NJ cops and the P7--whats the deal?
- Thread starter Greg Bell
- Start date
I wrote the state of NJ when I heard about this and here is the reply I got:
October 20, 2000
re: H&K P7M8 Pistols
Your inquiry regarding the New Jersey State Police weapons system has been referred to this office. Please be advised that with regard to the new weapons, the Smith & Wesson Model 99, 9mm pistol was selected following an extensive weapons evaluation, testing and bidding process. A contract has been awarded and we anticipate completing the rearming transition within the next six months.
With respect to the H&K P7M8 Pistols currently issued to the State Police, following the retraining and issuance of the new weapons, those weapons being turned in will be placed in a secure storage facility maintained by the State Police. Future plans call for an in-depth study and recommendations on the final disposal of these weapons. It is understood, however, that any resale or reissue proposal must be limited to a law enforcement or military application. Under no circumstances would this inventory of weapons be placed in the flow of commerce, thereby making them accessible to the general public.
I trust this information is responsive to your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. O'Reilly
Administrator
TOJ/HMC:sm
When further questions came up on various boards, I challenged his first statement and got this:
November 14, 2000
As I had indicated in my earlier response to you regarding the used State Police H&K P7M8 pistols, once the State Police are retrained with the new weapon, the used H&Ks will be turned in and stored in a secure facility maintained by the State Police. To date, the State Police have not been fully retrained in the new weapon system Therefore, the Troopers are presently armed with the H&K P7M8 pistols that your internet reference claims to have purchased. It is a totally erroneous story. While one can speculate on the motives of the writer of such stories, I can assure you that those H&K P7M8 pistols issued to Troopers of the New Jersey State Police will not be offered for resale to members of the general public.
Once again, I trust this information is responsive to your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. O'Reilly
Administrator
Office of the Attorney General
October 20, 2000
re: H&K P7M8 Pistols
Your inquiry regarding the New Jersey State Police weapons system has been referred to this office. Please be advised that with regard to the new weapons, the Smith & Wesson Model 99, 9mm pistol was selected following an extensive weapons evaluation, testing and bidding process. A contract has been awarded and we anticipate completing the rearming transition within the next six months.
With respect to the H&K P7M8 Pistols currently issued to the State Police, following the retraining and issuance of the new weapons, those weapons being turned in will be placed in a secure storage facility maintained by the State Police. Future plans call for an in-depth study and recommendations on the final disposal of these weapons. It is understood, however, that any resale or reissue proposal must be limited to a law enforcement or military application. Under no circumstances would this inventory of weapons be placed in the flow of commerce, thereby making them accessible to the general public.
I trust this information is responsive to your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. O'Reilly
Administrator
TOJ/HMC:sm
When further questions came up on various boards, I challenged his first statement and got this:
November 14, 2000
As I had indicated in my earlier response to you regarding the used State Police H&K P7M8 pistols, once the State Police are retrained with the new weapon, the used H&Ks will be turned in and stored in a secure facility maintained by the State Police. To date, the State Police have not been fully retrained in the new weapon system Therefore, the Troopers are presently armed with the H&K P7M8 pistols that your internet reference claims to have purchased. It is a totally erroneous story. While one can speculate on the motives of the writer of such stories, I can assure you that those H&K P7M8 pistols issued to Troopers of the New Jersey State Police will not be offered for resale to members of the general public.
Once again, I trust this information is responsive to your inquiry.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. O'Reilly
Administrator
Office of the Attorney General
It gets worse.
First, in spite of the NJSP LEOs mostly wanting to keep the P7M8s they were using, they were forced to adopt (after "extensive testing and consideration") the SW99 POS pistol, in a DAO version (crappy trigger), THEN, in typical bureaucratic fashion, after the pistols were already ordered and shipped, it was decided that the pistols had to be RETROFITTED WITH DECOCKING LEVERS (!?!), of course at taxpayer expense.
NJ is one of the places where I'm glad I don't live.
First, in spite of the NJSP LEOs mostly wanting to keep the P7M8s they were using, they were forced to adopt (after "extensive testing and consideration") the SW99 POS pistol, in a DAO version (crappy trigger), THEN, in typical bureaucratic fashion, after the pistols were already ordered and shipped, it was decided that the pistols had to be RETROFITTED WITH DECOCKING LEVERS (!?!), of course at taxpayer expense.
NJ is one of the places where I'm glad I don't live.
HeadHunter
New member
From the DTI Website:
2 Oct 00
2 Oct 00
I have a family member who is a LEO in NJ, though not a state trooper. I asked him about this today and his response was that lot of troopers hurt themselves with the P7's. Apparently they were used with the old revolvers for which the holsters were designed such way that they requiered to have their finger on the trigger when removing the gun (a release button being in the trigger guard). Doing the same thing with a hand cocker and a light trigger put a lot of holes in troopers feet and legs. He does believe that the P99 has enough safety's to make things a tad safer.
Thats just one other opinion out there. Do note that for a LEO his a pretty cool gun nut himself.
Lochaber
Thats just one other opinion out there. Do note that for a LEO his a pretty cool gun nut himself.
Lochaber
Could G.W. sign an executive order nuking NJ or mandate that more toxic waste be dumped there. The imbecillic statement of this govt. flunky is just too silly (or sinister?).
These things would retail for a fair chunk of change and would be very unlikely to stand in for a nickel plated Jennings in another liquor store holdup. Instead, they'll be rusting in a box or two in some storage locker.
These things would retail for a fair chunk of change and would be very unlikely to stand in for a nickel plated Jennings in another liquor store holdup. Instead, they'll be rusting in a box or two in some storage locker.
I gotta agree with Russell92 here... before we go blasting, or forever mutating the folks in NJ, we have to take care of Kalifornia! 
After all, hasn't it always been that whatever Kali is doing now, the rest of the country is doing 5 - 10 years later? 
We should BAN hair gel and cellular phones in the People's Republic... that'd mess 'em up even more than the maniacal masses of assault weapon carrying zombie hordes that sweep through the streets every day killing thousands of pregnant teenage nuns!!!!
Was that too much?
After all, hasn't it always been that whatever Kali is doing now, the rest of the country is doing 5 - 10 years later? We should BAN hair gel and cellular phones in the People's Republic... that'd mess 'em up even more than the maniacal masses of assault weapon carrying zombie hordes that sweep through the streets every day killing thousands of pregnant teenage nuns!!!!
Was that too much?
drothen,
I was one of your "internet references". The P7 pistol that I bought was endeed former NJ state police weapon. This was verified by the HKUSA, when the gun was shipped to HK for repairs (search for my post on this). Most of the HKP7M8s made in 1986-87 with 5 digit serial numbers starting from 92*** were NJ state police issues.
This, buy the way is very obvious by looking at the guns in that range (I have seen several, very little shot but with worn/scratched grip panels-evidence of open holster carry next to metal objects (keys, DeJamer tool, seatbelt bucle ets).
For the future reference, a Massachusetts gun store, Four Seasons Firearms (www.fourseasonsguns.com) used to carry these police trade ins. They were not refurbished "German police guns" with mill mark, but early US import guns with first issue triggers and arming levers with evidence of extenssive carry.
I was one of your "internet references". The P7 pistol that I bought was endeed former NJ state police weapon. This was verified by the HKUSA, when the gun was shipped to HK for repairs (search for my post on this). Most of the HKP7M8s made in 1986-87 with 5 digit serial numbers starting from 92*** were NJ state police issues.
This, buy the way is very obvious by looking at the guns in that range (I have seen several, very little shot but with worn/scratched grip panels-evidence of open holster carry next to metal objects (keys, DeJamer tool, seatbelt bucle ets).
For the future reference, a Massachusetts gun store, Four Seasons Firearms (www.fourseasonsguns.com) used to carry these police trade ins. They were not refurbished "German police guns" with mill mark, but early US import guns with first issue triggers and arming levers with evidence of extenssive carry.
Although the decocking button is smaller, the P99 QA has a decocker - http://www.walther-usa.com/p99qa.htm
drothen,
No offence taken, obviously. I just wanted to reassure people, that while NJ burocrats are bragging about their safe way of "disposing of firearms so that they do not become avialeble to general public", these same guns are being sold to distributers, who sell them to gun shops.
This way, if anything ever happens, involving these p7s,
NJSP can always say "...well, we sold those old useless junk guns to the police distributer so that they can be exported out of the country" or somethink like that.
No offence taken, obviously. I just wanted to reassure people, that while NJ burocrats are bragging about their safe way of "disposing of firearms so that they do not become avialeble to general public", these same guns are being sold to distributers, who sell them to gun shops.
This way, if anything ever happens, involving these p7s,
NJSP can always say "...well, we sold those old useless junk guns to the police distributer so that they can be exported out of the country" or somethink like that.
The guns four seasons in Ma are selling are not NJ state police weapons. These weapons came from a dept in Ma that transitioned to New Duty weaons Via a Pa distibiuter. I know because I have a relative that is currently on this Dept. My personal P7 has a 92 serial number and is not a NJ stae police gun. I bought this gun New in 1987.
What is the deal with these cops? We just aren't getting the quality of cop we used to. With so many people going to college and trying to go dot.com, the only bozos left either get another degree, go into the military, or go into law enforcement on a whim without ever learning how to shoot.
Then when they shoot themselves in the foot, it's the gun's fault. Bullpucky. Bunch of old farts who broke the first rule of safety which is finger off of the trigger. Most of the troopers who used revolvers have retired. It's a semi-auto force now across the country except in hicksville.
Give P7s a bad name because they handle guns safely. Well now they're in trouble with those SW99 POS.
Our Port of Seattle cops and Seal Beach CA cops aren't having those problems.
Then when they shoot themselves in the foot, it's the gun's fault. Bullpucky. Bunch of old farts who broke the first rule of safety which is finger off of the trigger. Most of the troopers who used revolvers have retired. It's a semi-auto force now across the country except in hicksville.
Give P7s a bad name because they handle guns safely. Well now they're in trouble with those SW99 POS.
Our Port of Seattle cops and Seal Beach CA cops aren't having those problems.