On numerous threads people talk about needing to have a bullet chambered because one might not have the split second needed to rack the slide if you carry a semi-auto. I think it would be good to talk about the scenarios that one might find themselves in that wouldn't allow you the time to rack a bullet into the chamber.
No Time to Rack the Slide
- Thread starter wyocarp
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It can be very fast, but it's not as fast as NOT having to rack the slide. In addition it requires two hands. Assuming that you can insure that you never have to draw with an injured hand, while carrying something you can't put down, or that you'll never have to hold off an attacker with one hand while you draw with the other and that you'll never be in a situation where draw time is critical then it's probably not that much of an issue.
Boris Bush
Moderator
wyocarp
That may be so, on a range shooting at paper. You just might be carrying something in your racking hand. You might have to fight off someone with your weak hand. A dog may clenching your racking arm.
Racking while drawing on the range might work fine, but in real life it would be a no go and one no go in real life means game over for you.
One thing everyone should realize is the first time you have to use your firearm to protect yourself, it will go exactly how you never trained for it to happen. The less you have to do from the time you skin your smoke wagon and fire the first round, the better off you are.
That may be so, on a range shooting at paper. You just might be carrying something in your racking hand. You might have to fight off someone with your weak hand. A dog may clenching your racking arm.
Racking while drawing on the range might work fine, but in real life it would be a no go and one no go in real life means game over for you.
One thing everyone should realize is the first time you have to use your firearm to protect yourself, it will go exactly how you never trained for it to happen. The less you have to do from the time you skin your smoke wagon and fire the first round, the better off you are.
Okay, so one scenario is:
When you are jumped and caught totally unaware.
Carrying something isn't a reason for me to not be able to rack my gun in that type of situation unless I'm carrying my wife. Anything else I can drop if needed.
For it to be extremely fast, both hands are needed. But it isn't hard to rack with one hand. I practice it all the time.
Time? Are people not aware of their surroundings? I've not been attacked by a person. I have had several different attacks by animals. There are no animals quicker than lions and bears. I've had both happen. They are so quick that people would look like they aren't moving in comparison. I'm not convinced of the time thing.
When you are jumped and caught totally unaware.
Carrying something isn't a reason for me to not be able to rack my gun in that type of situation unless I'm carrying my wife. Anything else I can drop if needed.
For it to be extremely fast, both hands are needed. But it isn't hard to rack with one hand. I practice it all the time.
Time? Are people not aware of their surroundings? I've not been attacked by a person. I have had several different attacks by animals. There are no animals quicker than lions and bears. I've had both happen. They are so quick that people would look like they aren't moving in comparison. I'm not convinced of the time thing.
but honestly, i wouldnt want to have to take the time to rack the slide, or even line up the sights if i'm attack. it'll be down to pointshooting if i actually have to fire.Child, spare magazine, flashlight, keys, etc. You can drop ANYTHING, but it's not always a reasonable option and it's often undesirable.
Yup, but while it's possible,it's not as positive a method as racking two-handed, and as you say, it's certainly not as fast. And even with two hands it's just one more thing you have to do and one more thing that can go wrong.
It's not completely unheard of for criminals to do their best to remain unnoticed/undetected until they attack. They understand that it gives them a significant advantage.
A person can't "slice the pie" on every corner or clear every room they enter. It's not always possible to walk without passing near automobiles or other objects large enough to conceal a person.
predator86
New member
would you be sitting at a drag race with your car in neutral??? no, its in gear with your foot on the brake because it is .000002 seconds faster takeoff if you dont have to shift right away......
why the hell is this even coming up????? christ talk about playing russian roulette man.........
why the hell is this even coming up????? christ talk about playing russian roulette man.........
Good point. And I would add that life or death fights are often won or lost by tenths of seconds. Even if racking the slide is only .12 seconds slower than coming out of the holster with a hot gun, most experienced shooters can fire shots with split times of about .12-.15. Thats one extra shot that may end the fight for either party.
Biff from Oxford
Moderator
I notice that you are from Wyoming, I used to live in Wyoming. There are very few people there so maybe you can't imagine all the different scenarios because you do not live in a place where the people that are there are 80% of one color and that color hates you.
Trust me if that were the case those people could and would come up with all types of scenarios that would prove to you that sometimes you don't have time to rack the slide.
Trust me if that were the case those people could and would come up with all types of scenarios that would prove to you that sometimes you don't have time to rack the slide.
gordo_gun_guy
New member
I can think of one reason:
if you live in Israel, do what's required by law.
In our country, I feel carrying without a round chambered is less responsible than not carrying at all. It could cause a fatal delay in employing your weapon.
I get the impression the OP must live in the sticks. For those of us who carry in urban settings, it's quite likely you may be drawing to a contact shooting. Your off hand may be blocking a strike/trying to keep head control while slipping your thumb in his eye/crushing his windpipe/breaking down his balance while you knee his groin, etc.
Maybe I can't convince the OP on the distance/speed equation, so how about the noise argument?
What happens when you're eating at McFattykins with your family, and the place gets held up? Of course, you're not going to draw to a drawn gun if the perp's looking your way, and your first job should be to discreetly exfiltrate your loved ones. Still, as you're doing the above with the perp's attention elsewhere, would you rather deftly (and SILENTLY) slip your Kahr/Glock/cocked and locked 1911 out of your soft, leather IWB and have sights aligned on the perps back without noise (except maybe the muted click of a 1911 safety)? Or would you rather have the perp turn at the sound of ching-ching? Or worse, have the perp turn early and see your weapon, before you had a chance to chamber a round?
Sounds downright negligent to me. If you're paranoid about having a chambered round, avoid horizontal shoulder holsters and front pocket carry, and instead choose strong side or ankle carry or another mode where you can ensure your muzzle is always pointed safely at the ground in the event that every mechanical failure in the world--or a proton choosing to decay inside your primer--causes an AD.
if you live in Israel, do what's required by law.
In our country, I feel carrying without a round chambered is less responsible than not carrying at all. It could cause a fatal delay in employing your weapon.
I get the impression the OP must live in the sticks. For those of us who carry in urban settings, it's quite likely you may be drawing to a contact shooting. Your off hand may be blocking a strike/trying to keep head control while slipping your thumb in his eye/crushing his windpipe/breaking down his balance while you knee his groin, etc.
Maybe I can't convince the OP on the distance/speed equation, so how about the noise argument?
What happens when you're eating at McFattykins with your family, and the place gets held up? Of course, you're not going to draw to a drawn gun if the perp's looking your way, and your first job should be to discreetly exfiltrate your loved ones. Still, as you're doing the above with the perp's attention elsewhere, would you rather deftly (and SILENTLY) slip your Kahr/Glock/cocked and locked 1911 out of your soft, leather IWB and have sights aligned on the perps back without noise (except maybe the muted click of a 1911 safety)? Or would you rather have the perp turn at the sound of ching-ching? Or worse, have the perp turn early and see your weapon, before you had a chance to chamber a round?
Sounds downright negligent to me. If you're paranoid about having a chambered round, avoid horizontal shoulder holsters and front pocket carry, and instead choose strong side or ankle carry or another mode where you can ensure your muzzle is always pointed safely at the ground in the event that every mechanical failure in the world--or a proton choosing to decay inside your primer--causes an AD.
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Double Naught Spy
New member
Ah, but it does take extra time. Time that you may not have. It also assumes that you have both hands free for the task. Oh wait, you practice one handed too.
Okay wyocarp, how quickly can you draw and rack the slide on a semiauto when your weak had is busy fending off a person trying to stab you or hit you with a club? Have you practiced being able to do this?
How quickly can you draw and rack the slide when you are using your weak hand to drag a loved one out of the line of fire with it?
How quickly can you draw and rack the slide when you are using your weak hand to staunch the flow of blood on your own body?
How quickly can you draw and rack the slide and your dominant hand/arm has already been disabled in the fight?
People who talk about drawing and racking almost always talk about having both hands free for the task and in real life, we don't always have both hand available for such a task. Now, it isn't so much of a speed issue anymore as it is an issue of just being able to successful accomplish the task and if that gives you problems, it will take a LOT more time. You can learn to do a one-handed rack, but it takes time and increases the risk of inducing a malfunction if not done right, thereby necessitating more time to have to possibly clear the malfunction and then re-rack the slide.
A lot of folks don't practice one-handed racking and a lot of ranges won't allow it to be practiced because it is considered a dangerous way to handle a gun, and it is more dangerous to do than doing it in a traditional two handed rack method.
But hey, if you want to carry without a round in the chamber and feel safe doing so, you are just handicapping yourself, but you apparently don't feel your handicap is enough to give the bad guys an advantage. Good luck.
Gordo beat me to the punch so I'm just going to repeat.
1) Close Quarters - If you have had to push away, or if you are trying to hold a badguy off, your other hand may be fully occupied.
2) Stealth - Visualize "Star Wars"...Would Han have gotten Greedo in the cantina if he'd had to rack a noisy slide? (yes I know, fictional movie, but my point still stands that stealth and surprise are force multipliers). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YbFnkZwZk
1) Close Quarters - If you have had to push away, or if you are trying to hold a badguy off, your other hand may be fully occupied.
2) Stealth - Visualize "Star Wars"...Would Han have gotten Greedo in the cantina if he'd had to rack a noisy slide? (yes I know, fictional movie, but my point still stands that stealth and surprise are force multipliers). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YbFnkZwZk
Why carry with a round chambered vs. empty? Because I won't give any advantage I don't have to to someone who is a threat to my life or the life of a loved one.
The criminal already has the advantage of chosing the time, timing, method and place of the attack as well as how many assistants he brings along. They are trained in launching an attack up close and with a high level of violence. Not all of them are going to give pre-assaultive behavior that justify your drawing and chambering a round to get ready.
In short, the incident you are involved in may be a "come as you are" event. That's no time to be reaching for a half loaded gun.
The criminal already has the advantage of chosing the time, timing, method and place of the attack as well as how many assistants he brings along. They are trained in launching an attack up close and with a high level of violence. Not all of them are going to give pre-assaultive behavior that justify your drawing and chambering a round to get ready.
In short, the incident you are involved in may be a "come as you are" event. That's no time to be reaching for a half loaded gun.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Not giving away any advantage is a good point. Chances are that you will be reacting to a threat and as such, you will be behind the curve even before you start.
arktravler
New member
Why not try a drill? Have your unload firearm in your holster and have a friend run at you from 21', which is within the area it is said most SD situations happen. Have him/her run at you from there... You un-holster & rack your slide before they get to you. I think you'd be quite surprised
how fast even a fat boy like me can cover 21'. You'd have no time.. IMO....
how fast even a fat boy like me can cover 21'. You'd have no time.. IMO....So I am in Burger King when a deranged nut job starts a hostage standoff. Do I want him to hear me racking a slide or would I rather his first indication of trouble be my bullet exiting from the front of his forehead?
What I may need to be doing with my other arm:
Grabbing my child
Pushing my wife to safety
Applying direct pressure to a wound
Bleeding and useless because of a wound it received
Fighting off a close quarters attacker while the weapon is brought to bear
What I may need to be doing with my other arm:
Grabbing my child
Pushing my wife to safety
Applying direct pressure to a wound
Bleeding and useless because of a wound it received
Fighting off a close quarters attacker while the weapon is brought to bear
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