No Kids - I Don't Need To Secure My Gun

I'll also posit everyone that came over were familiar with firearms, had their own, and had shot the ones I had. I grew up in a household with the preverbial shotgun propped against a corner by the door. I'd proffer adults snooping in closets are a relative rarity. Again, they are adults...
 
RedBowTies88 said:
...sorry guys, but I'm not locking and unlocking my HD handgun every time I leave and return to my residence...
Your choice; and if something bad happens, you'll be living with the consequences.
 
zincwarrior said:
...I'd proffer adults snooping in closets are a relative rarity. Again, they are adults...
Nonetheless, even adults on occasion do unpredictable, rude or dumb things.

This subject gets discussed here from time to time, not long ago in this thread. I always find it interesting the lengths to which some folks will go to rationalize not taking some basic precautions to prevent unauthorized access to their guns and the potentially tragic results that could, and have, come from such unauthorized access.

Bottom line is that in my view the responsible gun owner secures his guns against unauthorized access, and that means keeping it on his person or locking it up. It's a matter of personal responsibility and prudence. If someone chooses not to do so, he shouldn't expect to be congratulated on his choice.
 
A very, very difficult way to learn that all guns should always be secured.

I'm 51, two kids. Now 13 and 15. Both grew up here in my house and surrounded by guns.

As far as the quote.... how do you define "secured?" And are we talking "all guns" or just those that have ammo available?

My carry gun is kept in the Wilderness Safepacker. The way I always carry it. When I'm home and take it off, I put it in the same semi-high place where it has always lived. Not under lock and key but not anywhere near "toddler height." Certainly my teenagers know about it and could pick it up at any time. I also keep two 12 gauge shotguns "at hand." One is a double barrel with hammers. So that one has to be cocked and then the tang safety released to fire. Kept high and out of casual sight. The FN SLP is kept in a case by the bed, loaded tube, empty chamber. Then there are three military type rifles that are kept unloaded but with the mags sitting next to them in a closet. Yes, I also have one of those small safes that you index with your hand to open for three loaded handguns. And I have two large safes.

That's it for loaded guns out here on my 90 acres. But if you walked into my living room or dining room at any given time and really opened your eyes, you would see guns here, there, and everywhere. I have a large bookcase that is built into one wall. There are probably ten handguns on top of various books up there. There are guns on the coffee table sometimes. Guns on the printer. I have three open rifle racks so that's 11 rifles right there. I love guns and always have. And I keep some "loose" around me so that I can enjoy them all day long. Always have. Even when the children were tiny. I don't agree that unloaded guns needed to be locked up.

My younger sister has observed that I never had any problem with my children and guns despite the fact that my house is full of them. When she had a child of her own, they decided to get a home defense shotgun and she called me for advice on how to "kid proof" things. She asked me what my strategy was. I told her the problem was.... my situation is rare and she wasn't going to be able to match it unless she became a gun collector.

I told her my theory was that kids like to get into things that are forbidden. Things they are told to never touch. On the other hand, at my house, I go for the "bore them to death" approach. I talk about guns all the time. I drill them on firearms safety. I take them shooting on our property. We have a standing rule that any gun can be shot at any time. If you see a gun in my safe or on the wall or in the bookshelf, you don't need to be sneaky about it. Ask me, I'll hand it to you and tell you everything about it. I'll show you how to take it apart. We'll round up 100 rounds and take it out in the pasture right now and shoot it. Take all the mystery and forbidden part out of it. It's the way children used to be raised around guns. And it has worked for me. I've seen my children shove various handguns off to one side so that they can sit at a table to eat lunch. Without any curiosity or "forbidden fruit" looks in their eyes.

(These guns weren't loaded and there is never ammo anywhere around any guns except for the ones that are ALWAYS loaded. Keeps you from being confused and making a mistake. Despite that, I check each one when I pick it up. And if I tell one of my children to go get me one specifically, I watch them to make sure they check it before they cross the room. Even though they roll their eyes and look bored!)

I realize most people don't have enough guns to really bore the children but it works for me!

So no, I don't agree that "all guns should always be secured."

Oh, I know what some will say. What about their friends? We almost never have any kid friends out to the house. We live five miles outside of town so nobody is going to just walk here or even ride a bike. If we end up with an overnight guest, I embarrass my kids but they know the rules. They bring the kid to me. And they get questioned about their gun experience. What they've shot and how they like it. Then I offer right then and there to take them outside into the pasture and let them shoot something. Quell that curiosity right now. No need to secretly touch that old Mosin on the wall, I'll take you out and let you shoot an AK or FAL right now.

If I ever had a kid fail my questions... that would be a problem. But this is a rural county and it hasn't happened yet.

And we have 15 Belgian Malinois in the yard and house just to keep an eye on things. Or 30 eyes. We don't have intruder problems.

Gregg
 
If someone chooses not to do so, he shouldn't expect to be congratulated on his choice.

Why would I need you (a stranger on the internet) to "congratulate me?" Am I supposed to care if you approve of my choice in cars/food/TV shows as well?

Use your brains and experience. Think about things and your personal situation. Don't give a rat's crap about what other people think.

Gregg
 
Well as a stranger, I congratulate you on managing to acquire such an inventory without the wife commencing Operation Panhandle as a veto device after seeing the bill. :)

EDIT: I can understand Ettin's point, even though I don't necssarily agree with it in all instances.
 
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When my kids were growing up, I had guns around. They were told that any tie they wanted to see of, or show one to one of their friends to ask me. I never refused. Never had a problem.
My youngest daughter will be here in two days with her four kids. :eek: Two early teens and two very young ones. Looks like all toys will be in the safes except my CCW pieces, a 9mm and a .38 snub BUG.
The older ones will be given a detailed lecture on gun safety; the same one I teach in Hunter Ed class. They live in Texas and I have a good idea of how many homes have guns. Maybe it'll help keep them out of trouble.
Paul B.
 
If you do not have kids you are not as aware of your surroundings as they relate to a young child. Speeking from experience!
Try to think of them as little thiefs that want to get into everything, as soon as they show up start securing everything valuable and deadly.
 
If you do not have kids you are not as aware of your surroundings as they relate to a young child. Speaking from experience!
Try to think of them as little thieves that want to get into everything, as soon as they show up start securing everything valuable and deadly. __________________

I have read a couple follow ups to this story. Apparently it took less than a minute for this to happen. I would say the better option is to already make it a habit to always secure your weapons so you don't have to remember if someone shows up.
 
Consider this scenario. I work during the week in one city and commute back home during the weekend.

During the week no one comes to my location, except as a stopoff point to going to the other house in case of a hurricane. Literally no one I know in the other city has children that themselves aren't grown adults. They don't come over either.

At that location I have a loaded shotgun in one room, and a pistol in a book sized chest on the table next to where I sit. Why should someone in my circumstance be concerned at all?

If BG's get in they aren't going to be stopped by a simple chest or gun vault.
No one else comes there.
 
zincwarrior said:
...No one else comes there.
Maybe and maybe not. People have often made categorical statements like "no one ever" or "never" or "it can't happen." Sometimes they've been correct, but sometimes they've been wrong.

Counting on "no one ever" or "never" or "it can't happen" are examples of the human capacity for rationalization.
 
To me, the "unannounced visit" aspect of this story is rather sobering. I wonder how many of us who are either pre- or post-children actually think about this kind of circumstance. I consider myself to be quite vigilant about gun safety, and although a 4-year-old would not find an unattended firearm in my living room, neither can I honestly say that every firearm is always under lock and key if it is not on me. I use a quick-access box when company is expected, whether the company is child or adult. But what would happen if the unannounced visit happened right after I finished cleaning a HD pistol after a range trip? What about my wife's bedside pistol? What about leaving a pistol in a drawer or counter top when you are in the shower? Little kids don't respect such boundaries because they haven't learned them yet. The real-life answers aren't as easy as the typed generalizations.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zincwarrior
...No one else comes there.

Maybe and maybe not. People have often made categorical statements like "no one ever" or "never" or "it can't happen." Sometimes they've been correct, but sometimes they've been wrong.

Counting on "no one ever" or "never" or "it can't happen" are examples of the human capacity for rationalization.

I'll rephrase. Using a standard deviation matrix, there is a statistical certainty no one goes there. :D

I know of no one with little kids in that city.
I know of no one with little kids.
I've never invited anyone to that location.
No one besides me and the wife know the address (its not a secret or anything), or have keys to such.

Anyone entering is a tresspasser, and my concern for their welfare is appropriate.
 
People will make their own decisions, and rationalize things to suit their needs. Ultimately, one truth has been made evident by all of these disastrous events:

Firearms that are secured 100% of the time are NEVER involved in these accidents.

Nobody who ever had this type of thing happen to them actually thought that it would. They made a Condition White ("nothing bad can happen") decision about firearm storage, and then a Bad Thing happened. "Situational awareness" extends to more than just identifying potential threats outside the home. It also involves recognizing that making safe decisions starts in the home.
 
Every generation of my family, as far back as we can find (which goes back further than the USA) has lived in a home with at least one unsecured (and normally loaded) gun. The gun, loaded or not, is not the problem.

Improperly trained (if trained at all) children, unsupervised (and any adult in the same category) are the problems. Deal with it the best way you see fit.

Most folks lock up everything. Some lock up everything but the defense gun(s). Some don't lock any of it. Your life, your choice as I see it.

One thing I do, if not securing the "emergency response piece" when I'm going to be away for a while, I don't leave it loaded. No sense giving a thief a loaded gun. Sure, they could find the ammo and load it, they found the gun, right? Ok, fine. But at least they're going to have to work at it a bit more...

My current situation? Kids grown, moved away. Nobody visits when I'm not there. Period.
 
People will make their own decisions, and rationalize things to suit their needs. Ultimately, one truth has been made evident by all of these disastrous events:

Firearms that are secured 100% of the time are NEVER involved in these accidents.

Nobody who ever had this type of thing happen to them actually thought that it would. They made a Condition White ("nothing bad can happen") decision about firearm storage, and then a Bad Thing happened. "Situational awareness" extends to more than just identifying potential threats outside the home. It also involves recognizing that making safe decisions starts in the home.

Respectfully, one could also say that households with no firearms at all are never involved in these incidents either.
 
I have some of my guns on a rack for display. They are all fully operational, but do not have ammo in them or even in the same room. Would this also be frowned upon?
 
Quote:
Firearms that are secured 100% of the time are NEVER involved in these accidents.

Cars that are parked in the garage 100% of the time are also NEVER involved in crashes....

Well a $2,500 bill from the body shop proves thats a false statement. Dreams of a shotgun for competition...bye bye...:eek:
 
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