds "The Bomb". We must guess that the government of such a fine nation is doing this to protect itself and it's starving civilians right? WRONG.........
They are trying to use it as a game chip in a big boys poker game........seems a little dangerous on their part...... Glad we have a president that isn't going to let the little puke country into the game without explaining the rules.
and it is old news........but the networks and the rags were a little slow for stories........ same old same old.......
PsychoSword
Moderator
Is he not on the news constantly? Are there any reporters that have reported anything but the offical line about him? I just can't imagine that he was the only one to provide any type of help to North Korea.
Just because it hasn't been uncovered doesn't mean it didn't happen. How much do you think goes on behind the scenes that never gets reported by the mainstream press or otherwise?
Apparently Rumsfield thought they were when he was on the board of directors of ABB who transfered the nuclear material and technology to them. Oops. The Secretary of Defense is the terrorist.
Does it not bother you that the democrats and republicans are always on the same team when it comes to these key issues?
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
That answers my question very well - another conspiracy theory.PsychoSword said:
Here's a couple of "reliable" sources for that fact:PS said:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/022403nkorea.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0221-08.htm
http://www.global-conspiracies.com/rumsfeld_was_on_abb_board_during_deal.htm
Shall we just pass over the fact that this transfer took place during the Clinton administration and that this transfer wouldn't have happened if not for the '94 deal that allowed N.Korea to build a light water reactor in exchange for ceasing it's nuclear weapons program?
Taking your question at face value, the answer is: Yes, it does bother me, when it happens. In this case, there is no evidence that the Ds & Rs were conspiring.PS said:
I'm just a little puzzled at how you figure that Rumsfeld was a key figure in the nuclear reactor deal during the Clinton administration...
PsychoSword
Moderator
Theory is part of detective work. For some strange reason when theory is mentioned in politics the whole "conspiracy" thing always gets injected. How can this always be? Programming.
You didn't notice my link above? Funny how you chose those links to try and disprove what is well known fact. Rumsfield was on the board and he approved the transfer. Please don't get hung up on all this "conspiracy" thought. Conspiracy is part of life, there's no need to become paranoid against the idea.
Here we go back to the old left vs right republican vs. demo arguement again. This is why we never get anywhere. So are you calling Clinton an "enabler" of Rumsfield?
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Neither are "enablers" as both are "annointed". All of us who posess genuine Illuminati Decoder Rings know they fight like cats and dogs in public; but then they return to the Citadel and take long moonlight strolls together.
Ultimately, if a problem exists, we can pretty much be certain an unknown conspiracy created it. Public fact, while appearing to explain many failings of the Human Race, is after all, pure illusion.
Rich
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
He *was* on the ABB board. Whether he approved the transfer or not is a matter of opinion.PsychoSword said:
Your opinion is that he approved the transfer. I believe that there is a reasonable doubt as to whether or not he even knew about the transfer. Even if he did know about it, there is no evidence that he voted to approve it!
Would Rumsfeld have been able to single-handedly provide N.Korea with nuclear reactor plans and materials if Clinton hadn't made the '94 agreement?PS said:
Rich Lucibella said:
I can just picture it! PsychoSword
Moderator
How could he possibly not have even known about it? That is beyond laughable.
So then you are calling Clinton an enabler of Rumsfield.
PsychoSword
Moderator
The company also opened an office in the country's capital, Pyongyang, and the deal was signed a year later in 2000. Despite this, Mr Rumsfeld's office said that the de fence secretary did not "recall it being brought before the board at any time".
In a statement to the American magazine Newsweek, his spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said that there "was no vote on this". A spokesman for ABB told the Guardian yesterday that "board members were informed about the project which would deliver systems and equipment for light water reactors".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html
In a statement to the American magazine Newsweek, his spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said that there "was no vote on this". A spokesman for ABB told the Guardian yesterday that "board members were informed about the project which would deliver systems and equipment for light water reactors".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html
Rich Lucibella
Staff
LAK-
I see where you're going. Proof Positive....yup.
Rich
I see where you're going. Proof Positive....yup.
Rich
Psycho...
Fact. Rumsfeld held a 'non executive' position on ABB's board during the Clinton years. As a 'non executive' it would be interesting to know whether that position was honorary window dressing for ABB and, if so, how much he was really in the loop regarding decision making of this nature. Your post makes him out to be the single handed villian here. More information on ABB's administrative structure and decision making matrix would be quite illuminating.
Fact. Light water reactor technology was 'sold' to the North Koreans during the Clinton admin. in an attempt to encourage the RNK to drop their nuke weapons ambitions.
A frequent, rigid international inspection regime was part of the deal, IIRC.
Fact. ABB supplied much of the technology for those reactors under a Clinton arranged government contract.
Fact. Rumsfeld left ABB to join the Bush admin.
Fact. The North Koreans refused inspection of the installed facilities almost as soon as they came online,
thus renieging on the deal. IIRC, this happened before Bush became pres.
Fact. Our 'labeling' North Korea as part of the 'axis of evil' only came after their refusal to allow mandated inspections, their continued pursuit of nuke weapons technology and their steadfast refusal to paticipate as good faith members in multi-lateral negotiations regarding a nuclear free Korea. Bush's opinion seemed to be 'enough carrots, time for the stick'. It may be ironic that Rumsfeld is one of the folks holding the stick, but its not nefarious.
Your posts cite 'news' stories that somewhat hinge on unnamed sources and are written with a clearly anti-Bush/anti-American bias. They tend to be long on tarring Bush/Rumsfeld and short on placing the responsibility for this crisis on the leadership of the RNK and their insane desire for nuclear brinksmanship. They don't seem to be news as much as lengthy editorials disguised as news. Also suspect is the habit of damning the media in several posts as being controlled by the central banks, then freely quoting from it when it seems to support your positions.
Rumsfeld is unpopular with a lot of folks for a lot of reasons. Some complaints are justified. He's blunt, in your face, arrogant and unapologetic. In some circles, he's the cause of global warming to genital warts and everything in between. Your posts indicate that you're one of these folks. Its apparent, though, that you haven't made a believable case that he's responsible for the problems that we face on the Korean penninsula. That responsibility lies with the foolish incompetence of the Clinton foriegn policy team and the exploitation of same by a psychotic RNK regime.
Fact. Rumsfeld held a 'non executive' position on ABB's board during the Clinton years. As a 'non executive' it would be interesting to know whether that position was honorary window dressing for ABB and, if so, how much he was really in the loop regarding decision making of this nature. Your post makes him out to be the single handed villian here. More information on ABB's administrative structure and decision making matrix would be quite illuminating.
Fact. Light water reactor technology was 'sold' to the North Koreans during the Clinton admin. in an attempt to encourage the RNK to drop their nuke weapons ambitions.
A frequent, rigid international inspection regime was part of the deal, IIRC.
Fact. ABB supplied much of the technology for those reactors under a Clinton arranged government contract.
Fact. Rumsfeld left ABB to join the Bush admin.
Fact. The North Koreans refused inspection of the installed facilities almost as soon as they came online,
thus renieging on the deal. IIRC, this happened before Bush became pres.
Fact. Our 'labeling' North Korea as part of the 'axis of evil' only came after their refusal to allow mandated inspections, their continued pursuit of nuke weapons technology and their steadfast refusal to paticipate as good faith members in multi-lateral negotiations regarding a nuclear free Korea. Bush's opinion seemed to be 'enough carrots, time for the stick'. It may be ironic that Rumsfeld is one of the folks holding the stick, but its not nefarious.
Your posts cite 'news' stories that somewhat hinge on unnamed sources and are written with a clearly anti-Bush/anti-American bias. They tend to be long on tarring Bush/Rumsfeld and short on placing the responsibility for this crisis on the leadership of the RNK and their insane desire for nuclear brinksmanship. They don't seem to be news as much as lengthy editorials disguised as news. Also suspect is the habit of damning the media in several posts as being controlled by the central banks, then freely quoting from it when it seems to support your positions.
Rumsfeld is unpopular with a lot of folks for a lot of reasons. Some complaints are justified. He's blunt, in your face, arrogant and unapologetic. In some circles, he's the cause of global warming to genital warts and everything in between. Your posts indicate that you're one of these folks. Its apparent, though, that you haven't made a believable case that he's responsible for the problems that we face on the Korean penninsula. That responsibility lies with the foolish incompetence of the Clinton foriegn policy team and the exploitation of same by a psychotic RNK regime.
we have yet to see any demonstrable proof that NK actually does have nuclear weapons. they could be ruffling the feathers, who knows. it is probable that the intellegence community has a handle on this, we will never know what goes on behind the scenes. until NK conducts a public test to prove to the world they have a nuke, we are relying on the words of the North Korea Foreign Ministry. they could be bluffing. they could be setting themselves up as a scapegoat for a nuclear terror attack. how can we average joes ever know?
same with rumsfeld. maybe he is personally responsible for north korea having a nuclear bomb. maybe he built it for them. maybe he's a patsy. i can tell you one thing: you won't find your answer by google searching on the internet. disinformation comes from ALL sides.
same with rumsfeld. maybe he is personally responsible for north korea having a nuclear bomb. maybe he built it for them. maybe he's a patsy. i can tell you one thing: you won't find your answer by google searching on the internet. disinformation comes from ALL sides.
PsychoSword
Moderator
It certainly would, but we'll never know. Will we? ABB claims he knew full well. His publicist denies that.
It's all just a big coincidence. Rumsfield in the middle of giving WMD's to two of the "axis of evil" then becoming our Secretary of Defense just before and during this war against same. Sounds like a Tom Clancy thriller.
I believe that's why they did it under Clinton. To make it look convincing, "oh the Clinton administration is just a bunch of naive liberals that would give nukes to NK". And the "right wing" believes that because it gives them ammo against the evil liberals.
Are you perhaps insinuating that Rumsfield left ABB because he was disgusted by the deal? According to his own publicist he didn't even know about it. There's lots of other interesting facts. Like...Cheney CEO'd Haliburton until 2000. And...Haliburton has profited in the billions since the war on terror started.
And did that come as a surprise to anyone with an I.Q. above room temperature? Was there anybody who believed that they would stick to the deal even at the time?
There was that whole Korean War thing, and them being technically at war with the South (and maybe us?) for the past 60 years but that's a side issue...
Irony is how we give nuclear technology to Authoritarian Communist dictatorships, but if an Islamic Republic such as Iran tries to develop them on their own we invade...
What's even sicker, is how Israel was caught by Germany selling weapons to Iran.
Because it's like the old Westerns where the evil sheriff throws down the gun in front of the 14 year old boy. Come on boy! Pick it up! It's obvious what they're doing here.
Much of the mainstream media is controlled by the same giant entities. They still have to report the news though. They just put their spin on it. But it's not like they can control everything that gets out. Even from their own media. Hardly. And, after all, they want to continue this phony tit for tat left vs. right illusion up to keep us dumbed down. Which is in reality is slavery inc. vs. slavery inc.
Really? I guess he wasn't Saddam's bagman and wasn't on the board of ABB.
Someone's mannerism is hardly relevant to the discussion at hand. That's why they try to make you focus on the unimportant irrelevant things. To distract you from the real issues.
Part of the problem, never said he was 100% responsible. He certainly is a New World Order puppet though.
PsychoSword
Moderator
^^^^ I give that post a 10.
Fred Hansen
New member
I can't believe that our moonlight walks together have been compromised. 
I feel so... dirty.
I feel so... dirty.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Source please.Psycho said:
Psycho-
So let me try to put together some of what I've seen you post on various threads:
1) The Central Banks are the headquarters of a vast conspiracy to rule the world.
2) A couple of decades ago they assembled such players as Clinton, Rumsfeld and Cheney.
3) They set Clinton up as President, Rumsfeld on the Board of of ABB and Cheney up as CEO of Haliburton.
4) Using the contrived Political animosity between right and left as a cover for "plausible denial", they set this plan in motion: Clinton would agree to sell nuclear technology to North Korea; Rumsfeld would control the vote of ABB for the contract; Cheney would hold in the background (for some backup plan).
5) Their nefarious conspiracy complete, Cheney is rewarded with the VP position, Rumsfeld with SoD and Clinton with....a library?
Do I have the picture about right?
How on earth do you make it thru a day, Man?
I mean it.
Rich
Psyco...
Although Rich hit man of the points that concerned me about your posted reply, one point still needs to be made. It goes to the crux of your argument. Your 'source', the Guardian article states that 'a spokesman for ABB...' and goes on about Rumsfeld.
Unnamed sources cannot be counted on as fact. It would be as if a reporter published an article about, let's say, pedophelia and stated 'a spokesperson for NAMBLA stated that Psychsword...'. You get the point. Its a device that reporters use to attempt to shore up unsubstantiated allegations or assertions. It is not the basis for fact and our discussions should be fact based.
You hit the nail on the head, though. We'll never know. Iron pyrite is still 'fools gold'.
Although Rich hit man of the points that concerned me about your posted reply, one point still needs to be made. It goes to the crux of your argument. Your 'source', the Guardian article states that 'a spokesman for ABB...' and goes on about Rumsfeld.
Unnamed sources cannot be counted on as fact. It would be as if a reporter published an article about, let's say, pedophelia and stated 'a spokesperson for NAMBLA stated that Psychsword...'. You get the point. Its a device that reporters use to attempt to shore up unsubstantiated allegations or assertions. It is not the basis for fact and our discussions should be fact based.
You hit the nail on the head, though. We'll never know. Iron pyrite is still 'fools gold'.