Newby here...need advice.

arcticap said:
Buying a rifle is a fairly personal choice that's based on preferences, how the gun fits, features and of course the price too.
I've been eyeing that laminated Traditions Hawken for a long time and it's a great deal. I already have a Traditions Deer hunter with a nickel barrel that I really like. The electro nickel is very slick and durable.
However what I don't really like are double triggers.
So I'm fine with the Deer hunter which cost me a lot less at the time as well.
Sportsman's Guide sells it for $215 and what's given up is the laminated stock, double triggers and 2 inches of barrel length.
Like folks have said, a lot of money doesn't need to be spent to have a good time shooting muzzle loaders.
The 1 in 48" twist is better for shooting conicals or saboted bullets once in a while. The trade off is that the medium twist is only accurate to moderate distances with patched round ball unless a very good load is worked up.
The Lyman rifles are better quality guns, but the GPR is not for everyone either as far as it's fit, length and weight. I didn't care much for the higher price or the rear sight on the Great Plains Rifle either. I'd rather be able to buy two muzzle loaders for the price of one unless it's something that I really want to spend the money on.
The GPR will definitely shoot more accurately out to 100 yards with round ball. And I do like the Lyman Trade Rifle a little bit better with the single trigger, 28" barrel and lower price. But it doesn't have adjustable sights which is just another personal preference.
I don't care much for shooting 100 yards with open sights. At that range, I usually shoot guns that have scopes, or at least guns that have a rear peep sight. Once in a while I will but not primarily. For me, shooting targets at 50 yards is more typical with a muzzle loader.


Nickel Traditions Deer hunter:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/...oader-black-stock-nickel-barrel.aspx?a=264881

Lyman Trade Rifle:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156032125

And the Cabela's Hawken is also made by Investarms, the same maker as Lyman and it's on sale right now for $399.88 with free shipping!

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104641380

Lyman Great Plains Rifle and more:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=MUZZLELOADERS&dept2=RIFLE
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I also saw that bass pro is offering a traditions springfield hawken for around $320. How does this compare? Their 6 pay offer is tempting, but the other rifles seem much nicer.
Also, can you elaborate more on barrel twist and uses? I'm also wanting to get into one and am very confused.
Is there any good sites that have a breakdown of some of this info? I would also love to know more about .50 cal vs. .54 cal
 
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Well...

First, Chicken McNasty, you're out of luck on me helping you out. I don't know any more and probably less than you about this "holy smoke" game. But I have found folks involved in several of the discussion forums about it to be helpful. Make an original post of the questions you have and put 'er out there...you'll get some answers...do a "google" search and find several different forums and get a wider spread of information. That'll give you aplenty to work with.


So, second...I let ya'll talk me into "lowering" my "standards" a bit and looking used but better quality-wise. Glad I did....in my original post I said I leaned a little more to the more "traditional" smoke-poles and I think about 4 or 5 of you all recommended the Lyman Great Plains Rifle and some on another site added the T/C Hawken to my list.
So I spent some time looking the day before and yesterday. Found a bunch out there...lots way too high for what they were...some fair priced, but already being dickered over..and finally THE ONE, on another muzzleloading discussion forum, in the "for sale" section. Seller appeared to be asking a fairly reasonable price relative to what I saw in the ad and pictures and the rifle was pretty much what I had set out to find.
Contacted the seller by e-mail. The rifle is 3 years old..shot some, but not a whole bunch. Clean, bright barrel and one single flaw (some corrosion on the brass tip of the original ramrod). Otherwise she looks "handled" but very good. Got some more pics from the seller last night. Then asked him to call me, which he did this morning.

Well, we got to talking small talk a bit and his first name is same as mine. His last name is same as my mother's maiden name. He lives in a little town in east TN, where I happened to live for a couple years as a small boy. In fact I have a younger brother and sister who were born there....small world ain't it?

So anyhow, I asked him a few questions...he answered satisfactorily. Then I explained how I was interested in His .54 cal GPR and how I had decided to figure out a fair offer to make him and how I came up with the number, which was just a couple bucks more than the Traditions I had originally been eye-balling. Hit him with the offer and he accepted it. We agreed on the "arrangements" for payment, shipping, etc.
I got to go to the bank and get a Certified check today and send it to him. I got me a Lyman Great Plains Rifle caplock in .54 caliber coming upon his receipt of that check.

Now y'all need to start sending me some suggestions for a name for her.

And getting all the "accoutrements" will be easier if y'all would get specific 'bout brand names and sources. ...and...you know better than me.

...y'all have already helped me out and got me in a fine fix now. Since y'all "instigated" now you got to help keep me in line...You voluntarily entered into a contractual obligation by giving me "good" advice that got me saddled with a new-to-me smokepole..now you are obligated to continue the assistance so I don't mess 'er up....Y'all get started....
 
naming your rifle

I think I will go with what we Marines in our riding clubs do.
You name it your self (we derive our own nicknames)
Or the group gives you one. In our case you get named
"House Mouse" a carry over from Vietnam dys.
And of course you assume all the duties, cleaning and scrubbing etc.
My .50 is 1/2 way
Halfway to a 100
 
:D:D Ain't it funny how things work out??

Happy for ya...

... and will uphold my end of the commitment to you as best I can but right now, 'momma' is on her way home from work(since I'm retired,somebodies gotta do it;)) and I'm fixin supper and want to have it ready when she gets home.

My 27yr.old commitment to her, supersedes your and my commitment as the benefits of her and my commitment far outweight the benefits of yours and mine.;)

Gotta run!
 
OvertheHill said:
Now y'all need to start sending me some suggestions for a name for her.
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Congratulations on finding the good 'ole gal "Becky" for a soul mate.
She says that her formal name is Rebecca, but to just call her Becky for short.
And that if you call her by her formal name then she'll think that you're getting curt with her! :)
 
chickenmcnasty said:
I also saw that bass pro is offering a traditions springfield hawken for around $320. How does this compare? Their 6 pay offer is tempting, but the other rifles seem much nicer.
Also, can you elaborate more on barrel twist and uses? I'm also wanting to get into one and am very confused.
Is there any good sites that have a breakdown of some of this info? I would also love to know more about .50 cal vs. .54 cal
Click to expand...

The Springfield Hawken is a lot like the laminated Traditions Hawken Woodsman except that it has a single trigger and a wood stock. They can sometimes be found used for under $200 which means that they lose value quickly after their initial purchase because they've been made in one form or another for the last 20 years or more.

The 1 in 28" to 1 in 38" fast twist barrels are primarily for shooting bore size conical bullets or saboted bullets.

The 1 in 48" medium twist barrels can shoot both round balls, conicals and saboted bullets accurately anywhere from 60 - 100 yards with a heavy hunting load.
One fellow who built a .54 Traditions Deer hunter from a kit put a scope on it and found that it really liked shooting conicals and sabots way better than it would shoot patched round balls. So some 1 in 48" barrels will shoot conicals really great while conversely others will only prefer round balls. You never know which projectiles a medium twist will shoot better with the heavy powder charges that are used for hunting.

The 1 in 59" to 1 in 72" slow twist barrels are primarily for shooting patched round balls out to about 100 yards. But they usually require heavier powder charges for best accuracy, especially at longer range.
They can sometimes shoot only the shortest and lightest lead conical bullets at a limited range of 60 -70 yards at the most, which are the Buffalo Ball-et conicals or Hornady PA conicals. Some slow twist barrels will shoot these short light weight bullets and others simply won't.

One needs to experiment to find out what their rifle likes and there are always exceptions to the basic rules about barrel twist rates and which projectiles that they will shoot accurately and out to what distance.
Target loads have light powder charges which can be more accurate, while hunting loads need to have more powder for better penetration on deer size animals. So the amount of powder and type of projectile definitely affects accuracy.
 
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I was going to advise you get a .50 cal, as the .54 boolits are right spendy ..... .50 conicals are bad enough! I oughta start castin' at the price Cabela's and the LGS's are askin'!!!!!! ...... but you already went with the .54......
 
Some responses

JimBob...I went with the 54 on purpose. I live reasonably close to the LBJ National Grasslands (30-40 minute drive) run by the US Forest Service(most years the place is teeming with deer and wild turkey, plus lots of cottontail and squirrel, quail, dove, etc.) Folks can hunt there with a Texas Hunting License during the regular seasons (with local County limits, if any...in this County its 2 bucks plus 2 anterless deer in total, all categories/seasons combined; archery, gun, special spike/anterless week after regular gun season ends) established by Texas Parks and Wildlife, with the limitation that it is shotgun or muzzleloader only (plus archery, of course) and you hafta wear all that purdy bright orange stuff that ain't required on private land ('course early in the season, I don't go there...too many Elmer Fudds hootin' and hollerin' around; late in the season it gets real cold, for Texas, and they stay home). No centerfire/rimfire. Since its in the "Cross Timbers" region of Texas, you have some rolling plains, creek bottoms, hardwood stands, thickets, etc. So typical ranges for shots at deer, for instance, could range from close enough to almost touch 'em out to way over 100 yards (not that I'd be likely to take such long shots...I figure up to 75-100 yards depending on all the factors would be my likely limit). The wise and kind folks on this site (and a couple others) have "informed" me through their posts that the 54 would get me a better spread of ranges where I could be effective (assuming I do the stuff I'm supposed to right). Also, I'll likely end up casting my own round balls...down the road a short ways.

Arcticap...thanks for the suggestion...think I'll think 'bout it a little longer...after I shoot 'er a bit, before I name her. Might wind up having to call her sumpin' I can't put in here, if you get my drift....

DD4life...I was in the USAF Security Police in Thailand (Takh-li and Korat) in '73-'74...we were the "zoomies" infantry... securing the airfield perimeters, etc...
and I know whereof you speak 'bout the "House Mouse" and duties...knew before I bought one I'd be the one doin' all the pot-scrubbin'. hahahaa...been there before...

To all: Thank you all very much for the warm and helpful welcome. Hope I can get pretty good at this and maybe "pass it along" some day...
 
thanks for the suggestion...think I'll think 'bout it a little longer...after I shoot 'er a bit, before I name her. Might wind up having to call her sumpin' I can't put in here, if you get my drift....
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You do your part and I'd almost guarantee you, you'll name her somethin as sweet as candy. Just remember, findin out what she likes is half the fun.

Go huntin and do somethin like let her powder get damp, when that trophy buck walks by and you hear nothin but your primer goin off...well...you'll name her all kind of baaaaddd things. :D It just won't be her fault.

Speakin of which, after she lets you know what load she likes and you and her are on a date at your fav. deer stand, if it's raining, a piece of tape or a balloon over the muzzle works wonders at helping to keep moisture out of the bbl.
Too, I don't like taking my bp rifle or powder in the house every night during our bp deer hunting season. It's usually cold here and bringing it in a warm house is a sure way to create condensation. Once I take her out, she stays in the garage till close of season. I load my speed loaders and they stay outside as well.

Also remember, if your rifle is cold and you throw it in a heated car/behind seat of truck for the trip home...more condensation. Either put it in trunk or in bed of truck.

If I'm hunting in rainy damp weather, the load comes out every evening ( via air blown through nipple from air compressor...bullet blown into rag box in garage so it doesn't get deformed) the bore is swabbed with a dry patch and left in garage. The next morning, another swabbing with a dry patch, she's loaded and I'm off.

One more thing, check your laws as to what your state considers to be a loaded bp rifle.

In this state, I can load my bp rifle and as long as it's uncapped(no primer on nipple) I can transport rifle in vehicle, ATV etc.
 
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Sorta like that, or maybe sumpin' similar down the road...

Shortwave, I kinda like that "Candy"...or maybe sumpin' similar...we'll see, but gives me an idee beyond just girls names, anyhow....

Naah, I know when to cuss the right party to blame for not thinkin'. Rifles don't think, they just do exactly what you tell 'em to, if'n you use their right language...if'n you don't...that's your fault.

Here in Texas, muzzleloaders are considered "not loaded" 'til they're primed. By Parks and Wildlife game wardens, anyhow...what some other Police/Deputy/Trooper might think 'bout that is a different story maybe. And every shootin' range has a different idea from any of those likely as not, tho' I haven't seen them x-ray anybody's gun going in yet....

And I like to still hunt, tho as I get older and the arthritis gets worse in my hips and legs and back, its slower and I pick my way different than I used to do. Still, I'm not above taking a spot on the ground and "stand" hunting , if I see the right set of "indicators"....heavily used trail, freshscrapes and rubs...good feed and water close plus some thick cover for bedding down....yep...I'll stand there a while, right time of day....

Your procedures are nearly same as I already do with my CF rifles on hunting trips...if I'm going back out next day, they stay in the cold. Though they are unloaded completely while transporting...but the ammo also stays in the cold as well...don't mess with Mother Nature...warming up cold guns and ammo causes the possibility of condensation, even if temporary....best not to....thanks for the advice....
 
OTH/shortwave

Wow OTH.. excellent post! I loved,
"Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood.--John Adams
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shortwave, your advice is outstanding. Been doin' this a while eh? :D

B
 
Thanks Birch

But Mr. Adams gets all the credit for that oratory. You can find a bunch of other of Our Founding Father's statements/theories/philosophies here:

http://patriotpost.us/quotes

Very enlightening place, that one...and shortwave has been helpful...as have many others...

I'm very grateful...and can't think of any way to "pa it back" except "pay it forward" as I gain in knowledge and experience in this "new-to-me" sport.
 
Indeed, our founding fathers had wisdom far beyond what is common knowledge with most people today. I'm very familiar with most of their quotes/thoughts/ideas and am a life-long student of it.

Glad you've "found a home" here, and like you, I look forward to seeing what other members have to say on this forum. Glad you are with us. :D

Best part is... you're on a journey that will never end. Embrace it and enjoy friend!

B
 
shortwave, your advice is outstanding. Been doin' this a while eh?
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Hey...even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. ;)

Thanks for the nice compliment. Been shooting bp for about 43yrs. But I can tell you that there are much more knowledgeable people here then I.

I don't think there is a bp question out there that somebody here doesn't have a great answer to. What tops that off is they will freely share their thoughts with you.

Welcome to the madness!
 
I stand corrected!

Hawg & SW are correct. I should have been more careful in selecting my words.

Guilty as charged. :D

B
 
She's here....

She came in the mail 2 days ago....got her unpacked...This is a fine rifle....better than the pictures.
The seller told me he had bought her from one of the on-line shops (don't know if I'm allowed to name them? so I won't)...anyhow the first rifle that came with his order didn't pass muster, so he sent it back...talked to someone there on the phone. Somehow he got the guy interested in doing some real "customer service". Guy calls him back later..says he went through all of them they had in stock (over a dozen) and hand-selected one he thought would do. Sent the replacement.
And that's what I just got. Excellent fit and finish, beautiful, nicely grained dark-colored stock...very, very nice looking rifle for a mass-produced gun. She's in perfect shape, obviously well-maintained, and almost broke-in with about 100 rounds through her. Doesn't look like it was shot hardly at all. And just one flaw. The original ramrod has a corroded spot on the "ram" end. Seller told me he didn't use the original ramrod, but had used a "replacement" synthetic rod. The original sat in the box and got that spot on it. Other than that, this rifle doesn't have a fingerprint, nick, smudge, scratch or ding anywhere.
And she took a nice big Ohio buck last year, so she's already "blooded". He used .530 round ball and .018 pillow-ticking lubed patch over 85 gr. of Pyrodex RS and shot sub-2" groups at 100 yards with her.

I've been doing some "shopping" around and got me a couple lists of "accoutrements" going...but most will have to wait a few weeks while my wallet recovers a bit. Still, I got her for just a few dollars more than what I was thinking of paying for that new Traditions originally...Y'all's advice turned out really, really well. And I thank all of you for it.

Cain't hardly wait to get the stuff so I can shoot her...and I can do that in my back-yard once I have some "holy black" and the stuff to clean her with.
Wooo-hoooo....:D
 
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