No Glock for me.

Cain R:
I can really appreciate your quandry over which gun to buy. If you DO buy a Norinco 1911A1, and you intend to use it for competition, you will most likely install 'better' sights, and some parts to improve the trigger. Bear in mind that the Norinco is completely, 100% interchangeable with Colt and aftermarket 1911 parts. That can be a good thing....but a bad thing for your bank account.;) In any case, don't let anybody talk you out of buying the bargain Norinco....it's a good, solid, well-made pistol. If you DO buy the Norinco, give me a shout, and I'll give you details of all the mods that I did to mine, and what you can do without. All this talk about Chinese metallurgic inferiority is just that....talk. Ask anybody who brings this up if they've heard about the Springfield 1911's that are launching the front ends of their slides downrange.....
If you are still hankering after a Glock, there must be a reason for it....I guess what you have to do is decide what you want to USE the pistol for. You mentioned IDPA......my choice would be a Glock 17 or 34, personally. If you're thinking of trying your hand at IPSC Standard Class, then I would go with a double-stack pistol....if you don't, you will end up buying one anyway. I've seen this happen over and over again with new IPSC shooters....including myself.
Have you looked at Para-Ord's, btw..?
Mike
 
I find your statement on cast bullets interesting, since I shoot well in excess of 400 rounds of cast bullets a week of though my Glocks (34/35) with no problems.

The brands I use are Laser Cast and Bear Creek bullets with my preference being Bear Creek (180 gr TC moly) due to the low smoke it generates.
 
Glocks and 1911s feel very different to the hand, but they are both capable of excellent shooting. I sucked terribly with Glocks until the new frame contour came out, now I shoot them quite well.
 
Cain
Considering what you have to go through to even GET a pistol in Canada, by all means, get one you're comfortable with.
Um, can you even THINK about getting a pistol in Canada?

the tigger pull just wasn't for me.
Click to expand...
There's the trouble, you had one of those rubber-and-springs mods...;) :p
 
Glocks aren't for everyone.

BUT, if I wasn't sure what I wanted, I'd rent the whole gun case. And shoot every Glock, Sig, HK, Colt, Kahr, CZ, Kimber, Para, Beretta, SW, and the like to see what I shoot well and what I like.

Then I'd decide.

Most experienced Glock shooters and gun store staff would have put a Glock 17/19 or a Glock 21 into your hand.

When you combine inexperience with a new trigger setup and a semi-smack down round designed for law enforcement and put it into a civilian's hands, the result it what happened. Forty SW has that reputation of putting people off.

I'm not really big on the 40SW round myself. But I've learned how to shoot the round proficently and after shooting 357 SIG, 10mm, and 44 mag, its a pussy cat then.

And the Glock trigger does take some getting used to. Unless you're like me and learned pistol shooting on a Glock.

And a good shooter can and should be able to shoot ANY gun close to its inherent accuracy. Two to three inch groups at 25 yards.

But don't think anyone could formulate a sound rational scientiifcally supportable decison based upon less than a two boxes of ammo shot at various distances. and those would be two different brands of ammo. Just like Mike Davies told you.
As a reloader, I can tell you that 2/100 of a grain does affect accuracy and if you're shooting Blazers, Wolff, or of that other cheap third world crap, you can't expect accuracy. The factory ammo wasn't tuned for your gun. That too is a science and an art form.

While gun purchases have an emotional, "chicks dig this, I'm macho now, look at me - look at me, I think this a is a cool looking gun" ambiance to it, application needs and measureable shooting performance should prevail.

And you should be able to afford it to buy it and the ammo as well.

Sounds like the snap was too much for you.

Perhaps, it wasn't the best gun for your ergonomics.

Or maybe your targets looked like shotgun patterns.

Don't blame the gun. Those occurrences were due to the cartridge, your newness to the Glock trigger, or your familiarity with the 1911 style manual of arms.

Just look at your average police officer, he or she has to effectively shoot whatever gun their agency issues. No excuses. Just performance.

I'm just glad the range officer wasn't shooting a Lorcin or a Raven!
 
Last edited:
And while we're talking cast lead bullets and Glocks, its a no-no in a factory Glock barel.

Just drop $75-100 and get an aftermarket barrel and you can shoot those LSWCs till the cows come home.

But if you shot lead in a Glock barrel and don't clean it out every 75 to 100 rounds, the rifling can lead up and you could lodge a bullet and be a kaboom victim.

And with the aftermaket barrels, you get almost full support as well.

A no brainer in my book.
 
:rolleyes:

You could've left out the "I hate Glocks because I can't deal with it." part of your post and simply asked for opinions about the different 1911s that are available to you.

:rolleyes: :barf:
 
I think Mr. Duncan has come pretty close to hitting the nail on the proverbial head .

1. Why would Mr. Cain R. try to compare a .40 caliber ANYTHING to a .45 caliber 1911 ??

2. Which .40 Glock was Mr. Cain R. shooting ?? The G27, the G23, the G22 or the G35 ?? All handle and shoot differently. And NONE is similar to the .45ACP 1911.

3. Now that I've (probably) offended Mr. Cain R, let me offer a sincere suggestion. Go back to that range and try a few 9mm Glocks as "starters" - NOT the ultra small G26, but probably the G17 (which has about the same barrel length as most 1911's). AND maybe try a full sized Glock in .45 ACP (model G21). WHY ??, you may ask, since didn't seem to suit you very well. My answer is as follows (and will probably set off a flame session):

You will not find a more reliable handgun than the Glock. Period. You MAY find a custom 1911 that is equally reliable, but you will pay two or three times as much for it, and then you will need a good gunsmith to KEEP it (or any custom handgun) reliable throughout it's lifespan.

If you later decide to own more than one caliber, all the Glocks will function in the same fashion and will shoot essentially the same. You will have a hard time getting good 1911's in 9mm, .40, .357 and 10mm.

4. If, after trying the 9mm Glock, you don't like the feel - by all means DON'T buy one. But you owe it to yourself to give it a fair try before you dismiss it as an unsuitable (for you) weapon.

5. If your primary criterion is accuracy, a GOOD 1911 will beat the Glock (by a relatively small margin). BUT if you have any plans to ever use it for self defense, your primary criterion should be RELIABILITY. By all means give the Glock an objective trial before you do yourself the dissservice of eliminating it from consideration.
 
dawg23,

Are you going to lose a commission check or something? ;)

First off, I doubt he wants it for defense, CCW, or that he tried a G27. He lives in Canada and is looking for a competition pistol.

While a Glock can more than hold its own in Production Class; last I checked, they don't have Production Class in Canada.

If he thought the trigger and grip angle on the .40 Glock were wrong for him, why would they be better on a 9mm? :confused:



You know, it's okay if someone goes pistol shopping and chooses a different gun than you do. It doesn't reflect anything on your choice one way or the other. He said "for me the Glock sucks". Fine. I'm cool with that. For me, it doesn't, but I ain't him. :cool:
 
Last edited:
yo dudes,I can relate to yall, just bought both weapons. I realize their both on opposite sides of the planet, but I have to say I love em both with, believe it or not 1911 fans, the glock 31 a slight edge over my kimber custom. Hey pal , Glocks do not suck...LIBERALS SUCK, do not lose sight of our big picture, THE SECOND AMMENDMENT, CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG, sorry didnt mean to shout

later
 
JT,

Have you actually experienced the problem with lead bullets that you mention? The reason I ask, is that I shoot over 400 rounds a week using Bear Creek and Laser Cast. To date I have yet to experience a problem no kabooms, nojams, nada (Nothing in Spanish :)). BTW, my OAL is 1.160 again no problem. So I would like to know how you came up with the number that you stated in the earlier thread.

"But if you shot lead in a Glock barrel and don't clean it out every 75 to 100 rounds, the rifling can lead up and you could lodge a bullet and be a kaboom victim."
 
blades67

Thanks to all you responses. I think perhaps I was too quick to judge the Glock, I shoot a lot of revolver but NO semi-autos, not yet anyway. 20 rounds in hindsight is hardly enough to judge a firearm.;)
 
Last edited:
I own the Para-ord. LDA 14-45 and can say it is a fine tool , no problems to date and accurate right out of the box and after 5k rounds (its actually getting better with use)still tight , but recently a Brand Spanking New colt .45 came in to the shop from Colt and we checked it out . we were suprised to see that the fit and finish were spectaular , No slop whatso ever ! one of the old timers looked at it and said this is the way to build a gun , I guess they finally got the QC problems worked out . the gun was only on the shelf for 1 day before someone bought it . too bad it wasn't me :( ,they are trying to get more in , they had a Rock Island .45 (sarco?) in there that was put together pretty good and cheap also $350 US , several of them are being turned into builders guns .
 
Mr. Cain R:

Please understand that I was not trying to offend you or to cast aspersions on your shooting prowess. If your method of evaluating handguns is to "compare two radically different types of pistols", please continue to do so.

I will, however, admit to being somewhat confused. If you truly utilize this unorthodox method of comparing handguns, and if you are such an experienced (dare I say "expert") shooter, then why are you asking for advice on this forum? Sounds like you may already know all there is to know about choosing a handgun.

I do plead ignorance in the matter of your not being able to defend yourself in Canada with a handgun. I was not aware of this, and extend my sincere condolences. Perhaps you should buy a Glock, instead of the high priced custom pistol, and use the savings to move out of Canada.

Dawg23
 
Expert? Nope not by a long shot. A fellow who shoots a lot? Yup thats me. Why revolvers? Because thats what I have right now.

Up until I shot the Glock I had only handled one for a short time.

The .40 Glock was the first time I had fired a Glock, I had fired a Para Ord .40 at a previous range session and it seemed pretty darn nice. But after reading about the Glock in Boston T. Party's excellent "Guns and Courage" I felt compelled to try one.

This issue seems to be a love it or hate type of issue. Upon reflection, I'll give it another go the next time I'm in the city. I do LIKE the fact that the Glock is ready right out of the box, and is very reliable and has good customer service. I don't like it's inability to fire cast bullets. Remeber, getting an aftermarket barrel is not so simple up here, each I beleive requires paperwork and transport permits. Yes thats right a transport permit. By law anytime you transport a pistol -restricted or prohibited- you need to apply for a permit. Blanket permits are available to travel to and from your range, but a special permit must be had to take it to a 'smith or to a repair facility. They are free but take up to 5 days to be issued. Royal pain? You bet but thats what the Eastern Liberals pushed down our throats, once again keep in mind Ontario controls the Parliament in this country, we Westerners have little voice in government.

The Glock people really do like them, by the sounds of it, a lot. Perhaps 20 rounds did not do it justice. I'll try one again next time I'm in the city.
 
Last edited:
Do you have the opportunity to try a HK USP? If you're looking for out of the box reliability with good accurracy, these might work for you. If you have the extra cash, you could get an Expert model for even better accuracy.
Just a thought.
 
I've looked at them, but not shot one. What are they like? Good, bad or what. I know little about them other than they are priced near the Glock and Para.
 
OT:

ryucasta:

I don't shoot lead through a Glock factory barrel. It's the recipe for a kaboom. Just ask over at GT and search the archives. Probably a good dozen plus kabooms from lead shooters in factory barrel. Not work the savings. Just buy copper plateds and save yourself some cleaning time and the smoke.

And I love my LSWCs in my revolvers but hate that smoke and cleanup. The loads are just too sweet. My SW 610 and my Redhawk can shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards for hunting.

But I do shoot LSWCs and LTCs in my aftermarket barrels in my Glocks as well as my revolvers. And after 100 or so rounds, accuracy can and does drop.

A couple of passes with a Bore Snake and you're back in business.

Ask any benchrest shooter.

BOT:

Tamara has the right position here.

Buy what you like, what suits you. PERIOD.

But I would recommend avoiding adverserial words or mine is better than yours type language.

Ever hear the story about the frog who carrie dthe snake on its back across the stream?

Some people do like to scrap around here, myself included. So avoid them there fightin words!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top