NICS does not need your SSN

H

HukeOKC

New member
We sold a rifle to a guy this weekend and he did not provide his social on the 4473. He had one and even showed us his card but he refused to put it on the form.

We got a "Delayed" response but the next day we received a "proceed" and he came back in and finished the transaction.

So for those of you who want to play with em a little bit, don't provide your SSN. Of course I think your dealer still has the choice of whether or not to allow the sale but I doubt they will give you too much hastle.
 
You'd be quite surprised at just how many things you can do WITHOUT giving your SSN.

I don't have a connecting link, but I read somewhere that it is considered a FELONY for anyone but the Social Security Administration to require you to provide a SSN. Be nice to see that statute again.

Your SSN is nothing but a federal identification number in a federal database, which links to everything you do, so long as you provide it.
 
PriVacy Act or 1974 (or is it '76) pretty clearly states the stuff you must provide aSSN for. It's a pretty short list, mostly tax and or banking, but the stqates can't require it for driver's licenses, etc. Anyone got a link for teh text of the law??
m2
 
However there is now a Federal law that requires all states to include your SS # on new driver's licenses. You are warned by just about everybody not to give out your SS# and other personal information because of ID thieft, now the Feds want you to provide your SS# and DOB and address and what else is on your DL to any clerk that needs to look at the license to cash a check or the puke that steals your wallet.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Never give out your SSN. It must be given to your employer or the lottery commission for tax purposes, and you must provide it to any bank or brokerage house for tax purpose. If you want credit you will need to provide it. The Privacy Act of 1974 prohibits govt bodies from requesting it. I have always refused to give it on 4473 and the old Brady background white sheets and for license plates and drivers licenses. With the increase in child support enforcement the states have asked for it, but if you refuse I just told them I would give them a fake one or go to Oklahoma and get a renewal on the old one. It is a pain and there are some papers to fill out, in Texas you have to go to the DPS office, but it can be done. Another one is insurance carriers for health insurance. NEVER give them a valid SSN. That is how they track your medical records and if you get cancer and have your insurance cancelled you will never be able to get health insurance again. Since they went computerized they try to use the SSN to track with, before they would call your doctor, not anymore.
 
I wonder if there's any way to get a new SS#.

Before I knew any better I would write it on any form that asked for it.
Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Yes, I have stopped putting it on anything except tax-related stuff, but it will always be out there.
Which makes me kinda nervous.

If you legally change your name do you get a new number?

I realize that the Gubmint would still have it linked in some database with your old number, but at least all the cashiers, clerks and trash-divers wouldn't have a valid number anymore.

Any comments?
-Kframe
 
Well I got a real shock last week when I went to purchase a Glock 19 here in CA. Hadn't made any purchases this year and apparently there have been some changes. The CA DOJ, as of 1/1/2000 require the SSN on the back ground check form. (remember that here in CA ALL hand guns are supposed to be registered) The store even showed me the letter from the DOJ when I questioned them doing this despite the sign on the wall. They said they could not do the check without it.

In addition, a drivers license, though unexpired, is no longer valid for the back ground check if the address permantly printed on it is not one's current address. A change of address sticker that the DMV gives out to stick on the back of the license is not acceptable. An unexpired vehicle registration with current address can be used, with the DL as the photo ID, to prove residence.
 
42USC(a)(8) states: Whoever discloses, uses, or compels the disclosure of the Social Security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United States, shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

Guys copy an print this and carry it with you. I show it to everyone that asks for it and they say "oh I didn't know that".

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
 
In Il they ask you if you want it on your DL or not. I always tell them not to. Some places used to require it if you wanted to cash a check, but that has stopped. The doctor's office asked for it once for their records, but I refused to give it to them. It is part of my health insurance number though. One of these days I plan on calling the insurance company and ask them to change it.
 
I completely disagree with the statement that you NEED it to acquire credit.

About 3 months ago I applied via mail for a MAJOR bank's airline mileage credit card and DID NOT PROVIDE the SSN. Of course about 10 days after I applied they sent me a letter saying that the application was pending my SSN. I called and bitched. They claimed they needed it to verify my true identity.

I could see that could be the case if my name was John Smith or something that common, but I asked them to check to see just how many Paul Revere's could live at my address. Their D&B or similar credit check using my name and address obviously verified the information they needed, because about 2 weeks later I got the credit card with a $5,000 credit line in the mail...without using the SSN!!!
 
Wow Paul that is something. All the credit reporting agencies use the SSN, didn't know that they would approve it without it.

Ptfndr, go to the local FBI office and file a complaint against the state of Ca. for violation of the Privacy Act. The SS Administration was quite helpful in citing number and verse of the law when I encountered an Asst U.S. DA in Ft Worth who did not know what I was talking about. Terrible to have to tell someone else how to do their job, but as a result I got what I wanted and hopefully he learned something. It is a federal offense. There is a web site with the text of the law and the valid reasons for giving a SSN to a govt agency. I believe that there are 23 valid reasons and they are for taxes, medicaid, medicare, and other federal programs.
 
That code quote doesn't help. It states "in violation of the laws of the United States," but doesn't specify what those laws are.
 
Paul -

Nice idea, but...

Once you give them your name, address and any other info needed to identify you, they pick up your SSAN from any number of databases available to them. Your SSAN is, without any doubt whatsoever, a part of that credit file and will be used for reporting purposes, with or without your consent.

Read your credit app carefully; there is a statement there in which you give them this privilege.
 
You were lucky, Paul! It's true though, what Cobra said. Once they had your name and addy, they could easily get your SSN. There are databases out there that companies can access where all they need is your name and address, and they can get your SSN, it's called a "SSN Search." I used to do it for people who were victims of fraud so we could find their CR's.

I used to work for TRW/Experian, the largest credit bureau in the world. Because they had so many problems with people's credit reports getting mixed up (because there are so many Smith's, Jones', Gonzalez's, Ramirez's etc) they started requiring us to get SSNs before we could access people's credit reports. They have over 300 million people in their database, so just typing in "Joe Blow at 123 Anywhere ST Everywhere USA" could easily cause several Joe Blows to end up on 1 credit rpt.

Oh, and No, you can't get a new SSN. Once you have it, the number stays with you until you die (even after!). If you change names, you just get the name changed on the card.

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"At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Gun-Grabbers, at last we shall have revenge at The TFL End of Summer Meet on August 12 & 13, 2000..."

[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited June 06, 2000).]
 
The federal paperwork asks for the ss#, indicating that furnishing same is optional. In PA, the state forms require the ss#.

My old ss card says the following, in bold face type, "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFIACTION". Later versions I've seen, mine dates from 1948 stated FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION.

Seems as if something, somewhere has "gotten lost in the translation", to say the very least. Didn't the bible say something about "they shall be branded ..."?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim V:
However there is now a Federal law that requires all states to include your SS # on new driver's licenses.[/quote]

Um, not sure this is actually the case any more. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I *believe* that this had to do with the new
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Federal Work Permit Identification System that Clinton wanted to set up, and the Republicans, in yet another
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Amazing Moment of Weakness, agreed to it and passed it into law in the mid-90s. However, I also think that they repealed this particular part of the law in either '98 or '99 out of privacy concerns.

At least, when I renewed my DL here in good 'ol Jawjah last week, I didn't have to supply my SSN, and it isn't printed on my new license either.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>NICS does not need your SSN[/quote]

This I already knew. So far, on my only gun purchase I did not include my SSN on the form. Dealer didn't even blink. The Georgia system had been down earlier that day and there was an application backlog, which delayed my permission slip for a couple of hours, but I doubt it had anything to do with the missing SSN.

Can't wait to have enough money to buy another gun, also without supplying my SSN.
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"There's not much comfort in the fact that crime is down 6 percent. So instead of 100 criminals targeting you, now there are only 94. Whoop-dee-doo." -- Paxton Quigley
 
I have never put my ssan on a 4473. I had one dealer try to give me grief about it, said ATF was "requiring" it. I turned and walked away. He called me back, wrote "customer refused" in the space and sold me the gun.

Screw'em.

Hawk
 
Hey, new smilies.

Ok Papercut give them up. :) (because that is the about the only one I know :D (hey, another one))
 
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