(NJ) Officer Killed While Cleaning Gun

The Sigpro is different than the other P-series guns in it's takedown procedure. Both the P-series and Sigpro require you to lock the slide back before disassembly. That way, you can eject a round if it's in the pipe and/or be more likely to look to see if a round is still in there.

The best way I've found to disassemble the Sigpro is to drop the mag, lock the slide back, check the chamber. Then, right hand index finger goes in the ejection port, right hand thumb supports behind in "web" area of grip. Left hand on slide. Pull with right index finger and unlock slide and use left hand to help add pressure against the slide releasing. When the slide is in proper orientation, pop out the slide lock with left hand index or middle finger. To reassemble, put slide back on frame and push it back until it stops. Then, insert slide lock into hole. Using same grip as before with take down, pull slide back and when in proper slide orientation, pop the slide lock in with left hand thumb. I found with this method I can field strip it really fast.

The Sigpro disassembly is slightly more of a pain than the P-series but is similar to Hipowers, 1911's, Slick & Willies, CZ's in that the slide stop comes out. People probably think I'm paranoid, but I always lock the slide back and check the chamber visually any time I handle a gun. Even if I set it down and go in the next room and I'm the only one at home, I recheck it; besides, it's fun to rack.
 
FWIW, one of the first shootings I knew of personally was of a bank cashier who was "killed while cleaning his revolver".

He was a Catholic, one son was a priest and a daughter was a nun. The coroner and police chief were also Catholics. Catholics who commit suicide cannot be buried with the rites of the church.

Two weeks later, bank auditors found that the accident victim had "borrowed" $35,000 without taking out a loan.

Jim
 
I'm with LongShot... very paranoid. I drop the mag on my semi's and rack the slide at least twice while the whole time looking at the feed ramp and chamber / I unload a revolver and hit the ejection rod twice while watching the cylinder. This is "just in case I am tired or my eyes are hurting". When I go into my safe, I *know* which firearms are loaded.. basically, they all are, except some are more loaded then others (I do keep loaded firearms in my safe). I don't *clean* the outside of the firearm, my cleaning session incorporates the entire firearm, inside and out. I don't *wipe* down the firearm, I clean the whole firearm, then wipe it down, and then store it. Any firearm that is "given" to me is checked, at least twice, before I check out the sights, the movement, etc.. I like guns, I like to handle guns, I like to clean guns, but I know what a gun can do. I respect the gun, as I do the knife, the car, and the water. I know that all can provide exercise, convenence and fun but they can also cause death, destruction, and heartbreak. The thing that has kept me alive during this whole time in my life is one simple concept.... Education. I know the firearm rules (of which I recite EVERY time I pick one up), I know safe knife handling rules, I know the rules of water safety, and I've read the car owners manual as well as the new road guides put out by the DMV (read them, they "change" things every now and then). Why do I do this, because I respect what tools can do for me and what they can do to me (or others) if handled improperly. But hey, I'm one of those "stupid" American's who just don't see the "big picture".

USP45usp
 
PARANOID??? OK, I have to correct you people, and those of you who disagree with me shouldn't own a gun...

There is no such thing is too paranoid when you are dealing with guns!!! If I checked a gun, and then hand it to you, heavens no, don't trust me!!! Check for yourself. I have an semi-auto, and I do the same thing, pop out the mag, rack it back, and if I don't see sunlight shining out the other end of the barrel, it's time to redo everything again!

Let me tell you guys something that happened to me that scared me to death.

I went shooting with my friend, he brought his dad's gun for me to try. A Walther 38 or something like that. Anyway, I drop the mag, and rack it back, I saw that the chamber didn't look like it had a bullet in it, the gun was pointed down, and so no light came through the barrel and I didn't think anything of it. I was GOING TO pull the trigger (dry fire) to see how it felt, but decided against it.

I walked up to the lane, and pointed down range and then dry fired to get a feel for the trigger weight. To my surprise/shock/horror, the gun went off! A bullet fired!!! WTF??? Well, you KNOW I scrambled for the brass, and when I found it, guess what? Well, the bullet was malformed. It slid into the chamber, the rim was too small and didn't sit. But when I brought the gun back up, it slide back, and was seated again. So it did fire. There was a bullet in the chamber!!! I didn't see it, and I checked twice actually.

So those of you who fear the "Brandon Lee" situation, you aren't paranoid!!! Rack that slide a few times first, and make sure you see daylight out the other end of the barrel!

I went into a gun store once and I asked to see a gun. The guy handed it to me. I told him I don't grab guns from people until I know they've checked it. So I asked him to check it before he handed it to me. He bitched and whined about how he checked it a minute ago, and how I'm too anal. What if someone lated a mag or a round in there in the mean time? I don't know that, he doesn't know that! So I just left the store.

Gun owners, we are all responsible for safety, and we are all responsible for preaching safety, no such thing as too safe, 1 bullet is all it takes to end a life or worse yet, give those Democrats reason to take away our guns.

You should no longer be allowed to own a gun the moment you lose respect for it's ability to take away a human life.

'Nuff Said.
Albert
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M1911:
Huh? I'm confused. I have a P239 in .40. The recoil spring is not that stout (I'm a 5' 9", 160lb mouse potato). To field strip this gun, you remove magazine, rack the slide to empty the chamber, lock the slide open, turn the disassembly lever down, then push the slide assembly off the front of the gun. There's no retaining pin to slide out, and you can't disassemble the gun unless the slide is locked all the way open.

What sig are you talking about?

M1911[/quote]

I believe he is referring to the Sig Pro series?
 
Paranoia is a good thing. One time 2 rookies arrested a guy with a Tec 9. They brought both into the station house and asked me to check the 9. I took it to the unloading port and pulled the mag. It had ammo in it so I assumed it had a round in the chamber. However, when I pulled the slide back, nothing ejected. One of the officers thanked me and wanted to take the weapon back to the desk officer. I didn`t give it to him and reseated the bolt. I racked it twice more and sure enough, a round popped out. Not that big a deal, just experience. At the time semi-autos weren`t widely issued and as many of you know, a lot of cops aren`t that familiar with guns other than their own.
AFA the suicide angle goes, it`s possible I guess but I`ve known quite a few suicides. All were head shots. A bullet to the stomach is not a guarantee of instant death and it can be a slow, painful death.
 
Gusgus,

I've only been shooting handguns regularly for the past 25 years, but never in my experience, have I seen a situation where anyone points a gun at their belly! Not while cleaning, not while horsing around, and not intentionally!

Even an absolute fool intent on self destruction would not shoot himself in the belly, and chance the excruciating pain of a botched job.

This poor fellow must have had assistance from someone.

Bill
 
I would have thought it quite easy when swabbing the bore with patches. Brace gun between feet, barrel pointing at chest, stomach area and work rod down muzzle using both hands. I've done it myself.

This story did give me cold shivers, how long did that poor SOB sit looking at his blood pumping out of his guts through what I assume was a .40 caliber hole. Do we know what model of Sig was involved and what round was used or any other details that may or may not have a bearing on the possible chain of events. AD's or ND's that end up with people getting shot always get me the worst, I just got through watching a COPS show where a teenager had shot his friend in the face with his Dad's "unloaded" .38, the kid was in shock and just kept saying over and over how his friend just slumped backwards with quote "all this blood spraying out of his face".

Mike H
 
This isn't directly on the topic but related to gun safety. I was listening to NPR
and they were discussing a restaurant named Chad's Trading Post - seemed a kid named Chad and a buddy were playing with Dad's guns and
Chad got killed.

Since Chad wanted to run a restaurant when he grew up, they built a shrine to him in the form of a restaurant. The waiters were shirts saying Chad's Dad, Sister, Friend, etc. Pictures all over the place. When one of them got married, they had a life size picture of Chad in the wedding group picture.

Frankly, they sounded obsessed. The Dad kept crying and crying about the accident. It was his fault as he allowed access to loaded guns.

About the suicide deal. Folks sometimes don't shoot themselves in the head as they know that is a giveaway that it is suicide. Also, some don't think straight. Remember the CNO who shot himself in the chest.

Folks will spread out all their cleaning stuff, sit by it and shoot themselves. Get themselves dirty a bit. It's to avoid the shame of the family admitting to a suicide and the insurance.
 
Hi, Twoblink,

The situation you describe sounds like someone dropped in the wrong caliber ammo and it went out of sight until the gun was pointed upward.

The most likely situation is a .32ACP, which will drop into a 9mm chamber but its rim will stop at the chamber shoulder. The chamber looks empty, but if the gun is pointed upward, the smaller round can fall back against the breech face and be fired.

Other cartridges (.380, 9x18 Makarov, 9x18 Ultra, will not drop into a 9x19 chamber far enough to be invisible.

This is just another safety concern. Always make sure the ammo you are using is right for the gun. For example, a .40 S&W can drop into a .45 barrel in the same way and can then result in a blown barrel if a .45 cartridge is chambered behind it and fired.

Jim
 
Be carefull! Because...nobody ever "plans" an accident!

------------------
...let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

[This message has been edited by Snow Man (edited October 23, 2000).]
 
This always strikes me as kind of a wierd conversation.

As far as safety goes, if you hand me a gun, any gun, I will only accept it if I know how to check to see whether it is loaded or not. When I take the gun, I will always check to see if it is loaded or not. Drop Mag, Slide back etc. Anyone who has a problem with this is not someone I will go shooting with. When you take a gun in your hand, it becomes your responsibility period.

An AD is when a gun goes off due to mechanical malfunction and should not harm anyone, because you should not have it pointed where it could hurt anyone.

An ND (negligent discharge) is when safety rules aren't followed. I do not wipe, handle, play with, a loaded weapon. If I feel the urge to mess around with it I will unload it. When it is loaded it remains in a location where I can reach it, or it is at the range.

There are no excuses, you are only left with the results of the shooting.
 
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