Non adjustable sight adjustment
- Thread starter 1972RedNeck
- Start date
Bob Wright
New member
I'll respond to some of the "what ifs" regarding my sighting in of fixed sight revolvers. First of all, I have only a couple of fixed sight guns, and these see only casual use.
The question came up about switching ammunition/loads. My fixed sight revolvers are fed a pretty steady diet of one ammunition variety. And, over time, I've developed a number of loads that all perform nearly identical to each oher. This in case there is a shortage of preferred powder or bullet combinations. So even if I have to switch ammunition, it will still have the same point of impact.
Not at the same range I have sighted in for? (Pardon the poor English) I have sighted in to bring my shots on line, left or right, and dead on for elevation. Slight differences in range won't affect the impact enough to matter. This is usually no more than an inch above or below my aiming point, not enough to cause a miss.
But I don't expect pinpoint accuracy from fixed sighted guns. When it is critical, I go to a Super Blackhawk or Blackhawk. As I said, they are sighted to hit center of a 6" (appx) dia. circle at 25 yards using s 6:00 o'clock hold. So sighted, I've made head shots on ground hogs at ranges out to just over 100 yards.
Bob Wright
And.................I had an early Uberti Cattleman, ca. 1975, imported by Iver Johnson. To hit a gallon milk jug at some fifty feet or so, estimated, I had to aim at the big toe of my right (Wright?) foot. Not a very pleasant feeling with a .44 Magnum.
The question came up about switching ammunition/loads. My fixed sight revolvers are fed a pretty steady diet of one ammunition variety. And, over time, I've developed a number of loads that all perform nearly identical to each oher. This in case there is a shortage of preferred powder or bullet combinations. So even if I have to switch ammunition, it will still have the same point of impact.
Not at the same range I have sighted in for? (Pardon the poor English) I have sighted in to bring my shots on line, left or right, and dead on for elevation. Slight differences in range won't affect the impact enough to matter. This is usually no more than an inch above or below my aiming point, not enough to cause a miss.
But I don't expect pinpoint accuracy from fixed sighted guns. When it is critical, I go to a Super Blackhawk or Blackhawk. As I said, they are sighted to hit center of a 6" (appx) dia. circle at 25 yards using s 6:00 o'clock hold. So sighted, I've made head shots on ground hogs at ranges out to just over 100 yards.
Bob Wright
And.................I had an early Uberti Cattleman, ca. 1975, imported by Iver Johnson. To hit a gallon milk jug at some fifty feet or so, estimated, I had to aim at the big toe of my right (Wright?) foot. Not a very pleasant feeling with a .44 Magnum.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
But in post #13 you wrote that your guns are regulated to hit the center of a 6" bullseye with a 6:00 o'clock hold at 25 yards. So unless you are shooting at a 6" bullseye at 25 yards, your sight picture is not "dead on," and you are obviously not shooting POI = POA. You are set up to hit 3 inches above point-of-aim at 25 yards. Change to a 3-inch bullseye, and if you use the same 6:00 o'clock point of aim now your group will be clustered right around the 12:00 o'clock top edge of the bullseye.Bob Wright said:
I regulate mine for 50 yards, dead center on top of the front sight. And there's more than one ways to skin that cat. A shortened Uberti 44 mag.
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/20220310_135213.jpg
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/20220319_102929.jpg
Skinner Patridge front sight, fitted and contoured
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/20220510_081827.jpg
The final zero couldn't have worked out better. Up close I shot a `Do-All spinner target. The top half is 2 7/8" and the bottom is 4 1/2"; they were easy at 10 and 17 paces respectively. When I didn't flub the press, I hit 6" knock-down plates at 50 yards by holding six o'clock on them. My 100 yard pistol target is an 18" square plate, hanging by one corner like a diamond and I shot in the middle of it holding on the top third. This was all with the Lyman 429667/7.5 W231 reload at 860 fps.
Of course that could all be accomplished with a set of adjustable sights. As I have mentioned, I prefer fixed and I don't mind doing a little work to zero them.
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/20220310_135213.jpg
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/20220319_102929.jpg
Skinner Patridge front sight, fitted and contoured
https://www.thesixgunjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/20220510_081827.jpg
The final zero couldn't have worked out better. Up close I shot a `Do-All spinner target. The top half is 2 7/8" and the bottom is 4 1/2"; they were easy at 10 and 17 paces respectively. When I didn't flub the press, I hit 6" knock-down plates at 50 yards by holding six o'clock on them. My 100 yard pistol target is an 18" square plate, hanging by one corner like a diamond and I shot in the middle of it holding on the top third. This was all with the Lyman 429667/7.5 W231 reload at 860 fps.
Of course that could all be accomplished with a set of adjustable sights. As I have mentioned, I prefer fixed and I don't mind doing a little work to zero them.
Bob Wright
New member
When I wrote that I was referring to my guns with adjustable sights, not my fixd sight guns.
Bob Wright
Bob Wright
197RedNeck,
What is the distance from the rear notch in your frame to the back edge of the front sight?
2" at 25 yards is not bad regulation, but I know the desire to get it right. I had about exactly that same error on a 3" Charter Bulldog that I fixed by filing the frame notch wider on the right side. It didn't take a lot, and the extra width made the sight easier to see anyway.
Revolvers all tend to shoot heavier bullets higher because heavier bullets give the muzzle more time to rise before they clear the muzzle. Wild differences like 44_AMP described are, thankfully, rare, and can indicate a twisted frame or other fundamental mechanical problem with the gun that the factory might want to take a look at (or that everybody is flinching). Nonetheless, I would test your gun with everything you might want to try in it, just to be sure you know what the relative POIs are before you change anything.
What is the distance from the rear notch in your frame to the back edge of the front sight?
2" at 25 yards is not bad regulation, but I know the desire to get it right. I had about exactly that same error on a 3" Charter Bulldog that I fixed by filing the frame notch wider on the right side. It didn't take a lot, and the extra width made the sight easier to see anyway.
Revolvers all tend to shoot heavier bullets higher because heavier bullets give the muzzle more time to rise before they clear the muzzle. Wild differences like 44_AMP described are, thankfully, rare, and can indicate a twisted frame or other fundamental mechanical problem with the gun that the factory might want to take a look at (or that everybody is flinching). Nonetheless, I would test your gun with everything you might want to try in it, just to be sure you know what the relative POIs are before you change anything.
In the interest of making things clear as mud
, I would point out that it is the speed of the bullet that determines the amount of time it spends in the barrel and therefore the amount of barrel rise in recoil before the bullet exits the muzzle. Bullet weight is a factor, but it is a factor in the speed of the load, so looking at weight alone isn't a good comparison.
In the rare, extreme example I gave with the huge difference in POI the bullets were the same weight (158gr) but the difference was 850fps (.38 Special) compared with approx. 1200fps (.357 Mag).
And the other significant factor was that particular gun. I've shot and seen shot a great many other guns with the same kind of ammo difference but where the POI difference was much, much smaller. I gave the example as an example of the extremes that can happen, not as something that will usually happen.
Uncle Nick is entirely correct that heavier bullets will generally strike higher on the target but that rule holds true best when comparing different bullet weights in the same cartridge. heavier bullets have to go slower (because they are heavier) to stay within the pressure limits of the cartridge.
When you compare different cartridges with different pressure limits (and resultant velocity differences) you can get "atypical" results, because you are no longer comparing apples to apples.