Chipperman
New member
Thanks for the replies, everyone.
As always, it is interesting to see the differing points of view.
As always, it is interesting to see the differing points of view.
Night Clubs and Carrying
- Thread starter Chipperman
- Start date
Eric of IN
New member
I unload, and stash it in it's case in my truck. The local honky-tonk is the one place where I break my rule of "If I can't carry, I don't go" I don't know if it's against the law here to carry in a drinking establishment, because it's a self-imposed rule, and therefore doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Eric
Eric
FUD, you mean it's a bad idea for you and your gun to both be loaded at the same time?
pax
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"Is there anything wrong with a woman preferring the dignity of an armed citizen? I don't like to be coddled and I don't like to be treated like a minor child. So I waive immunity and claim my right -- I go armed." -- Longcourt Phyllis in Beyond This Horizon by Robert Heinlein
pax
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"Is there anything wrong with a woman preferring the dignity of an armed citizen? I don't like to be coddled and I don't like to be treated like a minor child. So I waive immunity and claim my right -- I go armed." -- Longcourt Phyllis in Beyond This Horizon by Robert Heinlein
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RikWriter:
This shows the problem with absolutes. I see no problem at all with carrying if I am having one drink with dinner at a restaurant. A better general rule would be: "If you wouldn't be legal to drive, don't carry."[/quote]
RikWriter,
I respectfully disagree. Handgun owners -- especially concealed carriers -- are currently under considerable "anti" political pressure, as we all know. I am sure we'd agree that this is as unfair as it is unfortunate. However, the fact is it exists throughout our country.
Whenever a licensed CCW holder fires in self defense, his actions will be immediately scrutinized by law enforcement and prosecutors, by the press, by politicians, and by the well-organized "anti" movement. These politically-oriented forces may well use any CCW incident as rationale to prohibit all licensed CCW. As bad as this is, it will become even worse if the CCW holder has been drinking -- yes, regrettably, even a single drink.
I am sure you can imagine the anti-created uproar -- let's ban all handguns and all CCW -- that would occur if a legal CCW holder righteously killed a felon after drinking. I am very concerned that all the "right things" -- legal CCW, no impairment due to alcohol, fired only because of direct and grave danger -- would be quickly forgotten as the media, the politicians, and the "antis" pilloried the poor CCW holder for "drinking and murdering".
Finally, even if the "one drink" CCW holder extricated himself from all these problems, his legal bills would doubtless be thousands of dollars. Is that single drink with dinner worth it?
Please understand that I fully agree with your philosophical position. The real-world consequences of drinking while carrying, however, are of major concern.
This shows the problem with absolutes. I see no problem at all with carrying if I am having one drink with dinner at a restaurant. A better general rule would be: "If you wouldn't be legal to drive, don't carry."[/quote]
RikWriter,
I respectfully disagree. Handgun owners -- especially concealed carriers -- are currently under considerable "anti" political pressure, as we all know. I am sure we'd agree that this is as unfair as it is unfortunate. However, the fact is it exists throughout our country.
Whenever a licensed CCW holder fires in self defense, his actions will be immediately scrutinized by law enforcement and prosecutors, by the press, by politicians, and by the well-organized "anti" movement. These politically-oriented forces may well use any CCW incident as rationale to prohibit all licensed CCW. As bad as this is, it will become even worse if the CCW holder has been drinking -- yes, regrettably, even a single drink.
I am sure you can imagine the anti-created uproar -- let's ban all handguns and all CCW -- that would occur if a legal CCW holder righteously killed a felon after drinking. I am very concerned that all the "right things" -- legal CCW, no impairment due to alcohol, fired only because of direct and grave danger -- would be quickly forgotten as the media, the politicians, and the "antis" pilloried the poor CCW holder for "drinking and murdering".
Finally, even if the "one drink" CCW holder extricated himself from all these problems, his legal bills would doubtless be thousands of dollars. Is that single drink with dinner worth it?
Please understand that I fully agree with your philosophical position. The real-world consequences of drinking while carrying, however, are of major concern.
Dont drink outside my home very often. I'd rather have my hair set on fire and put out with a sledge hammer than go into a night club. On the rare occasion that I will be drinking with the guys I leave my guns at home in the safe. Dont really miss the drinking parties and general stupid behavior associated with them, so this is not a difficult task for me.
RikWriter, I must respectfully disagree, re, "...never carry where alcohol is served."
As I said in my post, my wife and I have a drink before dinner, in restaurants. I carry 24/7/365. Bars and restaurants are high up on the list for bandits, because they are not only easy to rob, but, as the infamous bank robber, Willie Sutton said, when asked why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is." Lots of cash in bars and restaurants.
Unfortunately, bandits will often also start robbing the patrons, and sometimes, just start shooting them.
I have no intention of trying to break up a robbery, but if the shooting starts, I have no intention of being like the victims of the rampage in Luby's Restaurant, or in some bar robberies of which I know.
I never "booze it up" anymore, unlike in my misspent youth. Back then, I NEVER carried a gun into a bar, honky tonk, slop chute, etc.
(Of course, back in those days, I often frequented honky tonks that, when you went in, they checked you for a gun. If you didn't have one, they gave you one! Ahhh, to be young again.)
Anyway, that's what works for me. J.B.
As I said in my post, my wife and I have a drink before dinner, in restaurants. I carry 24/7/365. Bars and restaurants are high up on the list for bandits, because they are not only easy to rob, but, as the infamous bank robber, Willie Sutton said, when asked why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is." Lots of cash in bars and restaurants.
Unfortunately, bandits will often also start robbing the patrons, and sometimes, just start shooting them.
I have no intention of trying to break up a robbery, but if the shooting starts, I have no intention of being like the victims of the rampage in Luby's Restaurant, or in some bar robberies of which I know.
I never "booze it up" anymore, unlike in my misspent youth. Back then, I NEVER carried a gun into a bar, honky tonk, slop chute, etc.
(Of course, back in those days, I often frequented honky tonks that, when you went in, they checked you for a gun. If you didn't have one, they gave you one! Ahhh, to be young again.)
Anyway, that's what works for me. J.B.
Gunslinger
Moderator
I personally don't drink and others have pretty much expressed my views about not drinking and carrying.
I would like to offer one suggestion though. If you are carrying and decide to stop for a drink and stash the gun in the car do it off the parking lot. If you know you are going there stop before arriving at your designation and stick the gun away. If you find yourself on the lot politely excuse yourself and leave the lot to stash the gun and return. You don't want someone on the lot to see you stash the gun and steal once you have gone inside.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
I would like to offer one suggestion though. If you are carrying and decide to stop for a drink and stash the gun in the car do it off the parking lot. If you know you are going there stop before arriving at your designation and stick the gun away. If you find yourself on the lot politely excuse yourself and leave the lot to stash the gun and return. You don't want someone on the lot to see you stash the gun and steal once you have gone inside.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
RKW and FUD, feel free to disagree. However I have weighed the risks and WILL indeed carry legally when I have one drink with dinner. Unless it's a triple 151 shot or something, one drink will NOT significantly effect my judgement.
Jay, I think you're arguing against the wrong person, I never said I never carry where alcohol is served.
Jay, I think you're arguing against the wrong person, I never said I never carry where alcohol is served.
RikWriter, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your decision to have one drink while carrying -- I personally don't think that one drink will make that much of a difference but I do want to point out that even one drink WILL have an effect on your shooting ability. If there are programs in your area like the one that I described, try it out for yourself ... your shooting score will be lower after a drink.
I am such a lightweight. I can't drink too much anymore.
I spent a lot of time when I was younger in a haze. I didn't even own a gun then.
I have one drink with dinner while packing sometimes, but in my old age, I have gotten wiser, and I limit my intake at all times.
I don't like to lose control of my facilities anymore. Even when offered a beer after work, I decline with the explanation, "I don't drink because I have a firearm in the car, or on my person."
I think that is a fairly respected explanation.
I agree, sometimes a bar is the place you should be armed. As long as you mind your own p's and q's
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"Any world that I'm welcome to.....Is better than the one I come from"
I spent a lot of time when I was younger in a haze. I didn't even own a gun then.
I have one drink with dinner while packing sometimes, but in my old age, I have gotten wiser, and I limit my intake at all times.
I don't like to lose control of my facilities anymore. Even when offered a beer after work, I decline with the explanation, "I don't drink because I have a firearm in the car, or on my person."
I think that is a fairly respected explanation.
I agree, sometimes a bar is the place you should be armed. As long as you mind your own p's and q's
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"Any world that I'm welcome to.....Is better than the one I come from"
_If_ I were "allowed" to carry concealed here in Wis., I really believe the law should address the blood alcohol level and not the carrying in the establishment. Bars and nightclubs can be dangerous places. Better to sip a 7Up and be armed than to be blasted and unarmed. Most of the serious confrontations I've had have been in bars or clubs. Years back I got a call from my wife at 1am She had gone out with friends, got separated from them, and was facing a guy who insisted she was going to party with him at his place. When I got there, I had the pleasure of facing off against him (he had a gun in his bag) and a dozen or so of his friends. That's what CCW laws are for.
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
Gunslinger
Moderator
....he had a gun in his bag....
Monkeyleg, it weren't one of them funny clubs was it? If so perhaps he was throwing a Tupperware party and wanted your wife to attend or wanted to share decorating tips or some such.
Sorry, it just struck me as funny.
I know it was a serious situation though.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Monkeyleg, it weren't one of them funny clubs was it? If so perhaps he was throwing a Tupperware party and wanted your wife to attend or wanted to share decorating tips or some such.
Sorry, it just struck me as funny.
I know it was a serious situation though.------------------
Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Gunslinger, it was one of those "funny" clubs. But the butt on the pistol didn't look like Tupperware. The guy was a wacko. This was back when I started work at 4am, so I was really happy about getting out of bed for that b*stard. Out in the parking lot, he and his friends were throwing punches at me. I threw the car keys to my wife, who hadn't really driven much, told her to put it in reverse and floor it. I jumped in, pushed her to the passenger side and tore off. Didn't get a lot of work done that day.
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
In NM it is illegal to bring a firearm in any place that sells alcohol. I drink at home. If I am going into such a place to eat, it is either concealed or in the car.
Ed Brunner
New member
Jay Baker; Sounds like you too have been to Lawton, OK.
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
Ed Brunner, yep, been to Lawton, and a lot more of those towns in your area. Back years ago, when I was young and crazy, (I'm not young anymore) I used to rodeo. Got bucked off the bulls in Spavinaw, and Jay, and Punky Bow, a few places like that. The bulls and broncs rode me, more than I rode them and I decided raher early on there were more productive things to do.
But, ahhh,those cute little rodeo groupies after the rodeo at the honky tonks!! Made everything worth it!
Couldn't beat that with a 12 pound sledge!
J.B.
But, ahhh,those cute little rodeo groupies after the rodeo at the honky tonks!! Made everything worth it!
Couldn't beat that with a 12 pound sledge!
J.B.
Jeff Thomas
New member
I agree with Jay on this one.
I'm willing to do a lot to help the RKBA, but I'm not willing to die as a helpless victim. And, I've already considered the legal / financial implications of a self defense shooting ... I'd rather be alive than dead.
In sum, I could not watch innocent others die while realizing I could have helped ... except I chose to protect my bank account, and didn't want to further offend / aid the anti-self defense movement.
So, if I'm out with my wife, I am the designated driver. I may have a drink, and it may slightly degrade my shooting ability. But if there is a self defense situation (e.g. Luby's, bandits shooting patrons, etc.), I'd rather have a slim chance of stopping bloodshed than no chance. Remember ... we're not talking about being Rambo because a guy is holding the place up. I'm talking about a BG that has already started shooting people.
Glad to hear of Utah's PUI (possession under the influence) law ... IMHO, that is the wisest course.
Regards from AZ
I'm willing to do a lot to help the RKBA, but I'm not willing to die as a helpless victim. And, I've already considered the legal / financial implications of a self defense shooting ... I'd rather be alive than dead.
In sum, I could not watch innocent others die while realizing I could have helped ... except I chose to protect my bank account, and didn't want to further offend / aid the anti-self defense movement.
So, if I'm out with my wife, I am the designated driver. I may have a drink, and it may slightly degrade my shooting ability. But if there is a self defense situation (e.g. Luby's, bandits shooting patrons, etc.), I'd rather have a slim chance of stopping bloodshed than no chance. Remember ... we're not talking about being Rambo because a guy is holding the place up. I'm talking about a BG that has already started shooting people.
Glad to hear of Utah's PUI (possession under the influence) law ... IMHO, that is the wisest course.
Regards from AZ
Some places have laws concerining firearms and places of "public assembly". Perhaps this could apply to night clubs and such in some cases.
The nature of night clubs like many other establishments, creates an increased risk to personal safety. Drinking and the concentration of people are probably the main factors. Most fights I have seen have been in these places, often for silly reasons, for example, some guy's wife wears some really skimpy outfit and then he gets POed and wants to kick some a** when someone else looks at her.
By visiting a night club, a person could be at slightly more risk than not being present there. It is not necessarily wrong to go. So, should a person not go to a night club to avoid the "risk"? Or should taking additional precautions, such as being armed (if sober), be the solution?
Some will say to just not go since there is a "risk" and one will just be putting him in that situation, but we also put ourselves in more "danger" anytime we leave our homes and go out in public. Locking one's self up in their home 24/7 isn't the answer either.
Any thoughts on this?
The nature of night clubs like many other establishments, creates an increased risk to personal safety. Drinking and the concentration of people are probably the main factors. Most fights I have seen have been in these places, often for silly reasons, for example, some guy's wife wears some really skimpy outfit and then he gets POed and wants to kick some a** when someone else looks at her.
By visiting a night club, a person could be at slightly more risk than not being present there. It is not necessarily wrong to go. So, should a person not go to a night club to avoid the "risk"? Or should taking additional precautions, such as being armed (if sober), be the solution?
Some will say to just not go since there is a "risk" and one will just be putting him in that situation, but we also put ourselves in more "danger" anytime we leave our homes and go out in public. Locking one's self up in their home 24/7 isn't the answer either.
Any thoughts on this?