No lever/bolt actions in .460 S&W?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I see lever actions in .44Mag/Spl, .357Mag, 45-70, even 500S&W, but not the .460...

I base this purely on the fact that I've never seen them discussed, but it seems that there are no such guns around.

True?
If so, why do you think that is, given its near rifle performance out of a revolver?
 
Do you know what pressures the 460 runs? Takes a strong action to handle that much-far more than the cartridges you mentioned.
 
OK, but is it more than .308, 30-06 or other common rifle cartridges?

The title mentions bolt-actions too and those exist for the .44 and .357 mags....
 
308, 30-06 are more powerful, but generate less pressure on the action. It is possible, but not really practical. The 500 S&W is in a similar pressure range and they do make rifles for it so a 460 could be done. But why?

You can load 45-70, 375 magnum and most any round made for a rifle to be more powerful with less pressure. Those rounds are best left in handguns where they were designed to be used.
 
You will likely never need more levergun than that.
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I doubt I'd need more than .44Mag.

This is not about filling a need. I'm just wondering why they've not come out with one and it seems to be an engineering challenge coupled to an unsure marketing outcome...
 
PJP- I think its less about making a rifle that can handle the pressure and more about making a rifle that they can sell. Big Horn Armory makes a very nice 460s&w lever gun starting is $3500ish. Most rotating bolt style levers should be able to handle the pressure, think Win 88 or BLR style. As far as bolt guns, the rimmed cartridge is challenging to feed, certainly can be done. Think Mosin Nagant.
I have a 460xvr that I love. Would be nice to have a rifle with matching cartridge. It is a beast of a cartridge.
On a side note there is a cartridge called 450 Raptor. Exact same as 460s&w except it has a rebated rim. Barrels available for AR308 and can easily be made for almost any 308 / 30-06 rifle. Dont quote me on this- 308 and 460 are max 62k psi.
 
Mr. Pond,

Boogieman beat me to it. Big Horn Armory is not that far from my location. I have seen them in Scheels in Billings and drooled over the fit and finish. The price is too much for me. The model 90 is 460SW, the Model 91 is 500SW.

If you get one we must have pics.
 
Not enough demand would be my guess.

The 460 is a large handgun round that develops rifle type power. If your going to be shooting a rifle why not just go with a rifle cartridge?

I want to get a .357 lever action, but only because I cast and reload for 38 special and .357. I doubt any one is going to be purchasing a .460 S&W because of easy/cheap ammo availability.
 
Once you get a brass case that long and that wide you now are competing for a piece of the 45-70 market and the 460 will not outperform the 45-70, so I expect that gun makers will not invest in a market that is filled with something that covers the bases well, and does everything as well and better then the 460 would.

Anyway, that's my guess.
 
A Ruger No.3 would be pretty sweet in 500 or 460.
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A Ruger No.3 in .460 would kick butt! Literally, the butt would KICK!! It would kick my butt to shoot it. My .45-70 No.3 sure does when loaded hot!

The .460S&W (running at 65,000psi) could be done in a No.3, but begs the question, why??

The case is .3" shorter than the .45-70 (of no concern in the single shot), and I don't see any real performance increase over what the .45-70 can do in the No.3, IF you load the .45-70 up to the max that the rifle and the brass will take.

Plus the .460 uses .452" pistol bullets while the .45-70 uses .458 rifle bullets.

A quick look shows the .460 heaviest bullet running 350-400gr, while this is about the middle of the .458 bullet weight range.

Quite simply, there isn't enough demand for any major levergun maker to adapt a model for the .460.

Compared to the standard Marlins and Winchesters the Big Horn Armory guns are virtually handmade custom pieces. Not quite, but they are a small shop, who's guns are excellently made by pretty skilled folk, making a niche product and their prices reflect that.
 
Not sure about a levergun, but a bolt-action rifle that could handle everything from .45Colt to .460S&W would be a nifty gun to have....
 
Quite simply, there isn't enough demand for any major levergun maker to adapt a model for the .460.
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That would seem to be the case, but ignoring the market forces, people say the .460 is flat shooting, whereas the 45-70 is not.

As you say 300gn bullets at 2400fps (2250 being the velocity from the XVR revolvers) would kick, but less than a 450gn bullet in the 45-70. On top of that there is the added tendency for people to have long-guns and handguns in matching calibres.

So, perhaps the advantages would be cross-over calibres with revolvers and a flatter trajectory than 45-70 but still with a big-hole-maker bullet.

Not all together insignificant, though clearly not significant enough for anyone to develop....
 
I think what some are failing to realize is the .460 mags max pressure is 65k. This is as much or more than some magnum rifle calibers. When I had my .460PC with a 10.5" barrel I was able to push 300gn bullets to 2100fps. That equates to almost 2900lbs of muzzle energy which is more than a .30-06. Thankfully the gun with scope, 3 rings, and bi-pod was pushing 9 lbs which helped absorb some of the recoil. I couldn't imagine how it would feel in a 7lb lever gun.
 
people say the .460 is flat shooting, whereas the 45-70 is not.
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Probably because they are comparing the .460 in its natural state, as a "hyper" velocity PISTOL cartridge (2200fps+) and the .45-70 in its standard 1873 blackpowder velocity loading (1300fps).

If you compare bullets of identical weight at the same velocities, one a .452" (.460S&W) and the other a .458" (.45-70) there is no significant different in their trajectories, other than the small amount created by differences in their BC due to their nose profiles.

The .460 shoots "very flat" for a PISTOL ROUND, by current standards.
The .45-70 does not shoot "very flat" for a RIFLE ROUND, by current standards.

As you say 300gn bullets at 2400fps (2250 being the velocity from the XVR revolvers) would kick, but less than a 450gn bullet in the 45-70.
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Recoil energy is a straight computation. There is a point where the 300gr and the 450gr bullets produce exactly the same amount of recoil energy. However, at that point, the lighter bullet is moving much faster than the heavier one. Move them both at the same speed, the heavier slug will always have the higher recoil energy.

How we each perceive that energy is called "felt recoil" and is entirely subjective, a matter of what each different shooter "feels" when they fire the gun. This involves numerous "shooter" factors beyond the gun and the ammo themselves. How the gun "fits" the shooter, how the shooter "fits the gun" (meaning how they hold and fire it) and other factors make a difference in the feel for each individual.

For example, a friend of mine thinks my Ruger No.3 .45-70 "kicks like a mule" shooting the standard 405gr load, and refuses to shoot it with anything hotter.
(He shoots Sharps & Winchester .45-70s, considerably heavier rifles with different stock dimensions.

I think the recoil from my No.3 with standard loads is a moderate shove, and not at all disagreeable. Raise that same bullet to 1800+fps and the recoil changes HUGELY! And the lighter the rifle, the more...noticeable it gets!

When I had my .460PC with a 10.5" barrel I was able to push 300gn bullets to 2100fps. That equates to almost 2900lbs of muzzle energy which is more than a .30-06. Thankfully the gun with scope, 3 rings, and bi-pod was pushing 9 lbs which helped absorb some of the recoil. I couldn't imagine how it would feel in a 7lb lever gun.
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A "pushing" 9lb handgun! WOW!!:) :confused:
I realize how it gets there, and how the weight helps with the recoil, I just can't see how a handgun that heavy is any real advantage to a rifle, other than being shorter.

I have a 350gr load that clocks 2200fps from my Ruger No.3, which is a 6lb rifle! This load is a "walk you back one step to keep from falling" level beast when fired offhand, and in the never, never, NEVER fire from the prone position group in my book. So is the 400gr at 1800fps from this light carbine.

AND these loads are much lower pressure than the 65K psi of the .460 S&W!
 
Something to consider. I mentioned the 450 raptor. Any 308 rifle should be able to be rechambered and barreled for that round. It will feed with little problems from a 308 mag.
I have considered cutting my xvr for moon clips and running that round in both the xvr and a matching rifle. If you Google 450 raptor you will see rifles available for the cartridge. It would also make for one nasty ar308. Lots of firepower in a sa rifle with a 10 round mag.
 
I just can't see how a handgun that heavy is any real advantage to a rifle, other than being shorter.
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In many cases the advantage is it is legal. It can also be easier to carry in a holster than a slung rifle over the shoulder, especially over rough terrain where both hands free is a blessing. I find any sort of climbing with a slung rifle to be a real pain. My opinion of course, and neither is perfect.

The 460 is generally factory loaded with relatively fast burning powders for relatively short barreled pistols. The 45-70p often relatively slow burning powders for relatively long barrels. That can make a big difference on how the recoil feels.
 
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