Night sight observations...

I'm a fan of being able to hit a man sized target without sights at all at the ranges one would engage targets with a handgun at.

If you can only use the night sights when its difficult to see your target, I would be more worried about positive id and other factors.

For these reasons I don't have night sights. I need to get me a good light.

They can also give away your position, if you're worried about things like that. I'm not.
 
Based on my assessment, nightsights are perfect for you and anyone else in a situation that warrants firing accurately at unidentified targets.
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JohnKSa

Even when I was in Iraq I NEVER fired at unidentified targets and our night time equipment is much better than tritium sights.....

Here in the USA I have no need for them. If time comes I need to ID a target I will use very bright white light that blinds and alows me to ID. If it is not a BG I do not fire, if it is then they just saw the light.

When we did hard knocks we used white light and the first reaction was to cover thier face, close eyes, and look away. If they needed shooting then they got what was coming to them, if not they were questioned and handled as needed from there.

Besides, we all should practice so much that when we point a pistol it should be like pointing your finger. If you need a visual aid to align your sights and practice alot, then your pistol does not fit you properly. At that point your problem is much bigger than a sight problem. Take it for what its worth, but thats my experiences with a dash of opinion.........
 
Some interesting thoughts, opinions and experiences posted in this thread.

Not everybody is likely ever going to agree on the usefulness of 'enhancements' when it comes to the aiming devices we use on handguns. Not unexpected.

During the first 15+ years of my LE career I wasn't exactly a proponent of tritium night sights. This including working days, afternoons, evenings, indoors, outdoors, bright sunshine, bad weather, using flashlights, patrol car lights, ambient lighting, etc. etc..

Sometime between approx years 15-20 I developed a respect for the occasional benefits to be experienced when using night sights in some situations.

That's also about the same time I realized that these benefits were seemingly present, or lacking, to various degrees among the different manufacturer's night sight offerings. Why should that be surprising? Just like anything else, right? ;)

I look at night sights as offering a balanced compromise.

They're useful in certain situations and circumstances.

Like all compromises, however, their 'benefits' may be negated in other situations, or even become 'disadvantages' in some situations.

For example, there are some production periods/designs where I do not find them as easily used as plain black or 3-dot (white) sights in conditions of outdoor/bright sunlight. This can vary with the user's vision a great deal, too. Two folks standing side-by-side may have exactly opposite opinions when trying the same weapon/night sight combination. They're each right ... for themselves.

Bottom line?

I don't think they were ever intended to be a 'replacement' for independent/supplemental light sources (like flashlights) and being able to clearly see your intended target. :)

In the third decade of my LE career I found many situations in which the night sights on my guns served a useful and immediately practical purpose ... for me.

In the 'right' circumstances, being immediately useful only ONCE might be well worth the investment.

When it came time to replace our aging inventory of issued weapons I suggested we consider the minimal added expense of ordering the weapons with night sights (new ones with nicely visible white rings surrounding the tritium capsule lenses :) ).

There weren't that many of our folks who even knew what night sights were when they learned their new weapons were equipped with them ... (come on, we're talking about cops, after all :p ) ...

But it also wasn't long before I started hearing feedback from some of our folks who discovered an immediate benefit to having them on their new guns, having had the opportunity to use them when weapons were drawn and presented during the course of their duties. Lots of pleased folks. Fine. That's why we decided to order them, after all. Seems to have worked out okay.

Nowadays a goodly number of my personally-owned handguns have been equipped with them, or ordered with them in the first place. Not all of them, by any means, but a goodly number of them.

I've come to prefer (not demand) to have the weapon chosen for potential night time HD to have at least a front post night sight, although I also keep at least one flashlight next to my sleeping mat. Night sights are nothing more than one type of enhanced sighting device.

It's still critical, however, to be able to SEE and IDENTIFY not only your intended target, but to understand what's 'downrange'. I prefer to emphasize using light sources for seeing what's out there beyond my weapon's muzzle ... and for employing that defensive/distracting (if only momentary) 'wall of light'.
 
SPwMeps1.jpg


Meprolite dot on a Ruger SP101...made the gun a whole bunch easier to hit with in daytime shooting, too,
 
I've tried it both ways ... and I prefer night sights. My home is in a very dark area, no outside light coming in except perhaps moonlight ... we keep a small nightlight on near the kitchen but otherwise the house is dark ... I've tried moving through the house with a black-sighted revolver and it was very difficult to align the sights on a target. When I got my 1911, I ordered it with night sights; the same exercise is far easier ... knowing where your front sight is is, in my opinion, worth the cost. I train with a Surefire light and it's a huge advantage, but I'm not shining the light on a target steadily ... find the BG, blind him, light off, use the night sight to find the front sight and fire ... that's certainly not scientific research, but it works for me and makes me feel more confident in a shooting situation, if I'm ever unlucky enough to be involved in one.
 
I have them on my SP101 and while they aren't essential they can provide an extra edge in some SD situations. Since they are relatively inexpensive, last 10 years, and I have to carry a front sight anyways it might as well be one that could provide that extra advantage.

Targets can also be verified verbally in addition to visually. Only my wife and I live in my house. Our family is all 1300 miles away. Nobody but us have keys to the doors and the doors and windows are all locked at night. If there is someone in the house and my wife is next to me in bed then I have just identified the target.
 
Off topic but . . .

How about a laser sight instead if you are going to spend the money? Red dot falls on target in anything below normal daylight levels no questions asked. The down side of laser sights are that others can see it to, but in the scenarios mentioned, no ones going to notice a red dot in a fire fight.
 
I have tried meps and tijicons, and both work very very well. I would never carry a defensive weapon without them.

The advantages are many. Obviously, they aren't going to illuinate in all sitations, but I find that if I have the target illuminated with a surefire, and I am in the dark, the sights are glowing.

They can be used to quickly locate the gun in the dark whether on the dresser or closet or safe.

I can't imagine one good reason not to have them. It's kinda like a laser. You know there are limitations.

Use it when you need it, don't when you can't. There is no loss in utility to the weapon.
 
I've noticed that although iron sights and targets are visible in daylight, practical shooters like the fiber optic sights because the bright red or green dots are easier to acquire than a dull iron sight.

Then why wouldn't it be desirable in low light situations to have bright green dots on your gun? Wouldn't it make it easier and faster to acquire a sight picture under stress?

As a matter of fact I got to experience this, and saw empirical evidence. We started shooting some of our IPSC matches at night in an indoor range in which the lights were set at the firing line and at 25 and 50 feet. We were shooting from in front of the firing line where it was relatively dark. I was shooting my Glock 30 with night sights and other shooters had their guns with fiber optic sights and plain old iron sights.

I placed significantly better in those darker matches with my sights glowing. My performance was better in relation to the other shooters because I could see my sights better.
 
Looking back at my post I hope my point is not missed. Night sights are not necessary, but they are advantageous. Some may think their utility is not justified by the expense. For those I say great. Whatever floats your boat.

You can shoot anything you want with a $300 used glock or a revolver. Surely a glock or even a revolver is all that is necessary. Bullets come out and hit the target. But some people will spend the extra money for a good 1911, sig or h&k. Some wish to shoot better, by a certain margin for an added expense.

And lights are necessary, with or without night sights, IMO, any time it is too dark to see your target.
 
Shooting in the dark

After a training class (I've started quite a few posts like that in the few days since I took it) I have a new way at looking at night sights and low light shooting. We had a three hour low light/dark shooting session to wrap up day one of training. We all had mini-lights and a few guys had night sights.

Before using the lights we did an interesting drill, our instructor told us to draw to ready, close our eyes, then present from ready and shoot (eyes still closed). Not one student in the class shot outside of the middle circle on the training target (about 6-8 inch circle in the upper chest area, not like most CHL targets). We repeated the drill four times from ready. We had a few people shoot some fliers but for the most part all shots were within that circle. We then repeated the drill from the holster a few times. Same results. Eyes closed every time.

We pasted targets and were taught how to use our flashlights. Results were not much different, in some cases worse because it took a little more thinking to get used to using the light in the manner we were told to (light in non-dominant hand, under non-dominant ear low enough not to get in peripheral vision) and shooting strong hand only.

To wrap up the night he had two guys with night sights and two guys without night sights go for head shots on the targets. There was absolutely no advantage to having the night sights, very little gained from having the flashlight.

In either case muzzle blast did not stop or slow down my shooting a bit, in fact it allowed me to adjust my shot a little bit (it was pitch black and I was shooting a .45 loaded with 225 grain bullets and 5.4 grains of 231).

In cases such as clearing the house and needing to identify targets a good light is invaluable but if you already know a target is a BG and you know the approximate location of the BG I don't think nightsights give you any advantage, in fact if a BG is behind you they know where you are and you likely don't know where they are.
 
A large number of shooters never get a chance to shoot in low light at all, and so we can discount their posts on this thread. If you haven't, you haven't -- and that's no slight, simply an acknowledgement of the world for what it actually is.

Among those who have shot in low light, most have done it only once or twice, in extremely controlled and limited circumstances, with all the time in the world to shoot an unmoving cardboard target. This is light-years better than never having done anything in low light at all, but is still a long step from reality.

Some few folks have had a chance to work with moving targets in low light; others might have had a chance to engage multiple targets; others might have had a chance to move while shooting in low light. Each of these is a little closer to reality than shooting at a cardboard target while standing still, and each still leaves crucial elements out.

Rarest of all is the fortunate person who has a regular opportunity to practice in low and uneven lighting, with moving targets, while they themselves are also moving. There are two variants of this basic deal. You can use a true firearm to practice against a moving but unrealistic target such as a slider or swinger. Or you can practice against a living, breathing opponent using an unrealistic firearm such as Simunitions or Airsoft. Whichever variant you use, there's still an element of unreality.

The awful truth is that only reality is reality. Practice is not reality, and never will be. But we all try to get as close as we can.

What I know and have observed on the range:

1) Most folks who have solid basics do just fine in low light, when they are working with a static cardboard target on a static range at a distance of 4 or 5 yards.

2) Bad trigger pulls suck, whether in low light or full daylight.

3) A surprising number of people have no idea how to use a flashlight. I don't mean, how to use a flashlight plus a firearm; I mean, they don't know how to use a flashlight, and don't direct the beam at the target but instead splash the floor, walls, ceiling -- everywhere but the target. Probably early training from parents: "Cut it out! Never shine that thing in someone's eyes!!" I dunno. All I know is that it's amazing, the number of people who apparently have a mental block against directing the beam of light at the target.

4) In full daylight, everyone's trigger pulls go south the first time they try to shoot a moving target. In low light, that problem is even more pronounced. Most people suck at moving targets in low light. I mean, really and truly suck.

5) Almost nobody practices in uneven lighting, which is really what you can expect to deal with in real life. This one is worth thinking about.

6) It's all great to get a smooth silhouette of the gun on a smooth cardboard target, but in real life, the bg could be wearing anything from solid black to who-knows-what, zebra stripes maybe, or anything in between, and might be hiding behind a flowered couch or a textured grey curtain. Even if the lighting is even, and the bg in the open, there's still little chance that the visual cues you have on the range will be there when you're dealing with a moving target wearing normal human clothing. Again, this one is worth thinking about.

Me, I'll take every advantage I can get: I practice whenever I can, including getting together with range buddies to do FOF stuff in realistic surroundings. My gun is equipped with a laser and I know how to point shoot too. Night sights are "just another tool" -- but I hate that word just, because it implies that having another tool is not a valuable thing. This particular tool has no downsides and several potential upsides. So what's the deal?

Even though training is not real life, most people haven't even begun to push the limits of what can be practiced realistically. If you've practiced shooting in low light even once in your life, you've done scads better than folks who've never shot in dim lighting at all. But your experience is still a long way from reality, and that's an important thing to remember.

pax
 
I found only the front sight needs to be tritium and the rears need no white dots. But that's just me.
 
PAX,

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I am sure that my little weekend of playing commando has not prepared me to take on an army of BG's at night lol. In fact all it did was really open my eyes up to how much work I need to do to survive a "normal" defensive scenario.

I am going to try to get my club to invest in some kind of moving target (laterally at least) to give us all practice shooting at moving targets at all times of the day.

I'm not knocking night sights at all but I'd rather have a good bright flashlight any day of the week. Held in my non-dominant hand in brief flashes around shoulder/eye level to maybe give you an advantage. I think the brief flash part is important because you don't want to telegraph your position, and moving after shining it is a good idea to get out of dodge too.

I did have the pleasure of shooting a gun equipped with a laser during this night session and can honestly say I don't want to do it again. I'm sure I just need more practice and training with it but the natural tremor of your hands (I think everyone shakes just a little bit) and the way the light jumps around during recoil (again, this was probably my weakness, not the technique) actually slowed me down quite a bit. Not to mention I found myself focusing on the dot and the target vs. the handgun and the threat.

I guess my only point is that instead of investing in a set of Trijicons I think money would be better spent buying a good flashlight and ammo (if there's any change left that is) and heading out after dark. For me that is. Also working on your draw and presentation so that your sights are consistently aligned (left/right up/down) will eliminate a lot of uncertainty shooting at night so you know when you draw and present ABOUT where you're pointing (assuming you have identified the target and know the backdrop...if you can do that without light). At least within a 6 to 8 inch circle at up to 5-7 yards.

I also make a point to practice with silhouettes that are not white/black. I prefer the ones with scoring rings that fade into the background when you're not focused on them (rings are around the upper chest and window of the head around the eyes and nose only).

I will say that I think the disadvantages of night sights are:
1. They are bright. You align them on a target, your eyes are drawn to them. In pitch black it's worse, then comes the muzzle flash, then you're looking for that glow again instead of trying to align your sights by the muzzle flash.

2. They are bright. People behind you and beside you can see them just as well as you can. Hopefully you've made sure you are not in that position but hey, it is dark and you're not walking around with a flashlight beaming all over the place.

3. You get dependent on them. Until they are a factory accessory standard on everything but Sigmas and High Points you will have to make sure that you equip every weapon you might use in self defense with them.

But if the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in the eyes of the individual then great. I know a lot of older guys who have to use them because their eyes just don't focus right on black/white standard sights. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see their value but I'm afraid that a lot of people who have them believe that they are the end all be all solution for low light shooting. And as you said they are a tool, probably not the most important tool (my opinion only), but if they give you an advantage you'd be crazy not to use it.

WHEW. For anyone who bothered to read all that, Pax I'm interested to hear more about uneven lighting. Are you talking identifying targets in shadows (or you are in a shadow shooting into a light area)? That's an interesting twist that I never considered. Thank you for your in-depth response, you gave me a lot to think about. I'm still not ready to buy some night sights but I am looking at them from a different perspective. Not to mention I got some good ideas for some drills I'd like to work on.
 
As stated before they have no down sides and several up sides. I want every advantage I can afford from night sites to tactical training. For me the ability to engage a silhouette in total darkness without giving away my position is worth the 60 bucks. There are times when one knows that the dark mass is bad and in need of being stopped without using lights. You can have a positive id situation despite having to fire in total darkness.
 
'night sights' for cheapskates

Filled the little divots on my .45 sights with Liquid Paper. Let it dry, scraped off the excess with my fingernail--warla! (as they say in France) Doesn't help in the absolute dark of night, but if there's any trace of light behind me, they do show up better than without. And it's cheap!!

Maybe I'll try glow-in-the-dark Silly Putty next!
 
I did that exact same thing with my Colt .45 when the little dots flew out of the sights after the very first shot. Seems to work, and you're right it reflects light surprisingly well.
 
Night Sights

I have night sights and find that I can aquire the sights much quicker in low light not just in the dark......off course my eyes are approaching 50 years of age....your experiance may differ. The missus and I shoot at an informal competition once a week and sometimes they turn the lights down low, so we do have some "practical" experiance using them.
 
Basically, it seems that they are useful in a narrow range of lighting levels where a target can just be made out but it's too dark to align the sights, and also when you have a dark target against a light/lit background. Adding them to the pistol does provide improved capabilities in those situations, but really doesn't do anything for you if you have a flashlight or weapon light or if it's really dark.

I think that most folks would probably be better off buying a good quality flashlight and learning to use it properly. It's usually less expensive and offers more capability and versatility.
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I agree.
Tritium night sights have a narrow ambient lighting range of usefulness.
They're certainly not the be-all and end-all of in-the-dark sighting that some have heralded them to be, but they're not useless either.
I can certainly live without 'em, and may well not replace them as they lose illumination on those guns I own which do have them (tritiated front sight only).
 
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