NM v Alec Baldwin 7/8/2024
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The Verminator
Moderator
Yeah, that's not enough.........not nearly.
He's arrogant scum and has caused not only this death and a severe injury, but the conviction of the armorer that he hired cheap because she was inexperienced and then he gave her other duties and didn't allow her to do a proper job.
She's a good person........the daughter of one of America's great pistol experts and another of Baldwin's victims......ruined her life.
Worse.......he will probably skate with probation--trying to present himself as "just a dumb actor."
I forgot how slow trials like this start out . Laying all the foundations for later is boring ! Tomorrow morning should start out good . Cross of the crime scene tech is going to have some fireworks . On direct she talked all about the different ammo and the gun . Even got into the FBI testing . Prosecution dialed back the questions this time compared to the armorer trial . I don’t think that’s going to help . I believe the defense is going to go hard on her . I expect a lot of objections during cross .
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As far as her experience, her father, Thell Reed stated that she was capable of doing the job as well as he was.
""She knows what to do," he added. "She does the job as good as I do now.""
"She didn't need anymore training, she's got me," Reed told ABC News
One of the things that came out at her trial was that she had both marijuana and cocaine on set.
Honestly, I don't think it's necessary to look around for someone else to blame for the situation she's currently in.
stagpanther
New member
And, if I recall correctly (not a given at my age) she reportedly had live shooting sessions using live ammo in the guns used on the set. I have zero empathy for her, drugs and live ammo--no ambiguity whatsoever IMO how live ammo found its way into the firearm Baldwin had.
The Verminator
Moderator
She was inexperienced and vulnerable to pressure from Baldwin and the other bosses.
She was in her first job and afraid of being fired.
They hired her because they were a low budget operation and they could get her cheap. Experienced armorers are expensive.
They gave her duties not normally given to an armorer and interfered with her real duties.
Her dad bragging about her is truly irrelevant........and not helpful in this case.
Honestly, she wasn't perfect, but she deserved a lot better than she got.
The Verminator
Moderator
The more I hear about this the more I think that the fix was in and it's been decided that the novice armorer has been selected as a scapegoat.
Just a quick check turned this up:
https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/veteran-armorer-turned-down-rust-job/
And this:
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/rust-armorer-osha-trial-defense-1235930982/
Just a quick check turned this up:
https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/veteran-armorer-turned-down-rust-job/
And this:
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/rust-armorer-osha-trial-defense-1235930982/
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Seems the smartest guy in this situation is the guy who handed Baldwin the gun (assistant director??) and told him it was a cold gun.
Note that within days of the announcement there would be charges filed (and before anyone was specifically named) he took a plea deal and pled guilty to a lesser offense. That took him out of contention for being charged with manslaughter. I wonder what he knew that we don't know, and probably never will know?
Note that within days of the announcement there would be charges filed (and before anyone was specifically named) he took a plea deal and pled guilty to a lesser offense. That took him out of contention for being charged with manslaughter. I wonder what he knew that we don't know, and probably never will know?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
He was an experienced 2nd Director, and had been in the film industry long enough that he was close to retirement. IMHO, what he knew was that this production was NOT following the SAG (Screen Actors Guild) safety protocols for handling firearms. Once the carelessness resulted in a death, the handwriting was on the wall that anyone and everyone who handled that gun that day would be in the cross-hairs, so he was smart to cut a deal and walk away when he could.44 AMP said:
He certainly knew that the SAG protocols required him to witness the loading of the gun ... which he did not do.
A jury of her peers heard the evidence and decided she was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the crime she was accused of. The judge gave her the maximum sentence possible.
The bottom line is that her main job was to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen. That's why she was hired. When your primary job is to prevent something and it happens anyway, it's hard to argue that you're a scapegoat.
Was she inexperienced? One of the best armorers in the business says she had the experience and training she needed to do the job as well as he could.
It's certainly not helpful to your argument, but if you think what her dad says about her is irrelevant, you're missing the point. Why do you think she was hired instead of, for example, Karen Jane Doe who lives down the street from the producer and knows nothing about guns? She was hired because she got a recommend from one of the top armorers in the business. If you want to blame someone for the position she was put in, blame her father for telling people that she was as good as he was. If you want to blame someone for the death that happened on her watch, blame her father for telling folks she could handle the job.
Was she pressured? Her job is to maintain firearm safety on the set even when things are hectic.
She (obviously) allowed live ammo on set and didn't control it properly.
She had drugs on set.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it will be a pretty steep climb to make any progress down the road you've chosen.
I get it, you like Hannah, you don't like Baldwin. But that's not how the justice system works. We should all be very happy that trials aren't popularity contests.
The Verminator
Moderator
LOL! Your faith in the justice system is endearing.
The view of an unbiased source trumps her dad's bragging.
"So I would never in a million years have a young person who was unseasoned, unskilled and [had] bare minimum credentials wrangle weapons on a major film for with a major star.”
“She was over her head from the moment she took the job,” Zoromski said.
That from a seasoned veteran armorer who turned down the job because it was obviously headed for trouble.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/veteran-armorer-turned-down-rust-job/
The view of an unbiased source trumps her dad's bragging.
"So I would never in a million years have a young person who was unseasoned, unskilled and [had] bare minimum credentials wrangle weapons on a major film for with a major star.”
“She was over her head from the moment she took the job,” Zoromski said.
That from a seasoned veteran armorer who turned down the job because it was obviously headed for trouble.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/veteran-armorer-turned-down-rust-job/
You're just trying to deflect attention from the fact that your assertion that she's a scapegoat is laughable. She very obviously screwed up by the numbers. She allowed live ammo on the set and didn't control it properly. She brought drugs on set. She let people distract her from her primary responsibility and by doing so she failed in her primary task of keeping people unshot on set. She was getting paid to do a job and did it so badly that someone is dead as a result and someone else is badly injured. There's no refuting any of that.
She was in her middle 20s at the time the shooting took place. How old does a person have to be before they can do a job right? We know she had proper training because we know who trained her. We give members of the military tremendous responsibility at that age.
But that's really sort of moot given your argument. Let's assume Zoromski is 100% correct.
That still leaves us with the fact that the only reason she got the job was that one of the best armorers in the business strongly endorsed her. If you can't stand the idea that she was very obviously negligent, as the evidence clearly shows, and you feel you must cast about for someone to blame for her being in over her head, the person who got her into the mess by making people think she was qualified for the job is quite obviously your best candidate. But you can't admit that because you like Thell Reed and you seem unable to assign responsibility if it makes someone you like look bad.
If that's how you want to live your life, I guess that's your decision. But it's sort of pointless for you to discuss legal matters since outcomes don't hinge on who you personally like or don't like.
The Verminator
Moderator
LOL!
The only reason she got the job was because they could get a novice CHEAP.
It was only her second job.
They refused to deal with an experienced armorer and TOLD him they were low budget. (Read the link I gave you.)
They were so low budget that they gave her other duties and refused to let her do her job properly.
Her dad? He should have bought her a better lawyer.
And you? You make a list of allegations by the prosecutor and act like allegations are facts?
Come on, man.
You are essentially claiming Thell Reed lied about his daughter's competence but you still won't countenance any responsibility on his part even though no one would have hired her if it weren't for his endorsement.
You deny the facts that led to Gutierrez-Reed's conviction and sentencing because you've decided she's innocent.
And yet you think I'm the one who's being unreasonable.
You've made it plain that you don't believe evidence, even if it leads to conviction. That means that anything you state with regard to trials, guilt or acquittal or sentencing are basically just your personal opinions.
What you are saying boils down to this, whether you understand it or not, whether you will admit it or not, whether you can see how transparent you are or not.
"I like Hannah Gutierrez-Reed and her father so she's a scapegoat. I don't like Alec Baldwin so he must be guilty."
Ok. Duly noted. Of course that's not how trials work, but ok--we hear your opinion loud and clear.
We do. But its also in a vastly differently structured environment. Also keep in mind that in the military, if an officer orders it done (rightly or wrongly) it generally gets done. And, if/when something goes wrong, they figure it out afterwards.
No way to know if its correct or not, but what I heard was that she got the job because a friend recommended her to the Rust production. Not her dad. I'm sure she was properly trained, BUT.....
there was no experienced "adult" supervision. She was on her own, without a guiding mentor, and it seems that on that set, once the days "work" was done, there was some "partying" going on.
Question: They say she had illegal drugs, was she ever charged with having them? Just curious...
Right now, she's not on trial. Baldwin's defense team right now is focusing on the "sloppy" investigation done.
Someone put (at least one) live round into the gun Baldwin was handed.
The armorer has been convicted of negligence for allowing that to happen.
Someone else UNLOADED the gun, after the shooting and BEFORE the police arrived. Resulting in no clear chain of custody between the accident and the time the authorities arrived and took possession.
And, it appears that someone is still unknown.
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